Here's a video I did of Portpatrick Harbour last week. It can also be viewed in HD just change the number in the bottom right to HD.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71gWEAhX5p4   Vanessa  All records are subject to error. Let they without typo caste tea thirst scone! View my photostream at http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory/

Oops! Some errata on the posting of surnames as first names: It should be Carson McCullers (her husband's surname) for the author's name, not Cullors, and then the typo (if on the posting) should have been unusual and not unseal (whit!). Carson McCullers was born Lulu Carson Smith, and so perhaps she was a little ahead of her time by using her middle surname as a first name. Maisie

Just a comment: For the last decade or so I've noticed in this country (USA) that a lot of girls have been given what used to be considered surnames as first names: Hunter, Mackenzie, Lindsay, (Carson as in Carson Cullors, author), Taylor, Bailey, etc., and so it was rather a surprise to find two on on my tree, Gordon Duncan (early 1800s) and Nicholas Montgomery (1791), with surnames as forenames (or what we used to say Christian names). Even for a girl to be named Nicholas in 1791 must have seemed unusual as the original OPR entry was altered from Nicola to Nicholas. Where Gordon Duncan enters the picture, I don't know as her mother Margaret had just a very commonplace name. I am sure some listers have equally distinctive names on their trees. Nicholas Montgomery was born in May 1791 and so she was not named for Saint Nicholas ~ Santa Claus (or the Dutch Sinterklaas), December 6. Maisie

Well done! Thank you. Dan MacMeekin Silver Spring, Maryland, USA -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] Portpatrick video From: Vanessa Dixon <[1][email protected]> Date: Sat, August 20, 2011 7:40 am To: "[2][email protected]" <[3][email protected]> Here's a video I did of Portpatrick Harbour last week. It can also be viewed in HD just change the number in the bottom right to HD. [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71gWEAhX5p4 Vanessa All records are subject to error. Let they without typo caste tea thirst scone! View my photostream at [5]http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [6][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71gWEAhX5p4 5. http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory 6. mailto:[email protected]

On 17/08/2011 08:02, [email protected] wrote: > I guess my question is what was the process of annulling a marriage that was > not of the church? Did this occur thru a petition of one of the civil > courts? Or was it just not done? To put it in a nutshell, a marriage was legal for most centuries, whether or not it was sanctioned by the Kirk. As a result, a legal marriage would not normaly be annulled, unless you had the CONSIDERABLE finances to support a legal claim against it. Almost all marriages were never contested in that way. The Kirk tended to steer clear of legal tussles over a marriage which was not a church marriage( and then there were the marriages in the Roman Catholic/ Scottish Episcopal/ etc. churches). Gordon.

I recall reading somewhere that the various churches weren't all that interested in performing marriage ceremonies in the church building itself until they realized two things: one, it was more meaningful to the participants, and two, it was a source of revenue. I don't recall whether it was the mid-1700s or mid-1800s though that it became more fashionable to use the church buildings for wedding ceremonies - someone will have to help me out with that one. Before this time the closest the couple got sometimes was the front steps of the church building for their wedding. Cliff. Johnston "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see," >From A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gordon Johnson Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] marriages question On 17/08/2011 08:02, [email protected] wrote: > I guess my question is what was the process of annulling a marriage > that was not of the church? Did this occur thru a petition of one of > the civil courts? Or was it just not done? To put it in a nutshell, a marriage was legal for most centuries, whether or not it was sanctioned by the Kirk. As a result, a legal marriage would not normally be annulled, unless you had the CONSIDERABLE finances to support a legal claim against it. Almost all marriages were never contested in that way. The Kirk tended to steer clear of legal tussles over a marriage which was not a church marriage( and then there were the marriages in the Roman Catholic/ Scottish Episcopal/ etc. churches). Gordon. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is just to repost my interest in SCOON families in the Borders, but also to say that I have now set up a formal one name study for the name (GOONS #5642). BMD extracts for the name can be found at _www.one-name.org/archives/scoon.html_ (http://www.one-name.org/archives/scoon.html) and additional data on my own site at _www.donjgrant.me.uk/schp.html_ (http://www.donjgrant.me.uk/schp.html) . The latter includes a 'Scoon Index' which is being built to try to track the SCOONs of Scottish origin through the available census records and, where possible, before and after that. The SCOONs had a major presence in the Borders (probably over half the worldwide population c 1800), particularly round Hawick, Canonbie and Langholm, until the first half of the nineteenth century when many emigrated and others moved into the cities or other parts of the UK. The Scoon Index tries to track this. If you have SCOONs in your tree, I would be very pleased to hear from you with any comments or queries you may have. Donald Grant

** Scottish death certificates only recorded the place of burial and the name of the undertaker in the years 1855 to 1860. The OPRs (Church of Scotland registers before 1855) sometimes recorded either the death or burial or both, but often neither, usually with just a name and date. Gordon. Neil asked; Hello In scotland's death certificates there is a date recorded for death and one for registration but not one for burial. So I wondered if it was standard practice to record deaths before or after burial, or if there was no set custom at all. Any suggestions? Thanks Neil Perth, Aus ****************************************

A death certificate is needed before a burial can take place. Vanessa On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 02:35 BST [email protected] wrote: >Hello > >In scotland's death certificates there is a date recorded for death >and one for registration but not one for burial. So I wondered if it >was standard practice to record deaths before or after burial, or if >there was no set custom at all. > >Any suggestions? > >Thanks > >Neil > >Perth, Aus > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a question on Scottish marriages. I know that Scotland allowed marriages by declaration and that there were Gretna/Anvil marriages which were legal in Scotland. But were these marriages then also recognized as legal marriages in England? I ask because if the reason for the many of the young people to marry in Scotland was to get around the age requirements and these marriages weren't sanctioned by the Kirk, how then could these marriages be annulled? Or could they? Did they have to get a divorce and prior to the civil registration how did they get a divorce when the marriage was of an irregular kind an not of the church? I guess my question is what was the process of annulling a marriage that was not of the church? Did this occur thru a petition of one of the civil courts? Or was it just not done? Help? Jody -- Jody Allen, Scottish Scribbles Blog http://scottishscribbles.blogspot.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Researching: Scotland: Wallace, Mctaggart, Clarke, Mckean(d), McCartney, Stewart Ireland: Lynch, Drought Wales: Williams, Walsh

Thank you everybody for getting back to me on Whitestanes. Sandy's map was particularly helpful. I know there is one dwelling place called Whitestanes near Ae today but the baptisms in the 18th.century suggested a bigger place, maybe even a church. It sounds as if it was pretty remote and more like a hamlet. I read somewhere that the Ae area was on the main road to Lanarkshire and that most of its inhabitants were involved in moving goods north and south. That may be how my ancestors came into the area as I don't think the name Brisbane is indigenous to Dumfriesshire. They subsequently became weavers and moved on to Caerlaverock. Thanks again. Kate.

Hello In scotland's death certificates there is a date recorded for death and one for registration but not one for burial. So I wondered if it was standard practice to record deaths before or after burial, or if there was no set custom at all. Any suggestions? Thanks Neil Perth, Aus

Hi Kate, I take it you don't have a copy of the Kirkmahoe OPRs or MI Booklets published by DGFHS. If you did you would see the location of Whitestanes on the clip from the Crawford 1828 map inculded in these booklets. It looks like a small hill farm or croft located in a remote area to the north of the parish. I don't have any other detail than that.  You say you have checked modern maps and can't fid it.  That doesn't surprise me - it appears to be quite remote and was probably a casualty of the early to mid 1800s when many small farms were consolidated in larger more economic units. Hope that helps. Sandy   From: Kate Taylor <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 16 August, 2011 8:49:52 Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] Whitestanes. Kirkmahoe. Does anyone have any information on Whitestanes in the parish of Kirkmahoe?  Two ancestors on my tree were baptised there in the eighteenth century; Mary Brisbon, daughter of James Brisbon in 1730 and John Brisbon, son of William Brisbon and Margaret Hanah in 1736.  I have seen other mentions of the place including it being the birthplace of Thomas Carlyle's mother, Margaret Aitken in 1771, but it seems to have disappeared from any maps of the area.      Kate. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone have any information on Whitestanes in the parish of Kirkmahoe? Two ancestors on my tree were baptised there in the eighteenth century; Mary Brisbon, daughter of James Brisbon in 1730 and John Brisbon, son of William Brisbon and Margaret Hanah in 1736. I have seen other mentions of the place including it being the birthplace of Thomas Carlyle's mother, Margaret Aitken in 1771, but it seems to have disappeared from any maps of the area. Kate.

Hi I am researching my great great grandfather alexander montgomery who was born in 1796 in Urr,Kirkcudbright.He was a baker and is listed in the 1820 directory at 104 High Street Dumfries..Parents are Andrew and Agnes Montgomery. He married Jane Welsh,(Born 1796 Irongray,Kirkcudbright) I am not sure where he married her as I have been unable to find any record. They ventured to New York where Alexander is listed in theManhatten New York City Directory 1829-1830 edition ,occupation baker at 100 Reade Street,rear. Page 407. They had 3 children Margaret 1827, AndrewSinclair 1828 and Jane Welsh 1832. Jane (wife ) died in the same year possibly of cholera in New York. Alexander must have gone back to Scotland with the children. In 1839 he married Martha Watson (nee Harris) in November 1839 and set sail to Australia with Martha and his eldest daughter Margaret. In the 1841 census his 2 other children Andrew and Jane were listed as living with Alexanders' brother Hugh in Kirkcudbrightshire. I was wondering if anyone has any info as to when and where Alexander and jane married. Also any info on his father Andrew 1758 - 1832 and mother Agnes Clogston 1757 - 1858 many thanks Shirl

