G'day Listers, I am hoping that SKS may be able to help me sort out/find members of my family. Let me give you a run down of my family ties to Dumfries. I have a convict ancestor, who was sent here to Australia. His name was Alexander McKENZIE, he was born 1822 Dumfries, Scotland. His parents were James McKENZIE and Catherine BROWN. James McKENZIE left Scotland and went to Canada/America at some stage, as it has been said that he was in "trouble' with a woman named Marey HUNTER, who had a child to him, it cost James upwards of 100 pounds to settle it. James had inherited a "handsome fortune" left to him and his brothers & sisters by an Uncle that died in England. (no names were mentioned in the letter) In the letter dated 1857 to Alexander from his brother Andrew the following names were mentioned: Uncle Andrew (no surname mentioned). Sisters; Jennet (married a shoe maker by the name of NEWAL), Marey, Agness (married a man name of REMON). Brother William (Andrew had heard that he had married too). Uncle Thomas EDGAR. Andrew himself had married Jane SMALL (from Hoddam), their family consisted of Andrew Alexander, James, Thomas, & Cath, plus three dead (by the time Andrew wrote the letter). The letter was postmarked from Annan, Scotland 1857. I have no idea when Andrew would have been born. Or when his children were born either. Any information would be gratefully appreciated on any members of this family. I would love to hear from people related to these members too. There is a rather large family line here in Australia now thanks to Alexander McKenzie being transported to Tasmania in 1839. Alexander had 10 children, and there are many more from there down. Thanking you all, Melissa in OZ.

I am now up to census, worked out the translation for words thanks to the many people on this list. If someone was in the forces (I am referring to the earlier census up to 1871 here) either the army or even listed as a 'mariner' why is it I cannot locate them on the census yet find the wife & children and other family members of the various forces (the wife was listed as an husband of a Royal Engineer). Or is it my eyes are going cross-eyed from reading the films too much? Barbara Confused, cross-eyed & getting tired In a wet & windy Auckland (NZ) day

To all that I might have missed thanking personnally, thank you. I had in mind Official Parish Records but didn't quite think that was correct. Thanks again Barbara

I know that the letters IGI stand for the International Genealogical Index, but what about OPR? I am also trying to relate the terms County & Parish & Borough into equivalent words used in NZ? Can anyone help there please. Barbara

No significance at all. Just a fashion. As are all modern kilts really. Judy ---------- >From: JohnASaul@aol.com >To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [D-G LIST] Kilts >Date: 14, Sun Nov, 2004, 1:29 pm > > Having just seen the posting on Gaelic made me think of this. Yesterday, in > north Devon, we passed a couple out walking and the man was wearing a denim > kilt. I've not seen one before and didn't know they existed. Is there any > significance in this, other than denim being in fashion? The lady was just > wearing ordinary trousers. > > Carol

No. Kirkconnel Lea is on the Springkell estate, on the fringes of the village of Eaglesfield, in the parish of Kirkpatrick Fleming. Rene Anderson ----- Original Message ----- From: "mary" <campsie@tcsn.net> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:02 AM Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Location Help needed! > Would the Ayrshire one be where "Helen lies on Fair Kirkconnel Lea"? The > song by Robert Burns? > > Maisie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <JJardcinc@aol.com> > To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 5:48 PM > Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Location Help needed! > > >> >> Janet, >> >> The Kirkconnel (the village) you are looking for is about 5 miles west of >> Sanquhar on the A76 road to New Cumnock. This is not the Kirkconnel/I in >> Urr >> or near Auchenreoch . Other Listers will have more information on the >> church >> and graveyard there. >> >> Using _www.streetmap.co.uk_ (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/) and typing >> Kirkconnel as the GB placename, the URL is: >> >> _http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=273303&y=612209&z=3&sv=kirkconnel&st= >> 3&tl=Kirkconnel,+Dumfries+&+Galloway+[Town]&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=newmap. >> srf_ >> (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=273303&y=612209&z=3&sv=kirkconnel&st=3&tl=Kirkconnel,+Dumfries+&+Galloway+[Town]&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=ne >> wmap.srf) >> >> You should also check out the Statisitcal Accounts of Scotland website >> at: >> >> _http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk_ (http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk/) >> for >> descriptions as of 1791-99 and 1845. >> >> Also see Sandy's tours at: >> >> _http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/_ >> (http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/) for churches and graveyards. >> >> Have fun! >> >> Yours aye, >> >> John Jardine >> Cincinnati, Ohio USA >> D&G FHS Member #1918 >> >> Alba mo dhuthaich gu deireadh mo la! >> (Scotland my homeland forever!) >> >> JARDINE/JARDEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Annan, Applegarth, Wamphray, >> Torthorwald, Collin, Racks, Cummertrees, Powfoot, Mouswald, Kirkmichael, >> Templand; >> GREEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbright; RAE in Dumfries, >> Maxwelltown, >> Kirkcudbright; MOFFAT in Dumfries, Maxwelltown; McMILLAN in Dumfries, >> Kirkcudbright, Irongray; HALLIDAY in Irongray; BRODIE in Dumfries, >> Maxwelltown; >> DICKSON in Mouswald; HOPE in Annan; JOHNSTON(E) in Applegarth, >> Kirkpatrick-Juxta; >> PORTEOUS in Applegarth; RICHARDSON in Applegarth >> >> >> >> ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> >> If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join >> CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> >> >> > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > ******************************************************************** > To UNSUBSCRIBE > send a message to DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L-request@rootsweb.com (for mail > mode) or DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D-request@rootsweb.com (for digest mode) with > only the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the message body. NO subject, NO signature. > ************************************************************************ >

