Hello! Does anyone have information to share about David Montgomery of Auchinhood (of Peacockbank of Stewarton parish or of Kilbirnie, Ayrshire, Scotland) and Gartscadden (of Clifton Easter Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire, Scotland) and Margaret McMurich (or McMurchie)? Their marriage date is estimated as in 1674 or early 1675, and she died 28 January 1675 (which date comes from her testament in the COMMISSARIOT RECORD OF GLASGOW REGISTER OF TESTAMENTS, Vol. 39-40 (1675-1680), SLCFHL Film 231166. It is thought that she may be the daughter of Thomas McMurchie and his wife Jonet McBlain or McBlair mentioned in another Film of COMMISSARIOT OF GLASGOW records, Vol. 37-38 (1674-1677), SLCFHL Film 231165. Since she was deceased by the time of this testament of her supposed father, Thomas Murchie in Grolorg(?)or Drolarg in the parish of Girvan (Ayrshire, Scotland), she is not mentioned therein, but Thomas's widow Joan McBlain or McBlair is mentioned and Thomas's son lawful John William [Murchie] and his daughter unlawful Jonet Murchie are mentioned. If you have any information about this couple, or any suggestions for how I may find information about them, please inform me. Sincerely, Meg M. Blackhurst

unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D-request@rootsweb.com To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:00 PM Subject: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D Digest V04 #289

Hello, If anybody has SLOANs and CARLYLEs in the Dornock area, especially in the early-to-mid 19th century, I'd like to hear about them. Margo www.makh.co.uk

Hi all, I have been looking for a place called Auchennaught. Does anyone know where it is? I have tried the following sites with no success. http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/scotland.html www.old-maps.co.uk http://www.nls.uk/digitallibrary/map/early/index.html http://www.heartoscotland.com/Products/scotlandmaps.htm So if anyone can help me locate this place, probably a farm, I would appreciate it. Thanks Margo Lurvey

Hello ever-one, Will some-one help me with a marriage or children for a John IRVING who was bapt. 16-09-1773 Middlebie (born at the Kirtlebridge Smithy, son of a Blacksmith, David IRVING) who died 1817, April 21. at Millhouse, age 44 years. (From the O.P.R. Deaths in 1817). Where would I look other than the I.G.I.? Thanks, Betty Irving in Australia. P.S. Does any-one know the new Email Address of John IRVING (O.N.S.)

I think that would be unconnected. A bit of a google confirms what I suspected, that the North and South Britain concept is tied up with the Act of Union of 1707. It could be seen as fashion, a nod towards rationalisation, a naked attempt to crush Scottish identity, or all three. Odd that 1940s Nationalists put NB after Scotland on their envelopes. Perhaps they were being ironic. There was (briefly) a newspaper called the North Briton. Of course there are also political implications to calling a paper in Cornwall the "West Briton"! Judy ---------- >From: Jean and Tom Ellis <jellis@pasty.com> >To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] NB >Date: 04, Thu Nov, 2004, 11:57 am > > Iain's question about West Britain is interesting. A newspaper in > Cornwall is known as the West Briton. > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ >

Hello! Anyone with information about David Montgomerie and/or Margaret McMurich of Murchtie/Murctie of Gartscadden, parish of Clifton Easter Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire, Scotland?--their marriage estimated 1675. She may be related to the Murchtie family of Girvan parish, Ayrshire, Scotland. He was also known to be of Auchinhove or Auchinhood, Stewarton parish, Ayrshire, Scotland. Anyone know of any sources for my obtaining information on them, their families? Surely appreciate being enabled to ask, and will appreciate any help. Thank you, Meg

Iain said, "I don't suppose England was ever referred to as South Britain?" According to my source, it was indeed. This topic was pursued in the Scots magazine Feb 2000 letter pages. One letter says, "...the description North Britain for Scotland was used as long ago as 1606, and England was indeed referred to as South Britain. To resolve differences over the bearing of flags by Scottish and English ships, James VI decreed that the crosses of St Andrew and St George would be combined as one flag, the Union flag, and that "in their fore-top our subjects of south Britian shall wear the red cross only, as they wont, and our subjects of north Britain in their fore-top, the whilte cross only as they were accustomed.'" There are other letters on the subject, but the term was in use in the 1900s, and was used on both sides of the border. It was in official use from 1707. There are evidently still 4 enterprises listed under the heading "North British" in the Edinburgh phone diresctory. So it evidently wasn't a wicked English plot! Janet

Yes, it at the moment it is 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It used to be the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland'. And the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey are a part of the British Isles but not part of the UK or GB. Watch this space! Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavendersblue To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: 04 November 2004 10:52 Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] NB Being a 1960's baby, I've always known Scotland to be Scotland, Wales to be Wales etc. However, since following this thread (and I must confess that at first I thought "here we go again; let's have a stab at the English"!!), it has made me start thinking. Watching the weather forecast on the TV, they do actually say "in the north" and "in the south" etc. I live in the North West, but that is North West England, so on the national weather forecast we don't exist! Then there is confusion over United Kingdom, and Great Britain. GB includes all of Ireland, and UK does not include southern Ireland (Republic of Ireland). My brother-in-law is from Belfast, and he insists that he is not Irish, but is British. That is just him, and obviously does not reflect any general opinion. The regional differences within Britain is so evident, so it must be enormous in America. British history tends really to be English history, but even in England we still have the north-south divide. My ancestors were from the Republic and from Scotland, all mixed together in the great Liverpool melting pot. Good wishes to ALL!! Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: "J A Olsen" <Copywriter@tesco.net> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] NB > that's right.eg there was a North British hotel in Edinburgh until > recently,now renamed. > > But I would say the fashion for calling the country North Britain was > fairly > short lived. I think Sir Walter Scott had something to do with it, but > could > be wrong on that. > > I've seen letters addressed to 'North Britain' so it was widely used. > > Judy > > > > > > ---------- >>From: Jessie & Tom Lennie <jestom@shaw.ca> >>To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: [D-G LIST] NB >>Date: 03, Wed Nov, 2004, 4:32 pm >> > >> Scotland was known as North Britain at least until the 1900s. >> Jessie & Tom Lennie >> Port Coquitlam BC >> Canada >> Family Tree >> www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/2856 >> All incoming & Outgoing messages checked by Norton Antivirus 2004 >> >> >> ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== >> FIND YOUR ANCESTORS >> http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ >> > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > If your line involves the surname BRUCE why not join > CLAN-BRUCE-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== FIND YOUR ANCESTORS http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/

Yes, I believe the North British Hotels were railway hotels owned by the North British Railway Company. The Millenium Hotel in Glasgow's George Square was one of them - you can still see the NB logo high on the facade. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: J A Olsen To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: 03 November 2004 19:44 Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] NB that's right.eg there was a North British hotel in Edinburgh until recently,now renamed. But I would say the fashion for calling the country North Britain was fairly short lived. I think Sir Walter Scott had something to do with it, but could be wrong on that. I've seen letters addressed to 'North Britain' so it was widely used. Judy ---------- >From: Jessie & Tom Lennie <jestom@shaw.ca> >To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [D-G LIST] NB >Date: 03, Wed Nov, 2004, 4:32 pm > > Scotland was known as North Britain at least until the 1900s. > Jessie & Tom Lennie > Port Coquitlam BC > Canada > Family Tree > www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/2856 > All incoming & Outgoing messages checked by Norton Antivirus 2004 > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If your line involves the surname BRUCE why not join CLAN-BRUCE-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Being a 1960's baby, I've always known Scotland to be Scotland, Wales to be Wales etc. However, since following this thread (and I must confess that at first I thought "here we go again; let's have a stab at the English"!!), it has made me start thinking. Watching the weather forecast on the TV, they do actually say "in the north" and "in the south" etc. I live in the North West, but that is North West England, so on the national weather forecast we don't exist! Then there is confusion over United Kingdom, and Great Britain. GB includes all of Ireland, and UK does not include southern Ireland (Republic of Ireland). My brother-in-law is from Belfast, and he insists that he is not Irish, but is British. That is just him, and obviously does not reflect any general opinion. The regional differences within Britain is so evident, so it must be enormous in America. British history tends really to be English history, but even in England we still have the north-south divide. My ancestors were from the Republic and from Scotland, all mixed together in the great Liverpool melting pot. Good wishes to ALL!! Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: "J A Olsen" <Copywriter@tesco.net> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] NB > that's right.eg there was a North British hotel in Edinburgh until > recently,now renamed. > > But I would say the fashion for calling the country North Britain was > fairly > short lived. I think Sir Walter Scott had something to do with it, but > could > be wrong on that. > > I've seen letters addressed to 'North Britain' so it was widely used. > > Judy > > > > > > ---------- >>From: Jessie & Tom Lennie <jestom@shaw.ca> >>To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: [D-G LIST] NB >>Date: 03, Wed Nov, 2004, 4:32 pm >> > >> Scotland was known as North Britain at least until the 1900s. >> Jessie & Tom Lennie >> Port Coquitlam BC >> Canada >> Family Tree >> www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/2856 >> All incoming & Outgoing messages checked by Norton Antivirus 2004 >> >> >> ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== >> FIND YOUR ANCESTORS >> http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ >> > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > If your line involves the surname BRUCE why not join > CLAN-BRUCE-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >

Most interesting, Jan. Was 'South Britain', or 'S.B.' commonly used on correspondence? It's the terminology that people were adopting in their personal habits, like letter-writing, that I find of particular interest. And now really let me be the devil's advocate - was Wales every referred to as 'West Britain'? And pre-1922 Ireland? Of companies, ones that come to mind were the North British Railway Company (until 1923) and the North British Locomotive Company (1903-1962). Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan McLeod To: Iain Hutchison ; DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: 04 November 2004 00:26 Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] NB Iain said, "I don't suppose England was ever referred to as South Britain?" According to my source, it was indeed. This topic was pursued in the Scots magazine Feb 2000 letter pages. One letter says, "...the description North Britain for Scotland was used as long ago as 1606, and England was indeed referred to as South Britain. To resolve differences over the bearing of flags by Scottish and English ships, James VI decreed that the crosses of St Andrew and St George would be combined as one flag, the Union flag, and that "in their fore-top our subjects of south Britian shall wear the red cross only, as they wont, and our subjects of north Britain in their fore-top, the whilte cross only as they were accustomed.'" There are other letters on the subject, but the term was in use in the 1900s, and was used on both sides of the border. It was in official use from 1707. There are evidently still 4 enterprises listed under the heading "North British" in the Edinburgh phone diresctory. So it evidently wasn't a wicked English plot! Janet

Iain's question about West Britain is interesting. A newspaper in Cornwall is known as the West Briton.

Thank you to all those who answered my queries. It is most appreciated Kay

Can you expand on that? I don't suppose England was ever referred to as South Britain? Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles & Ruth Houston To: Iain Hutchison ; DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: 03 November 2004 22:02 Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] NB It was all to do with England not having to mention Scotland

It was all to do with England not having to mention Scotland

Alison: I have a 'relative' who lives near Annandale Estates. You may already have this information, but: She writes: Annandale Estates is owned by the Earl of Annandale and Hartfell of Raehills, St Anns. The estate covers a large area N.E. of Dumfries around St Ann's on the A701. there is a farm Blackburn on the estate. Dumfries Archive Centre will hold records on the area so worth contacting them can be found under the Dumfries and Galloway website. Hope this Helps Denise Kurkowski JACKSON,OLIVER,ARCHIBALD,HART,TAIT,ARMSTRONG

Hi all, I wouldn't go as far as to say that Scotland was 'known' as North Britain until the 1900s, but the term 'North Britain', usually abbreviated to 'N.B.', was widely used for addressing correspondence during the nineteenth century. Personally I would regard it more as a 'fashion' amongst certain segments of the population rather than anything else during that time. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Jessie & Tom Lennie To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: 03 November 2004 16:32 Subject: [D-G LIST] NB Scotland was known as North Britain at least until the 1900s. Jessie & Tom Lennie Port Coquitlam BC Canada Family Tree www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/2856 All incoming & Outgoing messages checked by Norton Antivirus 2004 ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== FIND YOUR ANCESTORS http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/

that's right.eg there was a North British hotel in Edinburgh until recently,now renamed. But I would say the fashion for calling the country North Britain was fairly short lived. I think Sir Walter Scott had something to do with it, but could be wrong on that. I've seen letters addressed to 'North Britain' so it was widely used. Judy ---------- >From: Jessie & Tom Lennie <jestom@shaw.ca> >To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [D-G LIST] NB >Date: 03, Wed Nov, 2004, 4:32 pm > > Scotland was known as North Britain at least until the 1900s. > Jessie & Tom Lennie > Port Coquitlam BC > Canada > Family Tree > www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/2856 > All incoming & Outgoing messages checked by Norton Antivirus 2004 > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ >

I would be very interested in the MI's of Kirkbean graveyard as I know that McMyn ancestors will be interred there. McMyns still live in the area. Thank you for any help , Margaret in NZ.