I believe that this is a single source, if not single lineage, surname. Supposed to have originated near Kircudbright, as I remember. My great grandmother was a Cauthers, which is a rare variant of this name. Presbyterians from the Belfast area to Montreal before 1824. Occasionally reverted to Carruthers. That family daughtered out, but I did look into Carruthers DNA, and most of it corresponds to just two Y DNA haplotypes. Which is pretty remarkable, and consistent with a single lineage surname. I've an idea that both are Norse I1, though not sure on that. Carruthers were boarder reivers, and a sept of Clan Bruce. I know that some who took the form Cauthers went through Glasgow on their way toward points west (which included Ireland). I'm sure that some Carruthers were exported to Ireland in the 16th century with other border reivers. Though I can see that yours were in Kircudbright considerably later than that. Mine could have been in Kirkcudbright area in 1715 for all I know - they'd not have been drawn toward Glasgow before the industrial revolution. I have John Cauthers, a blacksmith, died in Montreal before 1829 as that's when his widow died, married Rosannah Patterson, born about 1771, died 1829 in Montreal. For a time evidently even Protestant churches in Montreal called teh wife by her maiden name in records. Patterson was a Galloway surname, which means they could conceivably have married in Scotland. They had two children; Samuel Cauthers, b about 1802 allegedly in Belfast, and, likely but not necessarily, a daughter named Ellen. Samuel was also a blacksmith, and he married in 1824 in Montreal. They were tight with (consistently worked for for three generations) a family of industrialists from the Belfast area who founded the Montreal Unitarian church, and belonged to a progressive sort of Presbyterian congregation near Belfast. Dora ----- Original Message ----- From: "RTS Friction - Carruthers" <[email protected]> To: "Helen Vaillancourt" <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 9:56 AM Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] CARRUTHERS from Kirkbudbright area > Hi Helen > > There are not many Benjamin's in the Dumfriesshire Carruthers family. > I've a Janet KERR x Christopher Carruthers b aft.1715 & > another Janet Lorimer KERR abt 1841- 1877 Kirkbride, Keir x James McCUBBIN > 1840-1917 > none married to a Benjamin. > > Rgds > Ian C > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Helen Vaillancourt" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 1:54 AM > Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] CARRUTHERS from Kirkbudbright area > > >> Would be interested in hearing from anyone researching the family of >> Benjamin Carruthers( bc1801 to Thomas Carruthers and Janet Kerr) and wife >> Margaret Jardine( born 1808-1811 in Kirkmichael to John Jardine and Anne >> Patterson. )While I have the names of their 8 children from several >> census, >> baptism proofs are few..either they didn't have their children baptised >> in >> the Church of Scotland or they didn't have them baptised at all. The >> family >> had moved to Ontario Canada by 1860. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Helen There are not many Benjamin's in the Dumfriesshire Carruthers family. I've a Janet KERR x Christopher Carruthers b aft.1715 & another Janet Lorimer KERR abt 1841- 1877 Kirkbride, Keir x James McCUBBIN 1840-1917 none married to a Benjamin. Rgds Ian C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Vaillancourt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 1:54 AM Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] CARRUTHERS from Kirkbudbright area > Would be interested in hearing from anyone researching the family of > Benjamin Carruthers( bc1801 to Thomas Carruthers and Janet Kerr) and wife > Margaret Jardine( born 1808-1811 in Kirkmichael to John Jardine and Anne > Patterson. )While I have the names of their 8 children from several > census, > baptism proofs are few..either they didn't have their children baptised in > the Church of Scotland or they didn't have them baptised at all. The > family > had moved to Ontario Canada by 1860. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Would be interested in hearing from anyone researching the family of Benjamin Carruthers( bc1801 to Thomas Carruthers and Janet Kerr) and wife Margaret Jardine( born 1808-1811 in Kirkmichael to John Jardine and Anne Patterson. )While I have the names of their 8 children from several census, baptism proofs are few..either they didn't have their children baptised in the Church of Scotland or they didn't have them baptised at all. The family had moved to Ontario Canada by 1860.

Stan, Thank you - interesting! Can you tell me if I got the old spelling correct? I'm finding it difficult to figure it out from the map. Cliff. Johnston "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see," >From A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay -----Original Message----- From: Stanley Walker [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 2:28 PM To: 'Cliff. Johnston'; [email protected] Subject: RE: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] List of Place Names Added to Map Hi Cliff Today it is known as Moniaive meaning the 'Hill of Streams' (from the Gaelic monadh-abh), http://bit.ly/rdT8G7 Kind regards Stan Walker -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cliff. Johnston Sent: 09 August 2011 7:24 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY] List of Place Names Added to Map I spent some time today making a list of all of the place names within Dumfries County on the old map that I've restored. It may help to determine if you are looking in the correct county - or not. If someone would care to double check the spelling I would appreciate it. You'll notice that I had difficulty figuring out as least one name and put some ??? after it: http://www.pbase.com/cjmax/image/136809195 Cliff. Johnston "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see," >From A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I spent some time today making a list of all of the place names within Dumfries County on the old map that I've restored. It may help to determine if you are looking in the correct county - or not. If someone would care to double check the spelling I would appreciate it. You'll notice that I had difficulty figuring out as least one name and put some ??? after it: http://www.pbase.com/cjmax/image/136809195 Cliff. Johnston "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see," >From A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay