George Mccall issued two stories this week that may be published elsewhere, but it explains the conditions most of us left and also lists many of our family that left. " An Englishman who journeyed into Scotland in 1600's wrote, If the tourists entered Scotland through Dumfries Shire and the moors of Galloway, he was at once filled with dismay by the dismal changes from his country- the landscape is bleak and bare, destitute of trees, abounding in heather and morass and barren hills; soil where cultivated is found only in dirty patches of crops, on ground surrounded by heather and bog;____." After winter the cattle were sometimes in such weakened condition, that they had to be carried to pasture, by "lifting". In bad seasons, people were forced to bleed the cattle and mix with some meal to survive. I guess a "Rood Fair " provided some escape, but by 1608 our family began to move and most had left by 1700. We had begun the 1600's as free-holders, but by end of 1600's most of the land had been lost. Received copy of "Unfit to Command" and no members of our family are listed. Be Proud of Your Heritage, Ron Mccall www.clanmccall.org
Dear List, Randy and I have a problem with these people. Wigtown Free Press 1843 April 6th At Campbelton, Argyleshire, on the morning of the 25th ult., Mr David Brunton, of the Excise, there, in the 37th year of his age, son of the late Mr Wm. Brunton, Tinwald Cottage 17th August At Campbeltown, Argyleshire, on the 25th ult., Mr David Brunton, officer of excise, son of the late Mr Wm. Brunton, Tinwald Cottage. 2nd November At Dumfries, on the 26th ult., William, third son of the late Mr William Brunton, Tinwald Cottage, aged 25 years. One theory is that in the second entry the name David has been sent in error, as in the third entry it states there are three sons. Can anyone help here, perhaps someone has MI's for Campbeltown, and Dumfries. It does not state where these men were interred. thanks everyone. Diana (and Randy) ==== SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Mailing List ====
Hi Emma, I have a Janet Crone born c.1856 Scotland who married my GG Uncle Ebenezer Lockerbie in 1876. The family emigrated to Chicago in 1891. If this is your Janet I'd love to hear from you. Regards, Joan
Barb, Yes, that's the family, my husband is a descendant of their daughter Sarah. Thank you very much for taking the time to look that up, even if it did not reveal any new information. The person providing the data evidently did not know any more than I did! The sources are not named, are they? In appreciation, Christine
Emma, I have a Jemima Cron/Chron born about 1807. She married William White in 1830 and they emigrated to Australia in 1832. I have never been able to find out anything about her. Sue Dowd DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > ATTACHMENT part 1 message/rfc822 DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D Digest Volume 04 : Issue 221 Today's Topics: #1 Carruthers ["carruthers - home" #2 CRONE ["Emma Guild" #3 Re: [D-G LIST] Carruthers [JJardcinc@aol.com] #4 Crone ["Joan Wells" Administrivia: To unsubscribe from DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D, send a message to DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D-request@rootsweb.com that contains in the body of the message the command unsubscribe and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:09:35 +0200 From: "carruthers - home" To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Carruthers Looking to correspond with anyone with connections to : CARRUTHERS James x Sarah McDonald From the areas of Guillyburn,Kirkmahoe,Village of Quarrelwood. & John CARRUTHERS x Jane Ann Swan Bettween 1790 & 1860 Would anyone know where Guillyburn & Quarrelwood is in relation to Kirkmahoe & Closeburn. many thanks Ian carruthers ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 3 message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:12:57 +0100 From: "Emma Guild" To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: CRONE Hello I've just found a new line in my tree that come from Durrisdeer, Dumfries I wondered if anyone else is researching them or has info. I have a Margaret Crone(1821) who moved to Carlisle Her parents were John Crone and Agnes Harkness and she had siblings John, Janet, Mary, Ann, William, James and Helen and I think Marion Thanks Emma ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 4 message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:28:08 EDT From: JJardcinc@aol.com To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Carruthers Ian, Guillyburn and Quarrelwood still exist as farms, about 6 miles SE of Closeburn in Kirkmahoe parish. Go to _www.streetmap.co.uk_ (http://www.streetmap.co.uk) , type in Duncow (closest village) as the GB placename, click on Duncow (Town - Dumfries & Galloway), then zoom in by clicking on the largest zoom icon. Quarrelwood is just north of Duncow. Then move one pane NE (click on the Red arrow in the NE corner of the window). Guillyburn is just north of Auchencairn. Or, click on this URL - it will take you directly to the map pane with both farms showing: _http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=297500&y=584500&z=3&sv=297500,584500& st=4&ar=N&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&dn=608_ (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=297500&y=584500&z=3&sv=297500,584500&st=4&ar=N&mapp=newmap. srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&dn=608) The trick was to figure out where they were to begin with. Streetmap did not have these farmnames in their online index, soI had to manually search my printed OS Pathfinder map first. Yours aye, John Jardine Cincinnati, Ohio USA D&G FHS Member #1918 Alba mo dhuthaich gu deireadh mo la! (Scotland my homeland forever!) JARDINE/JARDEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Annan, Applegarth, Wamphray, Torthorwald, Collin, Racks, Cummertrees, Powfoot, Mouswald, Kirkmichael, Templand; GREEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbright; RAE in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbright; MOFFAT in Dumfries, Maxwelltown; McMILLAN in Dumfries, Kirkcudbright, Irongray; HALLIDAY in Irongray; BRODIE in Dumfries, Maxwelltown; DICKSON in Mouswald; HOPE in Annan; JOHNSTON(E) in Applegarth, Kirkpatrick-Juxta; PORTEOUS in Applegarth; RICHARDSON in Applegarth ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 5 message/rfc822 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:38:56 +1200 From: "Joan Wells" To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Crone Hi Emma, I have a Janet Crone born c.1856 Scotland who married my GG Uncle Ebenezer Lockerbie in 1876. The family emigrated to Chicago in 1891. If this is your Janet I'd love to hear from you. Regards, Joan --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
Hello I've just found a new line in my tree that come from Durrisdeer, Dumfries I wondered if anyone else is researching them or has info. I have a Margaret Crone(1821) who moved to Carlisle Her parents were John Crone and Agnes Harkness and she had siblings John, Janet, Mary, Ann, William, James and Helen and I think Marion Thanks Emma
Looking to correspond with anyone with connections to : CARRUTHERS James x Sarah McDonald From the areas of Guillyburn,Kirkmahoe,Village of Quarrelwood. & John CARRUTHERS x Jane Ann Swan Bettween 1790 & 1860 Would anyone know where Guillyburn & Quarrelwood is in relation to Kirkmahoe & Closeburn. many thanks Ian carruthers
Ian, Guillyburn and Quarrelwood still exist as farms, about 6 miles SE of Closeburn in Kirkmahoe parish. Go to _www.streetmap.co.uk_ (http://www.streetmap.co.uk) , type in Duncow (closest village) as the GB placename, click on Duncow (Town - Dumfries & Galloway), then zoom in by clicking on the largest zoom icon. Quarrelwood is just north of Duncow. Then move one pane NE (click on the Red arrow in the NE corner of the window). Guillyburn is just north of Auchencairn. Or, click on this URL - it will take you directly to the map pane with both farms showing: _http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=297500&y=584500&z=3&sv=297500,584500& st=4&ar=N&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&dn=608_ (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=297500&y=584500&z=3&sv=297500,584500&st=4&ar=N&mapp=newmap. srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&dn=608) The trick was to figure out where they were to begin with. Streetmap did not have these farmnames in their online index, soI had to manually search my printed OS Pathfinder map first. Yours aye, John Jardine Cincinnati, Ohio USA D&G FHS Member #1918 Alba mo dhuthaich gu deireadh mo la! (Scotland my homeland forever!) JARDINE/JARDEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Annan, Applegarth, Wamphray, Torthorwald, Collin, Racks, Cummertrees, Powfoot, Mouswald, Kirkmichael, Templand; GREEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbright; RAE in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbright; MOFFAT in Dumfries, Maxwelltown; McMILLAN in Dumfries, Kirkcudbright, Irongray; HALLIDAY in Irongray; BRODIE in Dumfries, Maxwelltown; DICKSON in Mouswald; HOPE in Annan; JOHNSTON(E) in Applegarth, Kirkpatrick-Juxta; PORTEOUS in Applegarth; RICHARDSON in Applegarth
Hello Helen. I have a James LAURIE who was a draper at his marriage to Ellen COMMOCK in 1814 in Bolton, Lancashire. His first child was born in Dumfries though in 1815. Would be very interested to exchange information with you. regards David in Wellington NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Holden" <DMHolden@ntlworld.com> To: <> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:51 PM Subject: LAURIE and MENZIES >I am trying to find a marriage between Robert LAURIE and Hellen MENZIES. > > In 1881 this couple were living at Warwick St Nicholas in England. Robert > was 71 and a retired Draper, Hellen is 64. Both state they are from > Dumfries. > > I have been told that Robert is in Warwick on the 1841 census- > Robert Laurie , age 30, draper, SCT was in the Market Sq > William Laurie, age 40, draper, SCT in New St > > but have yet to get a copy of the entry for him, my gt gt grandfather John > MENZIES also a Draper from Dumfries is on the 1841 census for Newark, > Nottinghamshire. > > Was there a training school in Dumfries for Drapers? > > Is anyone researching the LAURIE surname? > > Dorothy Holden nee MENZIES > Dover Kent England Uk > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04 > > ______________________________
MessageHi list This was the reply from the 'Fasti' site. >>> Many thanks for visiting Scottish Ministers web pages, if you care to read the page it does state what volume and what areas of the Lothians the information refers to. Volume II of the Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae, Synods of Merse and Teviotdale I hope to have online this year. David Walker E-mail Yours Aye David Regards Ian. Researching Family History in Dumfries & Galloway ~ and beyond. Please visit my Website: http://www.imchad.freeola.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04 ________________________________________________________________________ 160 hours freephone internet - £12.99 - the cheapest around! FREE unlimited web space, e-mail & domain hosting www.freeola.com
Dear List, I was so interested in the article as my father John McCartney Irving born in 1885 near Castle Douglas, brought up on the family farm went to England and became a "scotch draper" , as a brother also did, married my mother who worked in a drapers shop in Burton- on-Trent and came to New Zealand the next week and became a travelling salesman for a big firm in Wellington our capital city. On his marriage certificate he was a Master Draper so he must have been well trained . My aunt in England had told me the he was a "Scotch Draper" which did not mean much , so I am pleased to have the information about them . Thanks, Margaret in New Zealand
Vol 1 Synod of Lothian and Tweeddale (reproduced on Walker's website) Vol 2 Synods of Merse and Teviotdale, Dumfries and Galloway Vol 3 Synod of Glasgow and Ayr Vol 4 Synods of Argyll and of Perth and Stirling Vol 5 Synods of Fife and of Angus and Mearns Vol 6 Synods of Aberdeen and of Moray Vol 7 Synods of Ross, Sutherland and Caithness and of Orkney and Shetland, England, Ireland and Overseas Tom Thomson Canterbury, Kent
Hi Irene It does have details of these two, but only because they were in Bathgate and Peebles. No details of any ministry in South-West Scotland. Well it has James and George Monilaws who were in Annan in the 1820s and 30s.......... I just checked for them because my Pigot's was open at that page ............. don't have many personal god-fearing ancestors <g> Irene regards Ian. Researching Family History in Dumfries & Galloway ~ and beyond. Please visit my Website: http://www.imchad.freeola.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04
Hi List I just browsed this link and it should be made clear that it does not include the volume which includes the Presbyteries of S-W Scotland. As far as I can see it only has the Edinburgh area. Regards Ian. Researching Family History in Dumfries & Galloway ~ and beyond. Please visit my Website: http://www.imchad.freeola.com -----Original Message----- From: Alison Causton [mailto:acauston@ns.sympatico.ca] Sent: 24 August 2004 12:44 To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Fasti on-line On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 08:39 AM, Alison Causton wrote: > On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 07:29 AM, J A Olsen wrote: > >> this link was posted to the UK North & Scotland Yahoo list. Should >> appeal to >> a few folk here. >> >> http://www.dwalker.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Ministers%20Index.htm >> >> cheers >> Judy > > I'm getting a "Server not found" message, hmmm. > ac Ehrm ... suppose I should dial-up the modem first? Apologies, Alison (blame it on the hayfever + Benadryl) Causton in Nova Scotia ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== FIND YOUR ANCESTORS http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04
I am trying to find a marriage between Robert LAURIE and Hellen MENZIES. In 1881 this couple were living at Warwick St Nicholas in England. Robert was 71 and a retired Draper, Hellen is 64. Both state they are from Dumfries. I have been told that Robert is in Warwick on the 1841 census- Robert Laurie , age 30, draper, SCT was in the Market Sq William Laurie, age 40, draper, SCT in New St but have yet to get a copy of the entry for him, my gt gt grandfather John MENZIES also a Draper from Dumfries is on the 1841 census for Newark, Nottinghamshire. Was there a training school in Dumfries for Drapers? Is anyone researching the LAURIE surname? Dorothy Holden nee MENZIES Dover Kent England Uk --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04
this link was posted to the UK North & Scotland Yahoo list. Should appeal to a few folk here. http://www.dwalker.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Ministers%20Index.htm cheers Judy
----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Ritchie To: Lowlandscot@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Martha Ritchie Hi Irene, I must investigate becoming a member of D&GFHS. I had thought that all its advantages were available to people able to visit in person and with me stuck out in Australia it wasn't feasible. From another descendant of Martha,via Genes Reunited, from the 1851 Census,Martha,a widow,age 54, was living at 57 Highland Cottages,Kirkandrews on Esk with children - Mary(23),Samuel(17),James(12),new addition Hellen(5?) and grandson Walter Irving( 5),all born in Scotland. Apart from a minor discrepancy of a couple of years in the ages of the three older children these are our Martha's children. In addition a Walter Ritchie,age 17,working as a farm servant at Bush Farm,Kirkandrews is the right age to be another of Martha's sons. In the 1861 Census Martha was living at Inch Farm,Netherby Estate,Kirkandrews on Esk with her family but Walter (grandson)(15) appears to have adopted the Ritchie surname. The Genes Reunited contact is descended from this Walter Ritchie. I am descended from Martha via her eldest son,John Ritchie, who was living in Eaglesfield,Dumfries,in 1861,after a few years sojourn in Carlisle. John,along with his family,moved back to Carlisle in 1865ish and spent the rest of his life there. Ian Ritchie ----- Original Message ----- From: Lowlandscot@aol.com To: iritchie1@iprimus.com.au Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Martha Ritchie In a message dated 23/08/2004 11:54:31 GMT Daylight Time, iritchie1@iprimus.com.au writes: Martha Ritchie died July 22nd,1884,aged 88 at English Street,Annan where she had been living with two sons. Martha was noted as a widow by 1851 so Walter had predeceased her. Her two sons,James and Angus,neither of whom appear to have married, eventually died at the same location so they may very well be buried in the same spot. If you are a member of the D and G FHS Sandy will do a look up for MIs for you...via the website. Having transcribed the Annan old burial ground ones I've checked that Walter is not there. I've got a vague memory of talking about this family before ..a trawl through my mail ....aha .... found it. Martha is in Annan in 1841 and then disappears....to possibly reappear in 1881. So have you found her in 1851? Not all graves had a gravestone and not all gravestones survived to be transcribed in the 20th century. Do you descend from one of Martha's sons? Irene
On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 08:39 AM, Alison Causton wrote: > On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 07:29 AM, J A Olsen wrote: > >> this link was posted to the UK North & Scotland Yahoo list. Should >> appeal to >> a few folk here. >> >> http://www.dwalker.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Ministers%20Index.htm >> >> cheers >> Judy > > I'm getting a "Server not found" message, hmmm. > ac Ehrm ... suppose I should dial-up the modem first? Apologies, Alison (blame it on the hayfever + Benadryl) Causton in Nova Scotia
On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 07:29 AM, J A Olsen wrote: > this link was posted to the UK North & Scotland Yahoo list. Should > appeal to > a few folk here. > > http://www.dwalker.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Ministers%20Index.htm > > cheers > Judy I'm getting a "Server not found" message, hmmm. ac
In a message dated 24/08/2004 10:57:46 GMT Daylight Time, DMHolden@ntlworld.com writes: Was there a training school in Dumfries for Drapers? No but many young men from the Galoway region were recruited as drapers. A founder member of the D and G FHS has studied this and below are the sketchy notes I took during a recent talk on the subject he gave to the society........... there are other notes on the talk in the recent society newsletter, and articles on the subject in previous newsletters Innes had used the Dumfries and Welsh newspapers as sources ...plenty of adverts ...... looking for young 17-20 years old men of farming stock and used to the hard physical work of agriculture (because they had to carry bales of cloth on a round that might be 10 or 12 miles long) to become scotch drapers and tea dealers ..tea because it had such a high profit margin. The young men went off all over England but heaviest concentration in Lancashire and Methyr Tydfil.... biggest town in Wales in early 19th century. Whitechapel in London. Many came from the Glenkens area and Balmaclellan. Wages offered were £7-£10 per annum in the 1840s to about £20-25 in the 1850s and 60s + board and lodging and often clothes at cost price. Sometimes instead of wages they were offered a promise to set them up in business at the end of the 3 years. Often those advertising for young men were the older successful ones who'd started off the same way but now had acquired several 'rounds' and employed the young men to do the actual physical walking round with the goods. They wanted sturdy, sober (even teetotal) young men, not older than about 21, and definitely with no previous experience of being a draper. And adequate education ..basic writing and arithmetic ....not over educated. Because the business was run on credit and with illiterate customers there were lots of opportunities for fiddling and embezzlement...so no-one who might have the experience or the intelligence to do this was wanted. One chap was sacked for having an Irish mother. They would have to apply by letter to England or perhaps to local agent ...often schoolmaster or innkeeper. If successful they would probably walk to their new job..... or possibly take a ship to Liverpool..but stage coach would be too expensive. Successful ones, after working for 10 years or so and recruiting others to work for them, could acquire enough money to buy a farm ..not unusual to have made £2000 in the 1820s and 30s and even £5000 in the 1870s. There were quite a few newspaper reports of exhorbitant rates of interest and excessive profits...led to the formation of the Scotch Drapers Association ..to defend the trade against such attacks. Irene