The scope of 'The' National Archives can be ambiguous. Remember that Scotland has its own national archive, the National Archives of Scotland: http://www.nas.gov.uk/ Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: "Celia Renshaw" <celia@morganhold.com> To: "'Neil Beattie'" <neil@clueful.co.uk>; "'D&G Mailing List'" <dumfries-galloway@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] !851 Church Census > > I had a feeling that the 1851 Religious Census was only for England and > Wales so I went hunting online - frustratingly, and so typically of the > English, the articles I checked don't state OUTRIGHT that Scotland wasn't > included but the list of areas covered in the following Wikipedia article > does not include anywhere in Scotland, so I guess, we're out of luck for > Kirkcudbright: > > http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Some_Notes_on_th > e_1851_Religious_Census_with_a_Summary_of_the_Roman_Catholic_Returns > > Cheers > Celia Renshaw > in Chesterfield UK > > PS I'm half Scots, half English so I feel I can be rude or complimentary > about both!! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dumfries-galloway-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:dumfries-galloway-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Neil Beattie > Sent: 23 November 2008 13:05 > To: D&G Mailing List > Subject: Re: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] !851 Church Census > > Hi Jody > This church census is new to me but may be very useful. I'm aware of the > national census which took place in 1851 but not one udertaken by the > church. Was there a special one for Kircudbright burgh itself? > Neil > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1806 - Release Date: 22/11/2551 18:59

> Can some kind soul please direct me as to how I might go > about finding out what Army unit my step Dad served with and his service # > and possibly records please? Last week I called Glasgow Army Personnel > Centre and have just received a parcel full of numerous forms to fill in > and > it says any request may take 8 months to respond and cost 30 pounds plus > if > they find his details, it will also take days to fill in all these forms? I recently obtained the Service Record of my Grandfather. I completed the forms, which didn't take that long, under an hour as I had access to the details needed. I enclosed a copy of his death certificate and that of my Grandmother and asked my Mum to sign the relevent paperwork (as last surviving next of kin) and enclosed a cheque. I also enclosed a photocopy from his service pay book with his service number. That was on 23rd Sep. On 2nd Oct I received a letter advising that the estimated time to wait would be about four months - estimated to Jan 2009. I was surprised when on 11th October Mum telephoned to say that the record had arrived. I guess the 8 months quoted is dependant on how much details you can provide. By enclosing copies of the death certificates it speeded up the process. At the moment I am plotting my Grandfather's military time and am in the process of creating a blog! Good luck! -- Regards, Julie Goucher anglers.rest@virgin.net http://www.anglers-rest.net

I can't claim to know much about the 1851 census, but I believe it came under the auspices of the government decennial census, and it was an exercise that was not attempted again until 2001. For each decennial census, reports were published. These are sizeable tomes and contain some narrative, but lots of statistical tables on the different areas of census enquiry. On this basis, I would expect to local data covered in the 1851 Census Report, split down into county and perhaps also parish. Indeed it seems that a specific volume was published in connection with the relgious survey and one is held in Glasgow University Library: http://eleanor.lib.gla.ac.uk/search~S6/?searchtype=Z&searcharg=1851+census+report+scotland&searchscope=6&sortdropdown=-&SORT=DZ&extended=0&searchlimits=&searchorigarg=Z1851+census%26SORT%3DD There should also be copies in the National Library in Edinburgh and other large reference libraries. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Beattie" <neil@clueful.co.uk> To: "D&G Mailing List" <dumfries-galloway@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] !851 Church Census > > Hi Jody > This church census is new to me but may be very useful. I'm aware of > the national census which took place in 1851 but not one udertaken by > the church. Was there a special one for Kircudbright burgh itself? > Neil >> I'm looking for an on line access to the Church census that was done in >> 1851 >> by Parish ministers. Does anyone know if there is an online source for >> the >> burgh of Kirkdcudbright. I need the information for a class paper. >> Jody >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1806 - Release Date: 22/11/2551 18:59

I had a feeling that the 1851 Religious Census was only for England and Wales so I went hunting online - frustratingly, and so typically of the English, the articles I checked don't state OUTRIGHT that Scotland wasn't included but the list of areas covered in the following Wikipedia article does not include anywhere in Scotland, so I guess, we're out of luck for Kirkcudbright: http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Some_Notes_on_th e_1851_Religious_Census_with_a_Summary_of_the_Roman_Catholic_Returns Cheers Celia Renshaw in Chesterfield UK PS I'm half Scots, half English so I feel I can be rude or complimentary about both!! -----Original Message----- From: dumfries-galloway-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dumfries-galloway-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Neil Beattie Sent: 23 November 2008 13:05 To: D&G Mailing List Subject: Re: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] !851 Church Census Hi Jody This church census is new to me but may be very useful. I'm aware of the national census which took place in 1851 but not one udertaken by the church. Was there a special one for Kircudbright burgh itself? Neil

Hi Jody This church census is new to me but may be very useful. I'm aware of the national census which took place in 1851 but not one udertaken by the church. Was there a special one for Kircudbright burgh itself? Neil > I'm looking for an on line access to the Church census that was done in 1851 > by Parish ministers. Does anyone know if there is an online source for the > burgh of Kirkdcudbright. I need the information for a class paper. > Jody >

Hi Folks The Glasgow office is the only place to get official information on army etc records for service during and after WW2. So you have to fill in the forms and pay! If he was a Para, it might be worth contacting the Parachute Regiment HQ at its base in Colchester and asking what details they still have. Stuart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" <japatterson@shaw.ca> To: "'Dumfries-Galloway rootsweb list'" <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 9:38 PM Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] SKS- Re- Retrieving military service records? > Hello listers, > > > > Can some kind soul please direct me as to how I might go > about finding out what Army unit my step Dad served with and his service # > and possibly records please? Last week I called Glasgow Army Personnel > Centre and have just received a parcel full of numerous forms to fill in > and > it says any request may take 8 months to respond and cost 30 pounds plus > if > they find his details, it will also take days to fill in all these forms? > > > > Is there somewhere one can call to get Unit and Service # details for ones > father please? George Stanley Brewin B: 09 Jul 1929 would have done > Conscription from about 1946-7 onward based on his age?.. He was a > Paratrooper as I saw an old photo of him and he told me he was a Para > before > he died some 30 years ago next month. > > > > Any and all guidance appreciated > > > > Jim Patterson-Brewin > > Western Canada > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Often finding a Johnston/e ancestor is like searching for the proverbial needle in a hay stack. For those of us with ancestors who spent some time in Ireland finding documentation is often a nightmare. Y-DNA testing has provided many of us Johnston/es with a valuable genealogy tool. While most Johnston/es are of Celtic origin a small group of us are of Danish Viking ancestry. Many of us are descendants of Herbert & his son Symon of Johnston, Nese, Glennybank and Poldean. We invite all interested individuals to participate with us on our new Yahoo group site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnstonsInPoldean/ In the Files section there are a several files with our Y-DNA information. One file has 3 Sheets. We welcome any and all informed opinions and assistance that you all can give us. The Johnston/es who descended from Herbert and his son Symon (ca. 1500) settled within a 4.5-5 mile radius of Moffatt for the most part in the early days. Dumfries was also popular. After the sale of Poldean in 1742 they appear to have traveled to the 4 corners of the world. If you have this "popular" name and have run into the proverbial brickwall, have your Y-DNA tested, find out if you are one of us and welcome aboard. Good hunting, Cliff. Johnston "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay

To all the wonderful listers who responded to my recent post thank you for your valued input and suggestions, I am most grateful:-) Happy hunting Jim Patterson-Brewin Researching, Pat(t)erson, Welsh and a whole host of others:-) _____ From: Jim [mailto:japatterson@shaw.ca] Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 1:39 PM To: 'Dumfries-Galloway rootsweb list (DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY@rootsweb.com)' Subject: SKS- Re- Retrieving military service records? Hello listers, Can some kind soul please direct me as to how I might go about finding out what Army unit my step Dad served with and his service # and possibly records please? Last week I called Glasgow Army Personnel Centre and have just received a parcel full of numerous forms to fill in and it says any request may take 8 months to respond and cost 30 pounds plus if they find his details, it will also take days to fill in all these forms? Is there somewhere one can call to get Unit and Service # details for ones father please? George Stanley Brewin B: 09 Jul 1929 would have done Conscription from about 1946-7 onward based on his age?.. He was a Paratrooper as I saw an old photo of him and he told me he was a Para before he died some 30 years ago next month. Any and all guidance appreciated Jim Patterson-Brewin Western Canada

Hello listers, Can some kind soul please direct me as to how I might go about finding out what Army unit my step Dad served with and his service # and possibly records please? Last week I called Glasgow Army Personnel Centre and have just received a parcel full of numerous forms to fill in and it says any request may take 8 months to respond and cost 30 pounds plus if they find his details, it will also take days to fill in all these forms? Is there somewhere one can call to get Unit and Service # details for ones father please? George Stanley Brewin B: 09 Jul 1929 would have done Conscription from about 1946-7 onward based on his age?.. He was a Paratrooper as I saw an old photo of him and he told me he was a Para before he died some 30 years ago next month. Any and all guidance appreciated Jim Patterson-Brewin Western Canada

I'm looking for an on line access to the Church census that was done in 1851 by Parish ministers. Does anyone know if there is an online source for the burgh of Kirkdcudbright. I need the information for a class paper. Jody -- Jody Allen, Scottish Scribbles Blog http://scottishscribbles.blogspot.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Researching: Scotland: Wallace, Mctaggart, Clarke, Mckean(d), McCartney, Stewart Ireland: Lynch, Drought Wales: Williams, Walsh

Hello List, I hope to find a Sir J. G. Nairn who was a nephew? of Sir Halliday Macartney on Halliday's death certificate also as next of kin when Donald Halliday Macartney enlisted in the Canadian Army in WW1 Sir Halliday Macartney was born in Kelton KKD in 1833. and became a Dr. . J. G. Nairn lived in London in 1906 and I believe he was the Governer of the Bank of England at one time according to an aunt of mine. Sir Halliday had died before Donald enlisted , I do know there was an Isabel Macartney a sister of Halliday's who married a Nairn but I do not know which one. List members have been so helpful, it would be great to find family . Thank you for any help . Margaret in NZ.

Hello Margaret, I found his obituary in the London Times. He went by the name "Gordon Nairne". His father was Andrew Nairne of Castle Douglas . by Isabella daughter of Robert McCartney of Dundrennan. I'll send you the obit directly. There is probably a lot about him if you do a google search. He was on the Board of Governors of the Bank of England. Joanna Waugh > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:00:21 +1300 > From: "Margaret Stantiall" <steinthall@xtra.co.nz> > Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] Nairn > To: "D&G Mailing list" <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <EE6E2AC2002046A0BB74BD77AF61971F@Margaret> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello List, > > I hope to find a Sir J. G. Nairn who was a nephew? of Sir Halliday Macartney > on Halliday's death certificate also as next of kin when Donald Halliday > Macartney enlisted in the Canadian Army in WW1 > > Sir Halliday Macartney was born in Kelton KKD in 1833. and became a Dr. > > . J. G. Nairn lived in London in 1906 and I believe he was the Governer of > the Bank of England at one time according to an aunt of mine. > > Sir Halliday had died before Donald enlisted , I do know there was an Isabel > Macartney a sister of Halliday's who married a Nairn but I do not know which > one. List members have been so helpful, it would be great to find family . > > Thank you for any help . > > Margaret in NZ. >

Hello listers, Can some kind soul please direct me as to how I might go about finding out what Army unit my step Dad served with and his service # and possibly records please? Last week I called Glasgow Army Personnel Centre and have just received a parcel full of numerous forms to fill in and it says any request may take 8 months to respond and cost 30 pounds plus if they find his details, it will also take days to fill in all these forms? Is there somewhere one can call to get Unit and Service # details for ones father please? George Stanley Brewin B: 09 Jul 1929 would have done Conscription from about 1946-7 onward based on his age?.. He was a Paratrooper as I saw an old photo of him and he told me he was a Para before he died some 30 years ago next month. Any and all guidance appreciated Jim Patterson-Brewin Western Canada

Hello Margaret Here's a possibility from the 1861 census. This Isabella age 21 , wife, was born in Kelton. John G was also born in Kelton. I don't see them after 1861. I also don't see the marriage record in Scotland on Scotlandspeople Name: Andrew Nairn Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Isabella H Gender: Male Where born: Kirkcudbright, Kirkcudbrights Registration Number: 869 Registration district: Kelton Civil Parish: Kelton Town: Castle Douglas County: Kirkcudbrightshire Address: King St Occupation: Bank Accountant ED: 3 Household schedule number: 55 Line: 16 Roll: CSSCT1861_147 Household Members: Name Age Andrew Nairn 30 Isabella H Nairn 21 John G Nairn 3 Mo Elizabth A Ruffel 21 Margaret Thomas 21 > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:00:21 +1300 > From: "Margaret Stantiall" <steinthall@xtra.co.nz> > Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] Nairn > To: "D&G Mailing list" <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <EE6E2AC2002046A0BB74BD77AF61971F@Margaret> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello List, > > I hope to find a Sir J. G. Nairn who was a nephew? of Sir Halliday Macartney > on Halliday's death certificate also as next of kin when Donald Halliday > Macartney enlisted in the Canadian Army in WW1 > > Sir Halliday Macartney was born in Kelton KKD in 1833. and became a Dr. > > . J. G. Nairn lived in London in 1906 and I believe he was the Governer of > the Bank of England at one time according to an aunt of mine. > > Sir Halliday had died before Donald enlisted , I do know there was an Isabel > Macartney a sister of Halliday's who married a Nairn but I do not know which > one. List members have been so helpful, it would be great to find family . > > Thank you for any help . > > Margaret in NZ. > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY list administrator, send an email to > DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY mailing list, send an email to > DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY- > request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 217 > *************************************************

Original snip: My name is Scott Greene. I'm am the 12th generational great-grandson of John Ferguson and Agnes Kirkpatrick. Etc Scott Ferguson Greene <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< snip >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott Whilst I cant answer all your questions, I can tell you the KIRKPATRICK'S are connected to all in the subject line. I have followed the KIRKPATRICK'S from "Dumfries" connected to my CARRUTHERS line up to William CARRUTHERS of Dormont & on through the MURRAY line > RANDOLPH & BRUCE line. I will send you the Microsoft word doc of this line for your interest (THERE ARE ERRORS) so you do need to use it with caution, rechecking data as you go along. Rgds Ian Carruthers

I did not realize how the cut-and-paste version of the email I sent yesterday would look.  WHAT A MESS!!  I've cleaned it up and here it is again (without all that Junk--I hope) ---------------------------- I'm trying to help this person out by posting it here. PLEASE REPLY TO HIM DIRECTLY AT moviedirector1776@yahoo.com I AM ONLY THE INTERMEDIARY. Thanks, Tom ----------------------------- From: "Scott Ferguson Greene" <moviedirector1776@yahoo.com>              To:  tcaulleysgenmail@yahoo.com Hello Mr. Caulley,  My name is Scott Ferguson Greene. I'm am the 12th generational great-grandson of John Ferguson and Agnes Kirkpatrick. I understand that you have expertise knowledge on the Kirkpatricks of Scotland (the Clan Colquhoun). My 12th generational great-grandmother, Agnes Kirkpatrick, was born in 1545 in Dumfriesshire, Scotland. She married my12th great-grandfather John Ferguson in Dumfriesshire, Scotland -where the Fergsuon Clan also resided.Unfortunately, my 12th great-grandmother Agnes only lived 28 years, for she passed on May 16, 1572.  I know that the Kirkpatricks were related to Sir William Wallace, and King Robert Bruce, and are a direct descendant of Charlemagne. My question is, do you have anyinformation on exactly which KirkpatricksAgnes isdirectly related to as far as an immediate Kirkpatrick family My second question is,is it true thatthe Kirkpatricks are related to the Scottish Stuart dynasty that led to King James of Great Britain  I would appreacie any information that you could share. Thank you, Sir,for your time and consideration.  Sincerely, Scott Ferguson Greene  

This morning I received the following email.  I'm trying to help this person out by posting it here. PLEASE REPLY TO HIM DIRECTLY AT moviedirector1776@yahoo.com I AM ONLY THE INTERMEDIARY. 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Thank", "metaData": { "visible": "false" } } }; YAHOO.Shortcuts.headerID = "26f035182b558bea0e51ce1262e14ce1"; Hello Mr. Caulley,       My name is Scott Ferguson Greene. I'm am the 12th generational great-grandson of John Ferguson and Agnes Kirkpatrick. I understand that you have expertise knowledge on the Kirkpatricks of Scotland (the Clan Colquhoun).       My 12th generational great-grandmother, Agnes Kirkpatrick, was born in 1545 in Dumfriesshire, Scotland. She married my 12th great-grandfather John Ferguson in Dumfriesshire, Scotland -where the Fergsuon Clan also resided. Unfortunately, my 12th great-grandmother Agnes only lived 28 years, for she passed on May 16, 1572.       I know that the Kirkpatricks were related to Sir William Wallace, and King Robert Bruce, and are a direct descendant of Charlemagne. My question is, do you have any information on exactly which Kirkpatricks Agnes is directly related to as far as an immediate Kirkpatrick family?  My second question is, is it true that the Kirkpatricks are related to the Scottish Stuart dynasty that led to King James of Great Britain?       I would appreacie any information that you could share. Thank you, Sir, for your time and consideration.                                                                                          Sincerely,                                                                              Scott Ferguson Greene               

Doug said: > Perhaps you can clarify something that has puzzled me for sometime: > > I have two marriage entries for William Blackstock and Mary Graham in > different parishes but 6 years apart. I'm reasonably sure that both entries > refer to the same couple. The first, recorded in the Stirling parish > register in 1806 reads: > > William Blackstock, priv. Capt Hamilton's Co. R. L. Militia and Mary Graham > of this par. > > The 2nd, in 1812 in the Dumfries parish register reads: > > William Blackstock and Mary Graham 2 > > I presume the '2' in the latter record may mean that it was the 2nd time the > banns had been called. > > I've always assumed that the reason for the 6 year gap in the two records is > that William was serving in the Militia and that they may have postponed > their marriage until he returned to civilian life. > > Is this a likely explanation? > > Regards > Doug Blackstock ** This is a tricky one. There are several possible answers: 1. These may be two different couple who happened to have the same names (I had an example where both couples were in the same parish around the same time, which made the baptismal register look crazy!). You have to find something to prove one way or the other whether they were the same couple. 2. Assuming they are the same couple, they might have had their banns called in Stirling, but he was sent off elswhere before they could seal the knot. Then when he was more settled, he sent for her and they married in Dumfries. 3. They MAY have married in Stirling, but for some reason the validity of the claimed marriage was challenged at Dumfries,(perhaps the entry at Stirling did not make it clear that the marriage had gone ahead) and so they went through a marriage ceremony there to make everyone happy. You will note that neither entry explicit states that they were married on a specific date. This is common with church registers. 4. There may be another answer that I haven't brought to mind! Gordon.

Gordon Perhaps you can clarify something that has puzzled me for sometime: I have two marriage entries for William Blackstock and Mary Graham in different parishes but 6 years apart. I'm reasonably sure that both entries refer to the same couple. The first, recorded in the Stirling parish register in 1806 reads: William Blackstock, priv. Capt Hamilton's Co. R. L. Militia and Mary Graham of this par. The 2nd, in 1812 in the Dumfries parish register reads: William Blackstock and Mary Graham 2 I presume the '2' in the latter record may mean that it was the 2nd time the banns had been called. I've always assumed that the reason for the 6 year gap in the two records is that William was serving in the Militia and that they may have postponed their marriage until he returned to civilian life. Is this a likely explanation? Regards Doug Blackstock On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Gordon Johnson <gordon@kinhelp.co.uk>wrote: > To clarify the facts re OPRs, here are some basic points; > 1. Baptism was almost always done as infants, as to have a child die > unbaptised was a constant fear among families. > 2. Baptism REGISTERS do not always have the fact of a baptism recorded > at the time. If the minister forget to fill in the register, one can > sometimes find when another child is baptised, the earlier child (or > children) are listed as well, so the IGI/scotlandspeople date would be > THAT date, and not the (sometimes unknown)date when the baptism actually > occurred. There are many gaps in baptismal registers, partly > forgetfulness, partly people not wishing the baptism to be registered, > partly (for a few years) the tax payable on registrations. > 3.Baptisms and marriages were often long neglected in the registers - I > know of one parish with a 50-year gap in the marriage register. > 4. Marriages are NOT what was actually being recorded in the "marriage" > register. It was officially a record of the banns of marriage being > called in the parish church, as this was a Scottish legal requirement > before marriage. As a result, the date most often found is the date of > the banns being called; you may or may not find the marriage date also > recorded. > 5. Two marriage entries. One often in the indexes finds two marriage > entries, in different parishes. This is the banns being called in two > parishes, where bride and groom are resident in different parishes. > 6. Deaths and gravestones: Most parishes have defective death registers, > if any. Deaths were not regarded as necessary to be recorded, as there > was no legal, monetary, or religious aspect to deaths. In the whole of > Caithness (where I now live) only one parish register contains any death > record. Even where they exist, it may be merely names and dates of > either death, or burial, or perhaps a fee for the use of the mortcloth, > or coffin accounts. Don't expect much, certainly not parents of adults, > and often not even the parents of a child death. > These are a few thoughts, based on decades of experience... > Gordon Johnson > <www.kinhelp.co.uk> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

To clarify the facts re OPRs, here are some basic points; 1. Baptism was almost always done as infants, as to have a child die unbaptised was a constant fear among families. 2. Baptism REGISTERS do not always have the fact of a baptism recorded at the time. If the minister forget to fill in the register, one can sometimes find when another child is baptised, the earlier child (or children) are listed as well, so the IGI/scotlandspeople date would be THAT date, and not the (sometimes unknown)date when the baptism actually occurred. There are many gaps in baptismal registers, partly forgetfulness, partly people not wishing the baptism to be registered, partly (for a few years) the tax payable on registrations. 3.Baptisms and marriages were often long neglected in the registers - I know of one parish with a 50-year gap in the marriage register. 4. Marriages are NOT what was actually being recorded in the "marriage" register. It was officially a record of the banns of marriage being called in the parish church, as this was a Scottish legal requirement before marriage. As a result, the date most often found is the date of the banns being called; you may or may not find the marriage date also recorded. 5. Two marriage entries. One often in the indexes finds two marriage entries, in different parishes. This is the banns being called in two parishes, where bride and groom are resident in different parishes. 6. Deaths and gravestones: Most parishes have defective death registers, if any. Deaths were not regarded as necessary to be recorded, as there was no legal, monetary, or religious aspect to deaths. In the whole of Caithness (where I now live) only one parish register contains any death record. Even where they exist, it may be merely names and dates of either death, or burial, or perhaps a fee for the use of the mortcloth, or coffin accounts. Don't expect much, certainly not parents of adults, and often not even the parents of a child death. These are a few thoughts, based on decades of experience... Gordon Johnson <www.kinhelp.co.uk>