I have an example where the first delivery by a new doctor in a parish was named after the doctor 'as was the custom'. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Sheena Jones To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: 02 August 2004 20:36 Subject: [D-G LIST] Re: NAMING PATTERNS I believe that the first boy christened by a minister in his new parish was often named after the minister. My uncle was one such. Sheena ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerri Linke <jlinke@wecnet.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 6:37 PM Subject: NAMING PATTERNS > As a point of interest, in my DUNLOP line, I have found the "normal" (whatever that might be! ; D) pattern but I also found the name of a mid 1800s parish minister (Peter Young) in Wigtonshire who, without doubt, was held in favor with the family when the child was christened! > (Or, perhaps they were just running out of boys' names...Just kidding!) > > It is my understanding that this was not an uncommon practice during those days of the 1800s.... > > As another aside, my John Dunlop ventured from Drumbeg Farm (probably driving cattle!) to the Welsh mining area of Bedwellty, Monmouthshire mid 1800s and having met a comely lass (assumption!), married and the naming pattern of their children carried two children with the same name....One boy died at about 18 months and the next child ...a boy....was given the exact same name (Edwin Watkin...) > > To carry it even further the name, "Edwin Watkin " appeared again in the naming pattern of Edwin's sister when she bore children in America..... > > So, it would seem that was a deeply entrenched element of their lives...to carry their loved ones into the future by using these family names over and over again..... > > Although honorable, it does drive researchers a tad batty! > > Jerri in MN USA > > ______________________________ ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== ********************************** YOU HAVE ENTERED A FLAME FREE ZONE **********************************

Tom, You wrote, > > Does SKP have access to the MI's for Penpont? Looking for James Lorimer > and > his wife Margaret Dalziel. I suspect they are my 4x great grandparents. > - Sorry I don't have a match in Penpont although I do have two Lorimer + Dalziel couples in Penpont and another in Durisdeer. You may get something from these: 1. Location: Penpont Burial Ground, Dumfriesshire Ref: Manpower Sevices Commission, "Penpont MI Transcriptions" (1970) Checked by DGFHS (2000) In Memory of Margaret DALZIEL, wife of Thomas LORIMER in Park House, who died 9 July 1817 aged 47 years Also of Esther LORIMER their daughter, who died 18 Oct 1809 aged 9 years And John LORIMER their son, who died 11 Nov 1817 aged 20 years Also James LORIMER their son, who died 16th Augt 1821 aged 26 years And Robert LORIMER their son, who died 27 Oct 1822 aged 17 years The said Thomas LORIMER who died at Penpont 19th Oct 1839 aged 79 years. 2. Location: Penpont Burial Ground, Dumfriesshire Ref: Manpower Sevices Commission, "Penpont MI Transcriptions" (1970) Checked by DGFHS (2000) In Loving Memory of William McNISH, plasterer, who died at Penpont 7th Nov 1926 aged 78 years And his wife Isabella DALZIEL, died 29th Jan 1921 aged 73 years Also of their family: William, died 7th Dec 1878 aged 3 years & 5 months Willie, died 18th Feb 1885 aged 3 years & 7 months Maggie, died 13th Dec 1907 aged 29 years John, died 22nd July 1919 aged 45 years, and interred in Willesden Cemetery, London Also James, beloved husband of Williamina LORIMER, who died at Pringleton, Penpont, 13th May 1949 aged 62 years Also the above Williamina LORIMER, died 14th Sep 1981 in her 90th year 3. Location: Durisdeer Churchyard, Dumfriesshire Ref: Manpower Services Commission, "Durisdeer MI Transcriptions" (1970) Checked by DGFHS (2003) In Memory of Betty LORIMER, daughter of James LORIMER and Janet DALZIEL SAndy

Lucille, In my family of eight: 1) The eldest daughter had two middle surnames from my father's side. 2) My oldest brother's middle name was my mother's surname. 3) The next brother had no middle name, but his Christian (forename as it's called now!!!) was the same as my mother and father's brothers. 4) The next sister was named after my mother's side, with three middle surnames (just like my mother). 5) The next brother was named after my father with the same middle Christian and surname from his side. This brother's first name was also after my father's grandfather 6) The youngest brother had no middle name, but he was given the Christian (forename) of my father's father. 7) My Christian name was the same as my mother's sister and a great-aunt and I have my mother's surname as a middle name. 8) My youngest sister's first name was after my mother and a great-grandmother, and she was also given my mother's surname as a middle name. I can't see any particular pattern. We go back to this naming in the early 1920s when the first of my siblings was born. No one had a Christian (forename as a middle name, neither did my antecedents on both sides...they all carried on a family surname, which makes it easier to try to trace, as you can imagine). Unfortunately, I forgot to carry on the family tradition with my daughters and neither one has a surname from my husband or me. My son's Christian and middle name were after my father's father, so at least one out of three isn't so bad, I suppose. None of my grandchildren have any family names, except for one grandson whose first name is after my husband's great-grandfather, but it wasn't by design! Where were our brains? Maisie -----Original Message----- From: Lucille Richmond [mailto:Lucille_Richmond_9@msn.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:33 AM To: Subject: [D-G LIST] Re: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D Digest V04 #196 I hate to be a wet-blanket, but my grandparents named all their daughters with the mother's maiden name as the girls' middle names. Jane Reid Finlay, Margaret Reid Finlay, Elizabeth Reid Finlay, Mae Reid Finlay. Only their son was named differently. Lucille Richmond ----- Original Message ----- From: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D-requ est@rootsweb.com> To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D@rootsweb.com<mailto:DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D@rootsweb.com > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:00 AM Subject: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D Digest V04 #196 ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Does SKP have access to the MI's for Penpont? Looking for James Lorimer and his wife Margaret Dalziel. I suspect they are my 4x great grandparents. Thanks Tom Shaw

There is another side to the naming pattern thing in that middle names (certainly form the 1920's in my family) took the form of a surname - sometimes the surname of the person the child was named after, sometimes in honour of a close family member, friend, or in one case (in my family) a generous employer. For generations my family believed that four known generations of John Henderson Douglas Coupers all had purely surnames as middle names - since researching I have uncovered that Henderson Douglas was in fact the first name and surname of my GGG grandfather! (Galloway) Ruth (Sydney, Australia) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Black" <dcblack@sympatico.ca> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 12:02 AM Subject: RE: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > Hello, Has this (very interesting) thread of e-mails discussing naming > conventions yet addressed middle names? My research into my family tree has > uncovered a consistent habit of naming the first born son after his mother's > father - where the family middle name is concerned. For example, my father's > name Noel Ernest Black reflects his mother's (Marcelle Gauthier) father's > (Ernest Gauthier) name. Noel's father - Clayton Thomas Black - derives the > name Thomas from his mother's (Elizabeth Wren) father's (Thomas Wren) name. > Any perspectives listers might have on this aspect of naming patterns would > be most appreciated. I should add that this pattern is followed without fail > for seven generations until it breaks down owing to the early death of one > man and an early death of another's wife such that he remarries. Where > children lose a father very early on in life the naming pattern is lost, or > so it would seem. Thank you for any information others might be able to > provide. > > Dean > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Ritchie [mailto:iritchie1@iprimus.com.au] > Sent: August 1, 2004 7:24 AM > To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > Thankyou all for the feedback. It appears that my theory is at least > possible. I don't really have a possible first son's birth or death but was > just checking that it was a possiblility. I'm looking for parents for my > Walter Ritchie (b.circa 1796) and,with no obvious standout > possibilities,began to look at other scenarios. I found possible parents who > would fill the criteria as far as the other children of Walter & Martha were > concerned providing I made the assumption that a first son had been born and > then,conveniently,died. I know,it's the old long bow again and I've changed > the string more than once already but at least I'm still aiming at the same > target. > Incidentally how do illegitimate children figure in this naming scheme? > e.g.If Martha had a child before she married Walter,and to a different > father, is it still child number one? or only as far as Martha is concerned? > Sorry about that last query - I know I'm pushing my luck. > > Ian Ritchie > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join > CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > To reach every member of the list : > Send Email to ....... DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com >

In a message dated 03/08/2004 15:40:48 GMT Daylight Time, bulty@snowy.net.au writes: > > Did you have to pay a big ransom Sandy or did you just use some of your > Scottish charm to talk your way out of the prison camp?!!! Simpler than that Helen, I drew a free GET OUT OF JAIL card from the Freeola pack. Sandy

Moffat was a spa town. People went there for the hydropathic benefits. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Lowlandscot@aol.com To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: 30 July 2004 14:52 Subject: [D-G LIST] lodging houses in Moffat Hi I am in the process of making an alphabetical index to the 1837 Pigot's directory for Dumfriesshire..and have got to Moffat ...does anyone know why there would be 24 lodging houses in Moffat in the 1830s? This is the first town to have any. Irene ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If your line involves the surname BRUCE why not join CLAN-BRUCE-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Folks, Dumfries and Galloway Family History Website is back and is again accessable at www.dgfhs.org.uk . Our former ISP (Freenetname) finally let us get back into the world this morning after holding us prisoner for six weeks. Anyone who bookmarked the temporary location, www.research-centre.freeola.com , need not make any changes unless they want to. I have arranged it so that both URLs point to the same bit of cyberspace holding our website. Regards to all, Sandy

I believe that the first boy christened by a minister in his new parish was often named after the minister. My uncle was one such. Sheena ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerri Linke <jlinke@wecnet.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 6:37 PM Subject: NAMING PATTERNS > As a point of interest, in my DUNLOP line, I have found the "normal" (whatever that might be! ; D) pattern but I also found the name of a mid 1800s parish minister (Peter Young) in Wigtonshire who, without doubt, was held in favor with the family when the child was christened! > (Or, perhaps they were just running out of boys' names...Just kidding!) > > It is my understanding that this was not an uncommon practice during those days of the 1800s.... > > As another aside, my John Dunlop ventured from Drumbeg Farm (probably driving cattle!) to the Welsh mining area of Bedwellty, Monmouthshire mid 1800s and having met a comely lass (assumption!), married and the naming pattern of their children carried two children with the same name....One boy died at about 18 months and the next child ...a boy....was given the exact same name (Edwin Watkin...) > > To carry it even further the name, "Edwin Watkin " appeared again in the naming pattern of Edwin's sister when she bore children in America..... > > So, it would seem that was a deeply entrenched element of their lives...to carry their loved ones into the future by using these family names over and over again..... > > Although honorable, it does drive researchers a tad batty! > > Jerri in MN USA > > ______________________________

Hi Jeanette I have a few notes from Kirkpatrick-Durham that may help (or confuse )your search. John Affleck from Garmartin was a church elder in 1797 Robert Affleck "in Number One" Chipperkyle was an elder in 1804 Alexander McLure from Kirklandhill was an elder in 1836 No mention of Gilston - but mention is made of a John Gelston being an elder in 1774. Perhaps a search on Gelston might produce some results. Some Locke and McGeorge families are also mentioned if you think they might help. Best wishes Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: <Janoch2000@aol.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:57 AM Subject: [D-G LIST] AFFLECK MI puzzle > > Hi List, > > I have Mary AFFLECK ( Hotel Keeper) & widow of Robert AFFLECK ( Inn Keeper) > died Kirkpatrick Durham June 8 1881 aged 80 , parents John GILSTON and Jane > McCLURE. > > Son of above; Thomas AFFLECK died Aug. 24th. aged 36, K.Durham also another > son Samuel AFFLECK died April 3rd 1858 aged 23, K.Durham interred at Urr > churchyard. > > So I looked in Vol. 5 of my MI books for The Stewartry of Kirkcudbright, and > found this MI, but I cannot make much sense of it, and thought someone may see > what I cannot. > > imo Robt. AFFLECK fr Little Firthead and Chipperkyle, K. Durham b 1744 d > 1808, w Agnes McMURRAY 1753 1818, chn; Samuel, Firthead1778 1789, Agnes 1787 > 1814 ( h Robt CAMPBELL), Janet 1776 1815 ( h Jas McGEORGE), Eliz, K. Durham b > 1780 d 1839 , John 1782 1840, Robt 1785 1848 ( w Marion LOCKE 1792 1849), > chn, John 1812 1812, Robt > Liverpool b 1813 d 1836, *Samuel, KP.D, 1835 1858. *Thos, KPD, 1840 1876 > ), > Mary AFFLECK 1801 1881 > My problem is that Robt . who died 1836 cold not have been Mary's husband as > he died 4 years before *Thom. was born. Also strange that as Mary AFFLECK not > maiden name GILSTON. In the 1841 census, husband Robt. is not around and in > 1851she was a widow. > Can anyone help? > Kind Regards > Jeanette (from Pitlochry) > D&G MEMBER 3052 > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ >

My father, the eldest of his family, was stuck with the middle name Humphries and as far as the world at large knew his name was Douglas H. Paterson. We kids knew what the H stood for - Mom must have told us - but never why. It was only when I started doing Family research and put a direct question to Dad that he told me it was his paternal grandmother's maiden name. Later I found one of Dad's Uncles named Colin McArthur Paterson. A short while later I found a William Paterson marriage to Helen McArthur and knew I had the right record. This couple were the grandparents of Colin McArthur. One of William and Helen's sons had the middle name Alexander...a common enough name, right...but also, it turns out, the maiden name of Helen's mother! Cheers! Malcolm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Black" <dcblack@sympatico.ca> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: RE: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > As far as I know this naming pattern (using the mother's father's first name > as the middle name for the mother's child, for boys), has been around for > some time. While middle names are not normally recorded I have found them > popping up now and then. My GGGrandfather's (Robert Black) was born in 1822 > in Ramsay Township, Bathurst District, Upper Canada. He married in 1848 and > had two sons. The second son was named after his father. However, only in > his obituary seventy five years later is he listed as Robert "J." Black. The > "J." I have determined stood for John - the first name of little Robert's > mother's father - John McPhee. This Robert John Black had many sons himself, > and one was named John Caldwell Black. "Caldwell" was the family name of his > mother - Mary Caldwell. This pattern of naming a son with a middle name that > matches his mother's father's name, seems to pop up in Irish families and > Scottish families. > > Dean > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sheena Jones [mailto:sheenafjones@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: August 1, 2004 6:00 PM > To: Dean Black; DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > This pattern is new to me. Could you tell us which part of the world they > lived in? Also which centuries it covered? > > Sheena > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dean Black <dcblack@sympatico.ca> > To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 3:02 PM > Subject: RE: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > > Hello, Has this (very interesting) thread of e-mails discussing naming > > conventions yet addressed middle names? My research into my family tree > has > > uncovered a consistent habit of naming the first born son after his > mother's > > father - where the family middle name is concerned. For example, my > father's > > name Noel Ernest Black reflects his mother's (Marcelle Gauthier) father's > > (Ernest Gauthier) name. Noel's father - Clayton Thomas Black - derives the > > name Thomas from his mother's (Elizabeth Wren) father's (Thomas Wren) > name. > > Any perspectives listers might have on this aspect of naming patterns > would > > be most appreciated. I should add that this pattern is followed without > fail > > for seven generations until it breaks down owing to the early death of one > > man and an early death of another's wife such that he remarries. Where > > children lose a father very early on in life the naming pattern is lost, > or > > so it would seem. Thank you for any information others might be able to > > provide. > > > > Dean > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ian Ritchie [mailto:iritchie1@iprimus.com.au] > > Sent: August 1, 2004 7:24 AM > > To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > > > > Thankyou all for the feedback. It appears that my theory is at least > > possible. I don't really have a possible first son's birth or death but > was > > just checking that it was a possiblility. I'm looking for parents for my > > Walter Ritchie (b.circa 1796) and,with no obvious standout > > possibilities,began to look at other scenarios. I found possible parents > who > > would fill the criteria as far as the other children of Walter & Martha > were > > concerned providing I made the assumption that a first son had been born > and > > then,conveniently,died. I know,it's the old long bow again and I've > changed > > the string more than once already but at least I'm still aiming at the > same > > target. > > Incidentally how do illegitimate children figure in this naming scheme? > > e.g.If Martha had a child before she married Walter,and to a different > > father, is it still child number one? or only as far as Martha is > concerned? > > Sorry about that last query - I know I'm pushing my luck. > > > > Ian Ritchie > > > > > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join > > CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > > ______________________________ > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join > CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > >

I hate to be a wet-blanket, but my grandparents named all their daughters with the mother's maiden name as the girls' middle names. Jane Reid Finlay, Margaret Reid Finlay, Elizabeth Reid Finlay, Mae Reid Finlay. Only their son was named differently. Lucille Richmond ----- Original Message ----- From: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D@rootsweb.com<mailto:DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:00 AM Subject: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D Digest V04 #196

Years ago I received a naming pattern from the Lib. of Scotland. It follows the rule except they said that when a father or member of the family dies in a tragically it is not unusual for the named to be dropped because it was thought to bring bad luck. Brenda

I have that in some cases, but the middle name is usually the grandparents surname. A boy got his own fathers surname prefaced by his maternal grandfathers 'full' name. A daughter got her paternal grandmothers 'full' name as her first and middle names. A generation later the thing broke down and a favoured middle name, formerly a surname, was passed down regardless. Judy ---------- >From: "Jerri Linke" <jlinke@wecnet.com> >To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns >Date: 01, Sun Aug, 2004, 10:32 pm > > Dean, > > Have the same in my Scots (Dunlop) family and Welsh (Hughes) family where > the mother's maiden name was given to one of the children as their middle > name.....

Date sent: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:58:42 EDT From: DFSGAL@aol.com To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Captain John Scott mystery solved - Torduff > --part1_1ee.26582924.2e38eef2_boundary-- > Ahh I see. Thanks for the help ;-)

This pattern is new to me. Could you tell us which part of the world they lived in? Also which centuries it covered? Sheena ----- Original Message ----- From: Dean Black <dcblack@sympatico.ca> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 3:02 PM Subject: RE: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > Hello, Has this (very interesting) thread of e-mails discussing naming > conventions yet addressed middle names? My research into my family tree has > uncovered a consistent habit of naming the first born son after his mother's > father - where the family middle name is concerned. For example, my father's > name Noel Ernest Black reflects his mother's (Marcelle Gauthier) father's > (Ernest Gauthier) name. Noel's father - Clayton Thomas Black - derives the > name Thomas from his mother's (Elizabeth Wren) father's (Thomas Wren) name. > Any perspectives listers might have on this aspect of naming patterns would > be most appreciated. I should add that this pattern is followed without fail > for seven generations until it breaks down owing to the early death of one > man and an early death of another's wife such that he remarries. Where > children lose a father very early on in life the naming pattern is lost, or > so it would seem. Thank you for any information others might be able to > provide. > > Dean > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Ritchie [mailto:iritchie1@iprimus.com.au] > Sent: August 1, 2004 7:24 AM > To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [D-G LIST] Scottish Naming Patterns > > > Thankyou all for the feedback. It appears that my theory is at least > possible. I don't really have a possible first son's birth or death but was > just checking that it was a possiblility. I'm looking for parents for my > Walter Ritchie (b.circa 1796) and,with no obvious standout > possibilities,began to look at other scenarios. I found possible parents who > would fill the criteria as far as the other children of Walter & Martha were > concerned providing I made the assumption that a first son had been born and > then,conveniently,died. I know,it's the old long bow again and I've changed > the string more than once already but at least I'm still aiming at the same > target. > Incidentally how do illegitimate children figure in this naming scheme? > e.g.If Martha had a child before she married Walter,and to a different > father, is it still child number one? or only as far as Martha is concerned? > Sorry about that last query - I know I'm pushing my luck. > > Ian Ritchie > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join > CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > ______________________________

In my family history, the name of a child who died was reused for the next one of the same sex to be born (sometimes more than once in the same set of siblings). So in your case, if the first son died between the birth of the third and fourth sons, I would expect the fourth son to get the grandfather's christian name as it was important for that name to be carried on. But there are no guarantees! Sheena ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Ritchie <iritchie1@iprimus.com.au> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 3:19 AM Subject: Scottish Naming Patterns > Hi Listers, > I have a query which will hopefully not be totally obscured by my fractured > logic. > > If a first son was born and named after the paternal grandfather as per the > Scottish naming pattern. > Then a second son was born and named after the maternal grandfather. > A third son was born and would normally take his father's name but could not > because,since the father had the same name as the paternal grandfather,that > name had already been given to the first son. Thus he was named arbitrarily. > Then say the first son died! > Is this son then discounted from the pattern allowing a new,now third son,to > take the father's name as the original is now defunct? > > My apologies for this hypothetical situation the answer to which could send > me off into a new frenzy of searching. > > Ian Ritchie > > ______________________________

Thankyou all for the feedback. It appears that my theory is at least possible. I don't really have a possible first son's birth or death but was just checking that it was a possiblility. I'm looking for parents for my Walter Ritchie (b.circa 1796) and,with no obvious standout possibilities,began to look at other scenarios. I found possible parents who would fill the criteria as far as the other children of Walter & Martha were concerned providing I made the assumption that a first son had been born and then,conveniently,died. I know,it's the old long bow again and I've changed the string more than once already but at least I'm still aiming at the same target. Incidentally how do illegitimate children figure in this naming scheme? e.g.If Martha had a child before she married Walter,and to a different father, is it still child number one? or only as far as Martha is concerned? Sorry about that last query - I know I'm pushing my luck. Ian Ritchie

Just picked this up. I have - John Thomson b.1817-1820 d.1890, married Janet Laurie d.1866 (b. abt 1819). A number of children that I cannot find - includes James (married Elizabeth Fair?), Mary (married unknown McQueen) & David. John's parents - Samuel Thomson (b.1789 d.1874) Catherine McCubbin, var. spellings (b.1791 d.1859), Samuel & Catherine lived at (Little) Auchenfadd, Troqueer . Also have James Thomson (believe b.1815) first married Margaret Mctaggart 1843, then married Elizabeth Roxburgh 1860. All this courtesy of my grandfather who prepared a family tree prior to 1968. I have only been at this for abt. 4 months and feel that I am chasing shadows with James & John. I have solid info. on their younger brother Joseph, my 2g/grandfather. I believe that James & John, and their issue, had connections with families (in no particular order) - Angus Fair McQueen Clydesdale McSheny Scott Cairns Love McPhail Cameron Thomson I have had more success tracing family in NSW, Australia. Anyone out there able to give me a lead? David Thomson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mrs E. Smith" <evnike@supanet.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 6:20 PM Subject: [D-G LIST] Re: interests: LAURIE > [This message (sent over a week ago) has not yet appeared on the list] > > I also am interested in Laurie/Lawrie in and around Kirkcudbright during the > period 1750-1850. In particular:- > > Archibald Lawrie (1768-1837) who married Anne McKitterick Adair in 1794. > > Their son George James Lawrie (1796-1878) married Laura Louise second > daughter of Samuel Ludlow of Delhi. > > Their daughter Frances Wallace Lawrie (b. 7 September 1828) married Thomas > Carlyle (1803-1855) son of William Carlyle and Margaret Heriot of Savannah, > Georgia. (Margaret was the widow of William McMurdo of Jamaica). > > I have sent this information because of the current interests of members of > the list but hope to double-check the detail when I have more time. > > Eunice Smith > Edinburgh, Scotland > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ >

Edward, have a look at this link: http://www.dalbeattie.com/moffat/wellroadcentre/ I found it using a google search for Huntly Lodge, Moffat. Best wishes, Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: <Epaxton@aol.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 6:57 PM Subject: [D-G LIST] Huntly Lodge Moffat > Evening > > Would anyone know anything about this place? I had a grand uncle who was a > coachman there in 1881. > > TIA > > edward > Limpsfield, Surrey > Using Norton SystemWorks > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ > >