The word 'kilt' is derived from the Danish Viking word meaning 'to gird'. (i.e. - the Kam in Cameron derives from the Danish Viking root 'kam'.) The female name "Grizel" is from the Gaelic and is often 'translated' into the English "Grace". The names "Johnstone(pronounced John=SON), and "Irving" are often stated to be of Norse Viking origin. (i.e. - the Normans were NORSE from the Orkneys). Dublin(Lindow/or, Dark Lake)is from the Gaelic(dubh= dark) but the city was once a Norse Viking capital. The Belgae Celts entered the British Isles from the Netherlands on the European continent. The Iberians(Welsh) are stated to have come from 'Spain,.' hence the language was different to the Scotch/Irish(Erse/Gaelic). Dumfriesshire was originally settled by the Celts and Norse.

In a message dated 15/11/2004 01:06:50 GMT Standard Time, mrichson@ix.netcom.com writes: This is a condition where a joint is missing from fingers and/or toes. It strikes me that a missing joint could cause abnormal curling. Not in Dupuytren's ...it's caused by a thickening of the tendon sheath. Irene

At 04:39 PM 11/14/04, Epaxton@aol.com wrote: >My father has Dupuytren's Closure, where the fingers close into the palm, >which a genetic research project has discovered came from the Vikings, as >there >is an area in South Ireland where they never reached where the gene is not to >be found. > >I have traced his ancestors to Kintyre, which I believe is the likely source >of this gene. Remember the Battle of Largs which defeated the Vikings. > >Mar sin leat > >edward >Limpsfield, Surrey Dear Edward -- I descend from Scottish BROWNs who suffer from symphalangism. This is a condition where a joint is missing from fingers and/or toes. It strikes me that a missing joint could cause abnormal curling. Mary Richardson

Yes, the Scots came from Ireland, the Picts were here already. Gaelic isn't the 'original' language of Scotland, not by a long chalk. Judy ---------- >From: "David Thomson" <orkboyz@lineone.net> >To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Why Gaelic? >Date: 14, Sun Nov, 2004, 2:44 pm > > One point, however, that stuck in my mind, was that it seems that the > 'Celt/Gaelic' connection comes from Ireland. Would you know any more about > this?

Hello fellow list members, When I made my posting concerning the Dumfries 1841 Free Census Project on the 24th of October, I promised updates on the project. So here is the first one! First, the home page has moved. It is now at www.rootsweb.com/~sctdfsfc . If you visit you will see that currently 28% of the pieces (parishes and parts of large parishes) have been assigned to individual transcribers, and that one of the pieces has finished being transcribed! Of course there is much to do before any transcribed pieces go on line: they must be checked by a proofreader, then validated in order to remove as many discrepencies as possible that are left over from the previous stages. Only then, when the files are as accurate as possible, will the data go on line. We are making progress, but could still use help. This transcription project works with scanned images of the census pages, so you don't have to work with bulky microfilm or microfiche readers, but rather can view all the images and do all the transcribing right on your own computer! If you see a parish that would interest you to transcribe, let me (Thomas Daly) know at thomas.daly@stgeorges.qc.ca . That's all for now, but I will continue to keep you informed of the progress of the project. Thomas Daly

My father has Dupuytren's Closure, where the fingers close into the palm, which a genetic research project has discovered came from the Vikings, as there is an area in South Ireland where they never reached where the gene is not to be found. I have traced his ancestors to Kintyre, which I believe is the likely source of this gene. Remember the Battle of Largs which defeated the Vikings. Mar sin leat edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton SystemWorks

First thought - is this not something of a 'flash'? I am a late starter on genealogy, but have always had pride in being a British Scot. You obviously have knowledge of Scotland that I have never researched, so far. With the idea in mind that my ancestory was Celt, several years ago I started out to read a book about Celts, thinking it might give me some kind of idea of the overall roots of my family. I found the book very tedious and the Celts very elusive. One point, however, that stuck in my mind, was that it seems that the 'Celt/Gaelic' connection comes from Ireland. Would you know any more about this? ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Milligan" <jimbobaloobub@btinternet.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 12:03 PM Subject: [D-G LIST] Why Gaelic? > I am surprised that so many people, especially on this list, are taken in by the notion that we are somehow connected to Gaelic culture - witness a call for a Gaelic passport. What absolutely self deluding, pathetic, romantic nonsense. Historically we are not. This myth struck up with the Victorian novelists and has the world thinking we are haggis eating, kilt wearing Gaelic whinging twits. OK, go back several hundred years and people from South West Scotland did speak some form of Gaelic (perhaps more associated more with Cardiff than Stornoway) - but then go back even further and we were probably all Ethiopians. > > My own GGGGF Robert Milligan, portioner of Dempsterton, Dunscore (b1723), very probably had bitter feelings towards the 'Highland host' - those from the north who were billeted in the South West in the 1600's to quell the religious rights of the native population. > > The majority of the 'Highland' army at Culloden were Episcopalian. A great bulk of the 'British' army were Scottish. The first thing Robert the Bruce did after Bannockburn was invade his 'native Gaels' - i.e. Ireland. The history goes on and on... > > Although untrendy and not politically correct, some of us are proud to be BRITISH. > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ >

Unfortunate this did not come up a week or two earlier. There was a repeat on TV (channel I cannot remember) about a Scottish/Sikh comedian (from Glasgow I think, with a brother working for the London Met. police). Featured was a kilt shop run by a man with Polish and/or Russian? background wearing a denim kilt. It appears that there is a Singh tartan. Not surprising really. Men "wearing skirts" don't all come from Scotland. David ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnASaul@aol.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:29 PM Subject: [D-G LIST] Kilts > Having just seen the posting on Gaelic made me think of this. Yesterday, in > north Devon, we passed a couple out walking and the man was wearing a denim > kilt. I've not seen one before and didn't know they existed. Is there any > significance in this, other than denim being in fashion? The lady was just > wearing ordinary trousers. > > Carol > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > ********************************** > YOU HAVE ENTERED A FLAME FREE ZONE > ********************************** >

Mr. Milligan: I would concede your point that many people from South Western Scotland have no Celtic blood in them. I would also concede your point that far too many people don't understand that Scotland was, since perhaps before the Celtics started to make in roads upon the Picts, a "melting pot" of a number of different ethnicities. But then, aren't all nations are a mozaic of pre-existing ethnic groups. I don't think a group called the "English" morphed out of monkeys one day and have ever since been called "English". This is not to say that their should be Gaelic passports. A passport--other than being a form of identification--is a request by Government A to Government B to protect the a citizen of Government A's country while that citizen is within Government B's country. As there is no Gaelic government or Gaelic country (Scotland is only part Gaelic), it does not make sense for someone in an historically Gaelic part of Scotland having a different passport from someone else in the United Kingdom. However there is no cause to you post such things as "haggis eating, kilt wearing Gaelic whinging twits". There is no need to insult those with true Gaelic/Highland heritage. Make your point less caustically. Jeffery Davidson ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Milligan" <jimbobaloobub@btinternet.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 5:03 AM Subject: [D-G LIST] Why Gaelic? > I am surprised that so many people, especially on this list, are taken in by the notion that we are somehow connected to Gaelic culture - witness a call for a Gaelic passport. What absolutely self deluding, pathetic, romantic nonsense. Historically we are not. This myth struck up with the Victorian novelists and has the world thinking we are haggis eating, kilt wearing Gaelic whinging twits. OK, go back several hundred years and people from South West Scotland did speak some form of Gaelic (perhaps more associated more with Cardiff than Stornoway) - but then go back even further and we were probably all Ethiopians. > > My own GGGGF Robert Milligan, portioner of Dempsterton, Dunscore (b1723), very probably had bitter feelings towards the 'Highland host' - those from the north who were billeted in the South West in the 1600's to quell the religious rights of the native population. > > The majority of the 'Highland' army at Culloden were Episcopalian. A great bulk of the 'British' army were Scottish. The first thing Robert the Bruce did after Bannockburn was invade his 'native Gaels' - i.e. Ireland. The history goes on and on... > > Although untrendy and not politically correct, some of us are proud to be BRITISH. > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ > >

David, Recalling from a history paper on Scottish Nationalism at the time of union (1707) I did in the 1980's, the thinking then was that very early (ie. prior to the Romans), Celtic people immigranted from Spain to Ireland across the sea. From there, this "Irish" Celts or Gaels began to immigrant into Scotland and slowly integrated with or overran a group called the Picts (who in the 80's we knew little about). It is thought that the Gaels first stated to settle in Scotland at Argyle. There is a myth/legend of the first "Scottish" king in Argyle named "Fergus I". Celtic culture spread from Argyle to predominate the Highlands. As Anglo-Saxons moved in to England, they also moved in to Scotland. Generally, the Anglo-Saxons moved into lowland areas. There were also Vikings (I don't recall if which Scandinavian country we would now associate them with) who settled places like Aberdeen and places on the outer islands. The Shetland Islands were only very recently annexed to Scotland from a Scandinavian Country (19th or 20th Century) and the Orkneys also used to be part of Scandinavia (16th to 18th Century?). Scotland is a melting pot of many groups. However by the rule of Robert the Bruce (13th Century), Gaelic culture predominated the Highlands (clan system, Gaelic language, etc) and Anglo-Saxon culture predominated the lowlands (feudal system, Scots language (a delict of English)). This Highland/Lowland split was politically important in Scotland as, by the rule of Mary Queen of Scots, lowlanders generally became protestants (Church of Scotland) and highlanders generally remained Catholic. After the Glorious Revelution, throw into this religious division a Catholic house of Stewart claiming the United Kingdom and a Protestant monarch in London and you have the makings of several Jacobite uprisings. As a generally rule, you could consider those with Highland ancestry as likely having Celtic or Gaelic forebears. Lowlanders could have had ancestors from almost anywhere. Jeffery Davidson ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Thomson" <orkboyz@lineone.net> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Why Gaelic? > First thought - is this not something of a 'flash'? > > I am a late starter on genealogy, but have always had pride in being a > British Scot. > > You obviously have knowledge of Scotland that I have never researched, so > far. With the idea in mind that my ancestory was Celt, several years ago I > started out to read a book about Celts, thinking it might give me some kind > of idea of the overall roots of my family. I found the book very tedious and > the Celts very elusive. > > One point, however, that stuck in my mind, was that it seems that the > 'Celt/Gaelic' connection comes from Ireland. Would you know any more about > this? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Milligan" <jimbobaloobub@btinternet.com> > To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 12:03 PM > Subject: [D-G LIST] Why Gaelic? > > > > I am surprised that so many people, especially on this list, are taken in > by the notion that we are somehow connected to Gaelic culture - witness a > call for a Gaelic passport. What absolutely self deluding, pathetic, > romantic nonsense. Historically we are not. This myth struck up with the > Victorian novelists and has the world thinking we are haggis eating, kilt > wearing Gaelic whinging twits. OK, go back several hundred years and people > from South West Scotland did speak some form of Gaelic (perhaps more > associated more with Cardiff than Stornoway) - but then go back even further > and we were probably all Ethiopians. > > > > My own GGGGF Robert Milligan, portioner of Dempsterton, Dunscore (b1723), > very probably had bitter feelings towards the 'Highland host' - those from > the north who were billeted in the South West in the 1600's to quell the > religious rights of the native population. > > > > The majority of the 'Highland' army at Culloden were Episcopalian. A great > bulk of the 'British' army were Scottish. The first thing Robert the Bruce > did after Bannockburn was invade his 'native Gaels' - i.e. Ireland. The > history goes on and on... > > > > Although untrendy and not politically correct, some of us are proud to be > BRITISH. > > > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ > > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ > >

Firstly, as a point of interest, James's GGGGF was from Dunscore - a name which seems to have quite definite Gaelic derivation. And why should Gaelic not be given a place on passports? Perhaps this needs clarification. My guess is that what is being introduced for Welsh, and is being suggested for Gaelic, relates to the section of British/EU passports that currently appear in several languages. Already there is English, French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, Dutch, Swedish, Finnish, Danish, Greek and IRISH Gaeilge. I suspect that newer issues now include Polish, Czech, Estonian, Maltese, etc., etc. So why not Gaelic? This would fit in with the spirit and intent of the Gaelic Language Bill that was presented to Parliament in September. There is really no need for those with no interest in Gaelic or understanding of it to feel threatened by it. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: James Milligan To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: 14 November 2004 12:03 Subject: [D-G LIST] Why Gaelic? I am surprised that so many people, especially on this list, are taken in by the notion that we are somehow connected to Gaelic culture - witness a call for a Gaelic passport. What absolutely self deluding, pathetic, romantic nonsense. Historically we are not. This myth struck up with the Victorian novelists and has the world thinking we are haggis eating, kilt wearing Gaelic whinging twits. OK, go back several hundred years and people from South West Scotland did speak some form of Gaelic (perhaps more associated more with Cardiff than Stornoway) - but then go back even further and we were probably all Ethiopians. My own GGGGF Robert Milligan, portioner of Dempsterton, Dunscore (b1723), very probably had bitter feelings towards the 'Highland host' - those from the north who were billeted in the South West in the 1600's to quell the religious rights of the native population. The majority of the 'Highland' army at Culloden were Episcopalian. A great bulk of the 'British' army were Scottish. The first thing Robert the Bruce did after Bannockburn was invade his 'native Gaels' - i.e. Ireland. The history goes on and on... Although untrendy and not politically correct, some of us are proud to be BRITISH. ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== FIND YOUR ANCESTORS http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/

I am surprised that so many people, especially on this list, are taken in by the notion that we are somehow connected to Gaelic culture - witness a call for a Gaelic passport. What absolutely self deluding, pathetic, romantic nonsense. Historically we are not. This myth struck up with the Victorian novelists and has the world thinking we are haggis eating, kilt wearing Gaelic whinging twits. OK, go back several hundred years and people from South West Scotland did speak some form of Gaelic (perhaps more associated more with Cardiff than Stornoway) - but then go back even further and we were probably all Ethiopians. My own GGGGF Robert Milligan, portioner of Dempsterton, Dunscore (b1723), very probably had bitter feelings towards the 'Highland host' - those from the north who were billeted in the South West in the 1600's to quell the religious rights of the native population. The majority of the 'Highland' army at Culloden were Episcopalian. A great bulk of the 'British' army were Scottish. The first thing Robert the Bruce did after Bannockburn was invade his 'native Gaels' - i.e. Ireland. The history goes on and on... Although untrendy and not politically correct, some of us are proud to be BRITISH.

Having just seen the posting on Gaelic made me think of this. Yesterday, in north Devon, we passed a couple out walking and the man was wearing a denim kilt. I've not seen one before and didn't know they existed. Is there any significance in this, other than denim being in fashion? The lady was just wearing ordinary trousers. Carol

I received this the other day and thought some of you might be inerested: Sign the Petition! An online petition has been started calling upon the UK Passport Agency to make available a Scottish Gaelic passport as planned for the Welsh language. Submissions are welcome from around the world. To sign the petition online visit: _http://www.petitiononline.com/yhc5UiP/_ (http://www.petitiononline.com/yhc5UiP/) It's a quick and easy process so join the petition now!_http://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...icons/icon7.gif_ (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif) Mar sin leat edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton SystemWorks

Hi Jeffery, The British Vital Records Index 2nd Edition has much the same information as the LDS site www.familysearch.org . However, we found that there were some entries on the discs that weren't available online and vice versa. Going to the site you will see that there is an online product/download service, or alternatively you can go to 'library' then 'family history centre' do a search for the area you're in and contact the nearest library. They'll let you know what they have in the library that you can access for a small fee and can also tell you where their nearest distribution centre is for products for sale, we've found that they're usually located near their temples. Happy hunting! Leeona ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffery K. Davidson" <jdavidson@rathandcompany.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: British Vital Records Index > Hello gang, > > I understand there are CD's out there called the British Vital Records > Index. Could someone tell me what type of information is on these CD's. > And could a Canadian (or someone reasonable familiar with software > distribution or with shopping in Canada) please tell me how best someone in > Canada (ie. me or someone Christmas shopping for me) acquire a copy of the > British Vital Records Index CD's? Thanks > > Jeffery Davidson > > ______________________________

Could Jim Maclean pls contact me off list -- Jane Brayshaw FreeCEN Coordinator for the Stewartry (Kirkcudbright) Castle Douglas, Scotland

You are looking for: British Isles Vital Records Index, 2nd Edition Item #50126000 (16 CDs) Canadian LDS order phone number is 1-800-537-5971 Cost $20 (US) a bargain! Order online from: http://www.ldscatalog.com/ The British Isles Vital Records Index (2nd Edition) includes: * Civil and church records dated from 1530 to 1906. * Approximately 12.3 million total records on 16 compact discs, plus the Family History Resource File Viewer disc, which is used to view the information. * Birth and christening records that include the individual's name, parents' names, and date and place where the event was registered. * Marriage records that include the individual's name, name of spouse, date and place of marriage, and parents' names when available. * Reference information that helps you locate original records on microfilm. Jeffery K. Davidson wrote: >Hello gang, > >I understand there are CD's out there called the British Vital Records >Index. Could someone tell me what type of information is on these CD's. >And could a Canadian (or someone reasonable familiar with software >distribution or with shopping in Canada) please tell me how best someone in >Canada (ie. me or someone Christmas shopping for me) acquire a copy of the >British Vital Records Index CD's? Thanks > >Jeffery Davidson > >

Hello gang, I understand there are CD's out there called the British Vital Records Index. Could someone tell me what type of information is on these CD's. And could a Canadian (or someone reasonable familiar with software distribution or with shopping in Canada) please tell me how best someone in Canada (ie. me or someone Christmas shopping for me) acquire a copy of the British Vital Records Index CD's? Thanks Jeffery Davidson

Hi I would be grateful if SKS who has access to the 1851 census for Mochrum could look up the folloing household Sequence Number 336, Page 5, Enumeration District 5 Name of Head of household Peter Milhench. I would be interested to know the details of this Peter and his household to see if he connects with our family. Thanks Cathy

Hi, Alan - Noting your good long entry on Griersons, I picked up on this note below, about Gilbert (nee MacGregor) Grierson. Are these Dumfriesshire MacGregors and Griersons (usually a name-change from MacGregor and meaning the same thing) related to the highland MacGregors, and if so do you know how and when? Or what Malcolm Dominus' feudal lands would have been? Just curious, (and wondering if my great-aunt might have had a point after all, in one of her alleged family connections) Muff The deceased were of the same family as the Griersons of Lag, their common ancestor having been GILBERT [nee MacGregor] GRIERSON, second son of the Celtic thane [11th feudal Lord of MacGregor] Malcolm Dominus de Macgregor, who about five hundred years ago settled in Dumfriesshire. - Unquote Muff Worden Ranargata 3 710 Seydisfjordur Iceland Phone: +354-472-1775 Mobile/Cell/GSM: +354-849-2744 Web: www.geocities.com/mworden.geo/