As far as I know this naming pattern (using the mother's father's first name as the middle name for the mother's child, for boys), has been around for some time. While middle names are not normally recorded I have found them popping up now and then. My GGGrandfather's (Robert Black) was born in 1822 in Ramsay Township, Bathurst District, Upper Canada. He married in 1848 and had two sons. The second son was named after his father. However, only in his obituary seventy five years later is he listed as Robert "J." Black. The "J." I have determined stood for John - the first name of little Robert's mother's father - John McPhee. This Robert John Black had many sons himself, and one was named John Caldwell Black. "Caldwell" was the family name of his mother - Mary Caldwell. This pattern of naming a son with a middle name that matches his mother's father's name, seems to pop up in Irish families and Scottish families. Dean -----Original Message----- From: Sheena Jones [mailto:sheenafjones@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: August 1, 2004 6:00 PM To: Dean Black; DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns This pattern is new to me. Could you tell us which part of the world they lived in? Also which centuries it covered? Sheena ----- Original Message ----- From: Dean Black <dcblack@sympatico.ca> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 3:02 PM Subject: RE: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > Hello, Has this (very interesting) thread of e-mails discussing naming > conventions yet addressed middle names? My research into my family tree has > uncovered a consistent habit of naming the first born son after his mother's > father - where the family middle name is concerned. For example, my father's > name Noel Ernest Black reflects his mother's (Marcelle Gauthier) father's > (Ernest Gauthier) name. Noel's father - Clayton Thomas Black - derives the > name Thomas from his mother's (Elizabeth Wren) father's (Thomas Wren) name. > Any perspectives listers might have on this aspect of naming patterns would > be most appreciated. I should add that this pattern is followed without fail > for seven generations until it breaks down owing to the early death of one > man and an early death of another's wife such that he remarries. Where > children lose a father very early on in life the naming pattern is lost, or > so it would seem. Thank you for any information others might be able to > provide. > > Dean > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Ritchie [mailto:iritchie1@iprimus.com.au] > Sent: August 1, 2004 7:24 AM > To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > Thankyou all for the feedback. It appears that my theory is at least > possible. I don't really have a possible first son's birth or death but was > just checking that it was a possiblility. I'm looking for parents for my > Walter Ritchie (b.circa 1796) and,with no obvious standout > possibilities,began to look at other scenarios. I found possible parents who > would fill the criteria as far as the other children of Walter & Martha were > concerned providing I made the assumption that a first son had been born and > then,conveniently,died. I know,it's the old long bow again and I've changed > the string more than once already but at least I'm still aiming at the same > target. > Incidentally how do illegitimate children figure in this naming scheme? > e.g.If Martha had a child before she married Walter,and to a different > father, is it still child number one? or only as far as Martha is concerned? > Sorry about that last query - I know I'm pushing my luck. > > Ian Ritchie > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join > CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > ______________________________

Dean, Have the same in my Scots (Dunlop) family and Welsh (Hughes) family where the mother's maiden name was given to one of the children as their middle name..... Jerri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Black" <dcblack@sympatico.ca> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 5:23 PM Subject: RE: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > As far as I know this naming pattern (using the mother's father's first name > as the middle name for the mother's child, for boys), has been around for > some time. While middle names are not normally recorded I have found them > popping up now and then. My GGGrandfather's (Robert Black) was born in 1822 > in Ramsay Township, Bathurst District, Upper Canada. He married in 1848 and > had two sons. The second son was named after his father. However, only in > his obituary seventy five years later is he listed as Robert "J." Black. The > "J." I have determined stood for John - the first name of little Robert's > mother's father - John McPhee. This Robert John Black had many sons himself, > and one was named John Caldwell Black. "Caldwell" was the family name of his > mother - Mary Caldwell. This pattern of naming a son with a middle name that > matches his mother's father's name, seems to pop up in Irish families and > Scottish families. > > Dean > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sheena Jones [mailto:sheenafjones@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: August 1, 2004 6:00 PM > To: Dean Black; DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > This pattern is new to me. Could you tell us which part of the world they > lived in? Also which centuries it covered? > > Sheena > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dean Black <dcblack@sympatico.ca> > To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 3:02 PM > Subject: RE: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > > Hello, Has this (very interesting) thread of e-mails discussing naming > > conventions yet addressed middle names? My research into my family tree > has > > uncovered a consistent habit of naming the first born son after his > mother's > > father - where the family middle name is concerned. For example, my > father's > > name Noel Ernest Black reflects his mother's (Marcelle Gauthier) father's > > (Ernest Gauthier) name. Noel's father - Clayton Thomas Black - derives the > > name Thomas from his mother's (Elizabeth Wren) father's (Thomas Wren) > name. > > Any perspectives listers might have on this aspect of naming patterns > would > > be most appreciated. I should add that this pattern is followed without > fail > > for seven generations until it breaks down owing to the early death of one > > man and an early death of another's wife such that he remarries. Where > > children lose a father very early on in life the naming pattern is lost, > or > > so it would seem. Thank you for any information others might be able to > > provide. > > > > Dean > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ian Ritchie [mailto:iritchie1@iprimus.com.au] > > Sent: August 1, 2004 7:24 AM > > To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > > > > Thankyou all for the feedback. It appears that my theory is at least > > possible. I don't really have a possible first son's birth or death but > was > > just checking that it was a possiblility. I'm looking for parents for my > > Walter Ritchie (b.circa 1796) and,with no obvious standout > > possibilities,began to look at other scenarios. I found possible parents > who > > would fill the criteria as far as the other children of Walter & Martha > were > > concerned providing I made the assumption that a first son had been born > and > > then,conveniently,died. I know,it's the old long bow again and I've > changed > > the string more than once already but at least I'm still aiming at the > same > > target. > > Incidentally how do illegitimate children figure in this naming scheme? > > e.g.If Martha had a child before she married Walter,and to a different > > father, is it still child number one? or only as far as Martha is > concerned? > > Sorry about that last query - I know I'm pushing my luck. > > > > Ian Ritchie > > > > > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join > > CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > > ______________________________ > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join > CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > >

My father, the eldest of his family, was stuck with the middle name Humphries and as far as the world at large knew his name was Douglas H. Paterson. We kids knew what the H stood for - Mom must have told us - but never why. It was only when I started doing Family research and put a direct question to Dad that he told me it was his paternal grandmother's maiden name. Later I found one of Dad's Uncles named Colin McArthur Paterson. A short while later I found a William Paterson marriage to Helen McArthur and knew I had the right record. This couple were the grandparents of Colin McArthur. One of William and Helen's sons had the middle name Alexander...a common enough name, right...but also, it turns out, the maiden name of Helen's mother! Cheers! Malcolm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Black" <dcblack@sympatico.ca> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: RE: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > As far as I know this naming pattern (using the mother's father's first name > as the middle name for the mother's child, for boys), has been around for > some time. While middle names are not normally recorded I have found them > popping up now and then. My GGGrandfather's (Robert Black) was born in 1822 > in Ramsay Township, Bathurst District, Upper Canada. He married in 1848 and > had two sons. The second son was named after his father. However, only in > his obituary seventy five years later is he listed as Robert "J." Black. The > "J." I have determined stood for John - the first name of little Robert's > mother's father - John McPhee. This Robert John Black had many sons himself, > and one was named John Caldwell Black. "Caldwell" was the family name of his > mother - Mary Caldwell. This pattern of naming a son with a middle name that > matches his mother's father's name, seems to pop up in Irish families and > Scottish families. > > Dean > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sheena Jones [mailto:sheenafjones@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: August 1, 2004 6:00 PM > To: Dean Black; DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > This pattern is new to me. Could you tell us which part of the world they > lived in? Also which centuries it covered? > > Sheena > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dean Black <dcblack@sympatico.ca> > To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 3:02 PM > Subject: RE: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > > Hello, Has this (very interesting) thread of e-mails discussing naming > > conventions yet addressed middle names? My research into my family tree > has > > uncovered a consistent habit of naming the first born son after his > mother's > > father - where the family middle name is concerned. For example, my > father's > > name Noel Ernest Black reflects his mother's (Marcelle Gauthier) father's > > (Ernest Gauthier) name. Noel's father - Clayton Thomas Black - derives the > > name Thomas from his mother's (Elizabeth Wren) father's (Thomas Wren) > name. > > Any perspectives listers might have on this aspect of naming patterns > would > > be most appreciated. I should add that this pattern is followed without > fail > > for seven generations until it breaks down owing to the early death of one > > man and an early death of another's wife such that he remarries. Where > > children lose a father very early on in life the naming pattern is lost, > or > > so it would seem. Thank you for any information others might be able to > > provide. > > > > Dean > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ian Ritchie [mailto:iritchie1@iprimus.com.au] > > Sent: August 1, 2004 7:24 AM > > To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > > > > Thankyou all for the feedback. It appears that my theory is at least > > possible. I don't really have a possible first son's birth or death but > was > > just checking that it was a possiblility. I'm looking for parents for my > > Walter Ritchie (b.circa 1796) and,with no obvious standout > > possibilities,began to look at other scenarios. I found possible parents > who > > would fill the criteria as far as the other children of Walter & Martha > were > > concerned providing I made the assumption that a first son had been born > and > > then,conveniently,died. I know,it's the old long bow again and I've > changed > > the string more than once already but at least I'm still aiming at the > same > > target. > > Incidentally how do illegitimate children figure in this naming scheme? > > e.g.If Martha had a child before she married Walter,and to a different > > father, is it still child number one? or only as far as Martha is > concerned? > > Sorry about that last query - I know I'm pushing my luck. > > > > Ian Ritchie > > > > > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join > > CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > > ______________________________ > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join > CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > >