Jody there are a few websites which refer to early Stonemasons http://www.unionancestors.co.uk/Scottishstonemasons.htm This is more in line with the Unions, it gives an account of the "ups and downs' of the trade. There is a link at the bottom of the page which directs to Warwick University, it will give you the holdings they have for Scotland. >From the information given on this site it may lead you to look elsewhere on census to find families who moved around in the hope of finding employment. There are two books, "The Art of the Stonemason", googling should find them. This link give a description of the contents. I haven't read the books myself. http://www.librarything.com/work/1760716/descriptions In my KEITH family many were Masons, Thomas (gr grandfather) and family between 1880 - 1912 moved from Glasgow>Rutherglen LKS> Melling Ormskirk Lancaster>Rutherglen> Dysart Fife> Rutherglen>Natal Sth Africa where he died in 1918. Another resouce is the Grand Lodge of Scotland, locate a Lodge close to where your ancestors lived, see if it is still a 'working Lodge', if so they often have historical information available. Thomas Keith and his sons were GLofS members, I located the Lodge as I had original certificates that came out from Scotland with my grandfather, I contacted the particular Lodge and received an A5 book, 225th Anniversary 1769-1994. All but a 4-5 yr period around 1810 where records were not available, there is a paragraph or more giving a description of the activities for the year, unveiling of Foundation Stones to buildings, bridges etc., a great deal of history from around Glasgow and Rutherglen. My son carries on the trade to this day. Regards Jenny Lake Macquarie NSW Aus

My father-in-law (b1909) once discussed the occupation of what I assume would be called a "stone breaker". In Northumberland men were employed to break stones for road metal - the size of the final pieces had to go through an iron ring. Colin Edinburgh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harrison McKnight" <harrison_mcknight@yahoo.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 3:20 PM Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] James Ritchie, Kirkconnel "Stone Breaker" Hi All, I am enjoying the interesting discussion about Stone Masons. One man in our line is James Ritchie, born 1809, listed in the 1851 and 1871 censuses as living in Kirkconnel with the occupation of "Stone Breaker." Any thoughts on: 1. what exactly a Stone Breaker did, and 2. where it is most likely that a Kirkconnel Stone Breaker would be working? 3. any records related to that place of employment? Harrison McKnight Michigan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I also have several among my ancestors. I believe most were self employed, or working as small sub-contractors, hired by the job - building walls, houses etc. I suspect the term "Monumental mason" would be used for anyone in that particular specialisation. Also I think "Quarrier" would be more normal for someone working in a quarry. Regards, Jim Graham

I have quite a few in my family, over several generations around that time, although in North East Scotland rather than Dumfries. Basically it seems that a stone mason was a person who built in stone. This could be something simple like a tombstone but it could also be a statue, house, castle or basically any structure in stone. >From 1780 to 1850 the was a lot of work in NE Scotland building houses as a result of the clearances. I gather they tended to work pretty independently as they were the builder, that is they did not work for a builder. Often the family would contain other occupations associated with building. In my family there were painters, carpenters, joiners and cabinet makers. Neil Perth, Oz On 1 Feb 2010 at 22:38, jody allen wrote: > Can anyone share with me what a stone mason's day might be like in the early > 1800's in Galloway? My 3xgrandfather was a stone mason and I would like to > know what he did. Were there any large construction going on in the > 1820-1840's in Kirkcudbright, Drumfries or Wigtown that would need a lot of > stone masons? I am hoping to find some records of the work he did but need > to know other than doing headstones what a stone mason might have done. > Also interested what a joiner would do? Were they basically independent and > were hired for jobs or did they work for a "union" and were called to work > on jobs. I am just looking for sources of information in other sources > rather than the Vital Statistics and kirk session records. > > Jody Legal Ethics A person is presumed innocent until proven broke

While not pretending to know anything about this, masons were surely craftsmen who had to learn their trade through an apprenticeship (7 years?) under a master mason. Their skills would be essential to erecting public buildings, churches, houses, mills and so on, not just gravestones, the work of monumental masons. A qualified mason would be admitted to membership of a craft guild - the modern concept of trade unions came later in the nineteenth century. If a mason was time-served and admitted to a guild, records of accreditation may survive. Maybe someone else can explain the role of freemasonry. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: "jody allen" <fraochale@gmail.com> To: "D&G Mailing List" <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 4:38 AM Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] Stone masons > > Can anyone share with me what a stone mason's day might be like in the > early > 1800's in Galloway? My 3xgrandfather was a stone mason and I would like to > know what he did. Were there any large construction going on in the > 1820-1840's in Kirkcudbright, Drumfries or Wigtown that would need a lot > of > stone masons? I am hoping to find some records of the work he did but need > to know other than doing headstones what a stone mason might have done. > Also interested what a joiner would do? Were they basically independent > and > were hired for jobs or did they work for a "union" and were called to work > on jobs. I am just looking for sources of information in other sources > rather than the Vital Statistics and kirk session records. > > Jody > > -- > Jody Allen, > Scottish Scribbles Blog > http://scottishscribbles.blogspot.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Researching: > Scotland: Wallace, Mctaggart, Clarke, Mckean(d), McCartney, Stewart > Ireland: Lynch, Drought > Wales: Williams, Walsh > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I also have stonemasons from New Abbey, Kirkcudbrightshire (1850-1936) in my line. At one time, they were involved in various construction projects at Shambellie House. Great-granddad had to emigrate to Canada to find steady work after the turn of the century (1900-1905). I believe that there were terms used for a stonecutter who quarried stone--rather than built in stone--such as "quarrier" or "ironstone/limestone hewer". Often, these individuals died of "stonecutter's lung" from daily inhaling minute particles of stone dust... My youngest great-uncle was one such person. Nancy (Connecticut, USA) -----Original Message----- From: Jim Graham <jim.r.graham@fsmail.net> To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:28 am Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] Stone Masons Hi, also have several among my ancestors. I believe most were self employed, or orking as small sub-contractors, hired by the job - building walls, houses etc. suspect the term "Monumental mason" would be used for anyone in that articular specialisation. Also I think "Quarrier" would be more normal for omeone working in a quarry. egards, Jim Graham ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Hi All, I am enjoying the interesting discussion about Stone Masons. One man in our line is James Ritchie, born 1809, listed in the 1851 and 1871 censuses as living in Kirkconnel with the occupation of "Stone Breaker." Any thoughts on: 1. what exactly a Stone Breaker did, and 2. where it is most likely that a Kirkconnel Stone Breaker would be working? 3. any records related to that place of employment? Harrison McKnight Michigan

At 11:38 PM 2/1/2010, jody allen wrote: >Can anyone share with me what a stone mason's day might be like in the early >1800's in Galloway? My 3xgrandfather was a stone mason and I would like to >know what he did. Were there any large construction going on in the >1820-1840's in Kirkcudbright, Drumfries or Wigtown that would need a lot of >stone masons? I am hoping to find some records of the work he did but need >to know other than doing headstones what a stone mason might have done. > Also interested what a joiner would do? Were they basically independent and >were hired for jobs or did they work for a "union" and were called to work >on jobs. I am just looking for sources of information in other sources >rather than the Vital Statistics and kirk session records. > >Jody > >-- >Jody Allen, >Scottish Scribbles Blog >http://scottishscribbles.blogspot.com >~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jody, My g-great grandfather, John David Dobie, was also a stonemason (actually a stonecutter) from Dumfries. Evidently there were quarries near Dumfries so presumably he worked in them. When they started construction of the docks in Liverpool in the 1840's he moved his family there to work on their construction. Evidently those stone docks are still being used today. So there would have been a tremendous need for stonemasons as well as stone. I'm sure there must be a Liverpool museum which has more info. I think the idea of a "union" at that time is not realistic. Any attempts to start unions were met with brutality from the police or military. Check out this website which I found through Google: <http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/maritime/albertdock/historyofthealbertdock.asp>. There are pages of relevant links if you google "liverpool docks construction", without the quotes. Cheers, Chas. Dobie.

Can anyone share with me what a stone mason's day might be like in the early 1800's in Galloway? My 3xgrandfather was a stone mason and I would like to know what he did. Were there any large construction going on in the 1820-1840's in Kirkcudbright, Drumfries or Wigtown that would need a lot of stone masons? I am hoping to find some records of the work he did but need to know other than doing headstones what a stone mason might have done. Also interested what a joiner would do? Were they basically independent and were hired for jobs or did they work for a "union" and were called to work on jobs. I am just looking for sources of information in other sources rather than the Vital Statistics and kirk session records. Jody -- Jody Allen, Scottish Scribbles Blog http://scottishscribbles.blogspot.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Researching: Scotland: Wallace, Mctaggart, Clarke, Mckean(d), McCartney, Stewart Ireland: Lynch, Drought Wales: Williams, Walsh

I am looking for any advice and guidance that be offered on tracing the ancestors of Alexander Wylie - 1840 - Garlieston and Alexander Wylie - 1816 - Garlieston, or their wives. I have a large amount of data on his descendants (including me) but am always open to other suggestions for sources of original materials and indexes or even research materials already collected if you should feel so generous. I have some information already from Scotlands People, but am starting to reach a brick wall on the ancestor front. He was the son of Alexander Wylie and Margaret Dinnell and after his birth many of his family moved south to Merseyside and more specifically the Wirral. Adrian Rutter Coventry, UK (originally from Wirral, UK) Tracing Rutter - West Kirby, Hoose and Hoylake Childs - Liverpool and Shropshire Wylie - Wirral and Wigtownshire (so far) Bradley - Wirral and Rochdale, Lancashire Farrow - Rochdale

Hi. O.P.R. Lochmaben lists just one Linton and that happens to be Adam. Date given,28 Aug. 1797. ----- Original Message ----- From: <lists@post.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 11:33 AM Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] Lintons at Lochmaben >I should be very grateful indeed if anyone could advise me as to whether or >not there are any Monumental Inscriptions in Lochmaben Parish for the name >LINTON, and, in particular, Adam LINTON.? Many thanks for any kindness in >this regard. > > = > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2653 - Release Date: 01/28/10 14:55:00

If anyone has any knowledge of Johnston(e) families in the Parish of Dornock,?including Monumental Inscriptions, I should be most grateful indeed.? My great-great-grandmother Sarah Johnstone was born there in the early 1820s, but the Registers are silent for that period, and her parents are unknown.? I am looking for possible clues of other types in order to get round this problem.

I should be very grateful indeed if anyone could advise me as to whether or not there are any Monumental Inscriptions in Lochmaben Parish for the name LINTON, and, in particular, Adam LINTON.? Many thanks for any kindness in this regard. =

Thanks to all who have made suggestions, which will feature in my continued digging. I suppose I was hoping beyond hope that someone had come across the surname before in Langholm ! (I have the OPR death entry) Next step is to buy more credits on ScotlandsPeople and get the 1841-51 images for Jean/Joan Telford and find her statutory death record. Sounds like there are some clues there. I already have Jane Borthwick (MS Horden) back to 1841. Jim Graham

Oh and of course, you can check the marriages of the children for their mother's maiden surname. J

Joan doesnt have to be her mother, but if she is, then there is surely a good potential clue there. I haven't looked at the census record for any other clues but taking this as the starting point, Joan could be: a) the mother of an earlier wife b) the mother of a wife married after 1854 and died before 1861 c) also I *think* mother in law also means step mother so *perhaps* his own father's second wife If Joan really is Jane's mother then I think she is worth looking at further. What matches for instance are there in the 1841 census under (as Telford or Hurden etc) - or if you are very lucky a remarriage in the 1855-1861 time period. Also there may be a missing 'Joan' among the older children. I wouldnt put any weight at all on the rarity or otherwise of English names in Scotland as D&G is so close to the border and by this date transportation was starting to get a lot easier. Plus of course the whole history of the region south of the Antonine Wall. HTH Judy On 10 Jan 2010, at 11:10, Jim Graham wrote: > The 1861 census gives her mother as Joan Telford (John's mother in > law).

I have this ancestor born 1806 in Langholm (1851 census), married John Borthwick of Langholm circa 1828 and died 1854 Langholm (reported surname Herdon). The 1861 census gives her mother as Joan Telford (John's mother in law). Known children are John, Peter, Margaret, Alexander, Janet and Joan. Horden / Herdon and variant surnames seem rare in Scotland; those in England are widespread but mostly in the south. Alternatively she was actually a Herdman (rare) or Horton or Hutton; in Langholm Hotson is more common. Anyway, any other information or suggestions welcome ! Thanks, Jim Graham

Could anyone help with tracing an details Annie Fox who married John Mc Farlane on 28/09/1884. Her daughter Margaret Fox born on 28/12/79 and who married George Percy is my grandmother. David Percy      David and Gillian Percy Home phone 01962 877962 Gillian's mobile 07870 637242 David's mobile 07812 040361 Email davidandgillianpercy@btinternet.com

A memorial to fishermen from Annan who drowned in the Solway was dedicated in the United Reform Church in November 2009. See newspaper article at http://www.annandaleobserver.co.uk/story.php?pheader=3&id=1602. Rene Anderson

"A fatal accident of a very disastrous kind occurred on the Solway Firth on Sunday afternoon, April 26, 1868. Five young men, employed at Annan, set out from that port in a small boat, rigged up with a sail, and crossed the Solway Firth to Bowness, on the Cumberland shore. They reached their destination in safety, and in the afternoon set out for home with the ebb tide. They had not proceeded halfway across when it was observed from the shore that their mast had got wrong and the sail swayed over the side. Shortly afterwards the boat capsized, and all the five men were thrown into the sea. Three of them sank almost immediately, being quite unable to resist the powerful force of the ebbing tide, and were drowned, but the other two clung to the overturned boat, which drifted down to the railway bridge which crosses the Firth below Bowness. There, it is conjectured, the anchor dragged against the piles of the viaduct, for the boat swung around. The two men, who were still clinging to it, made a desperate effort to save themselves, but the boat filled with water and sank, carrying with it the only two survivors of the pleasure party, and thus increasing the number of deaths to five." Extracted from the Maryborough Chronicle, Qld., Australia dated July 23, 1868 NOTE: There is no mention of any names in this article. Janet