I am no Burns expert, but my understanding is that he lived in Kirkoswald, Ayrshire for a large proportion of his short life. Seems like a fairly safe assumption. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mary" <campsie@tcsn.net> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Location Help needed! > Would the Ayrshire one be where "Helen lies on Fair Kirkconnel Lea"? The > song by Robert Burns? > > Maisie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <JJardcinc@aol.com> > To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 5:48 PM > Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Location Help needed! > > > > > > Janet, > > > > The Kirkconnel (the village) you are looking for is about 5 miles west of > > Sanquhar on the A76 road to New Cumnock. This is not the Kirkconnel/I in > > Urr > > or near Auchenreoch . Other Listers will have more information on the > > church > > and graveyard there. > > > > Using _www.streetmap.co.uk_ (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/) and typing > > Kirkconnel as the GB placename, the URL is: > > > > _http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=273303&y=612209&z=3&sv=kirkconnel&s t= > > 3&tl=Kirkconnel,+Dumfries+&+Galloway+[Town]&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=newma p. > > srf_ > > (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=273303&y=612209&z=3&sv=kirkconnel&s t=3&tl=Kirkconnel,+Dumfries+&+Galloway+[Town]&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=ne > > wmap.srf) > > > > You should also check out the Statisitcal Accounts of Scotland website > > at: > > > > _http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk_ (http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk/) > > for > > descriptions as of 1791-99 and 1845. > > > > Also see Sandy's tours at: > > > > _http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/_ > > (http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/) for churches and graveyards. > > > > Have fun! > > > > Yours aye, > > > > John Jardine > > Cincinnati, Ohio USA > > D&G FHS Member #1918 > > > > Alba mo dhuthaich gu deireadh mo la! > > (Scotland my homeland forever!) > > > > JARDINE/JARDEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Annan, Applegarth, Wamphray, > > Torthorwald, Collin, Racks, Cummertrees, Powfoot, Mouswald, Kirkmichael, > > Templand; > > GREEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbright; RAE in Dumfries, > > Maxwelltown, > > Kirkcudbright; MOFFAT in Dumfries, Maxwelltown; McMILLAN in Dumfries, > > Kirkcudbright, Irongray; HALLIDAY in Irongray; BRODIE in Dumfries, > > Maxwelltown; > > DICKSON in Mouswald; HOPE in Annan; JOHNSTON(E) in Applegarth, > > Kirkpatrick-Juxta; > > PORTEOUS in Applegarth; RICHARDSON in Applegarth > > > > > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join > > CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > > > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > ******************************************************************** > To UNSUBSCRIBE > send a message to DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L-request@rootsweb.com (for mail > mode) or DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D-request@rootsweb.com (for digest mode) with > only the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the message body. NO subject, NO signature. > ************************************************************************ > >

Old Parish Records Mar sin leat edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton SystemWorks

Is it really important how we communicate, as long as we do communicate, Gaelic, sign language, morse or others, the main purpose to coomunicate with each other, even if someone translates it for us in a language we understand. David ----- Original Message ----- From: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 10:00 AM Subject: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D Digest V04 #302

Would the Ayrshire one be where "Helen lies on Fair Kirkconnel Lea"? The song by Robert Burns? Maisie ----- Original Message ----- From: <JJardcinc@aol.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Location Help needed! > > Janet, > > The Kirkconnel (the village) you are looking for is about 5 miles west of > Sanquhar on the A76 road to New Cumnock. This is not the Kirkconnel/I in > Urr > or near Auchenreoch . Other Listers will have more information on the > church > and graveyard there. > > Using _www.streetmap.co.uk_ (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/) and typing > Kirkconnel as the GB placename, the URL is: > > _http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=273303&y=612209&z=3&sv=kirkconnel&st= > 3&tl=Kirkconnel,+Dumfries+&+Galloway+[Town]&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=newmap. > srf_ > (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=273303&y=612209&z=3&sv=kirkconnel&st=3&tl=Kirkconnel,+Dumfries+&+Galloway+[Town]&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=ne > wmap.srf) > > You should also check out the Statisitcal Accounts of Scotland website > at: > > _http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk_ (http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk/) > for > descriptions as of 1791-99 and 1845. > > Also see Sandy's tours at: > > _http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/_ > (http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/) for churches and graveyards. > > Have fun! > > Yours aye, > > John Jardine > Cincinnati, Ohio USA > D&G FHS Member #1918 > > Alba mo dhuthaich gu deireadh mo la! > (Scotland my homeland forever!) > > JARDINE/JARDEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Annan, Applegarth, Wamphray, > Torthorwald, Collin, Racks, Cummertrees, Powfoot, Mouswald, Kirkmichael, > Templand; > GREEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbright; RAE in Dumfries, > Maxwelltown, > Kirkcudbright; MOFFAT in Dumfries, Maxwelltown; McMILLAN in Dumfries, > Kirkcudbright, Irongray; HALLIDAY in Irongray; BRODIE in Dumfries, > Maxwelltown; > DICKSON in Mouswald; HOPE in Annan; JOHNSTON(E) in Applegarth, > Kirkpatrick-Juxta; > PORTEOUS in Applegarth; RICHARDSON in Applegarth > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join > CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > >

Janet, The Kirkconnel (the village) you are looking for is about 5 miles west of Sanquhar on the A76 road to New Cumnock. This is not the Kirkconnel/I in Urr or near Auchenreoch . Other Listers will have more information on the church and graveyard there. Using _www.streetmap.co.uk_ (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/) and typing Kirkconnel as the GB placename, the URL is: _http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=273303&y=612209&z=3&sv=kirkconnel&st= 3&tl=Kirkconnel,+Dumfries+&+Galloway+[Town]&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=newmap. srf_ (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=273303&y=612209&z=3&sv=kirkconnel&st=3&tl=Kirkconnel,+Dumfries+&+Galloway+[Town]&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=ne wmap.srf) You should also check out the Statisitcal Accounts of Scotland website at: _http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk_ (http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk/) for descriptions as of 1791-99 and 1845. Also see Sandy's tours at: _http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/_ (http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/) for churches and graveyards. Have fun! Yours aye, John Jardine Cincinnati, Ohio USA D&G FHS Member #1918 Alba mo dhuthaich gu deireadh mo la! (Scotland my homeland forever!) JARDINE/JARDEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Annan, Applegarth, Wamphray, Torthorwald, Collin, Racks, Cummertrees, Powfoot, Mouswald, Kirkmichael, Templand; GREEN in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbright; RAE in Dumfries, Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbright; MOFFAT in Dumfries, Maxwelltown; McMILLAN in Dumfries, Kirkcudbright, Irongray; HALLIDAY in Irongray; BRODIE in Dumfries, Maxwelltown; DICKSON in Mouswald; HOPE in Annan; JOHNSTON(E) in Applegarth, Kirkpatrick-Juxta; PORTEOUS in Applegarth; RICHARDSON in Applegarth

Hi All, Words from James:- a) >I am surprised that so many people, especially on this list, are taken in by the notion that we are somehow >connected to Gaelic culture - witness a call for a Gaelic passport. What absolutely self deluding, pathetic, >romantic nonsense I agree with this statement. For the simple reason that it would be ridiculous to have a passport in Gaelic - to impress whom? B) From Jeffrey:- >As a generally rule, you could consider those with Highland ancestry as >likely having Celtic or Gaelic forebears. Lowlanders could have had >ancestors from almost anywhere. I agree. I agree with most of Irene's statements, too that keeping a language alive is important to a culture but lets not get carried away! Cheers! from NZ where the Maori language is being revived but the English language prevails. Maureen > Language is a tool for communication. The greater number of other people > with whom one can communicate the better. So why diminish their potential > communication pool by teaching children in gaelic or urdu or any other of > the UK's > minority languages? By all means encourage and support their culture - > we > can see how the Scots and other emigrants took their culture with them > when > they went to North America but they did not refuse to relinquish their > native > language. How many foreign language posts do we get on this list? ...and > would > we understand them if we did! > > Irene --------------------- I am breathing deeply and will try very hard not to flame, especially seeing as it is you, Irene. To learn a new language does not and should not entail loosing one's mother tongue. "Culture" is not simply a matter of waving flags and dressing in costumes; it is a total consciousness, a body and manner of thought which is expressed by the language of that culture. Lose the language and you have lost the culture. You may be surprised to know that there is still a Gaelic tradition in Nova Scotia, and a group of people dedicated to preserving that tradition, especially the language. Throughout North America there are aboriginal groups trying desperately to preserve the traditions of their forefathers, particularly the languages. There are only a few which have not already been eradicated. In Canada, the Québecois fight ceaselessly to make sure that their language is not subsumed by the huge body of English-speaking people which surround them. There is a body of both legislation and legislative tradition to support that end, both in Quebec and at the federal level in Ottawa. It is sad that more than 90% of the languages (and cultures) of the world have disappeared in the last 400 years, all buried under the avalanche of whatever European power took over their land. But we English speakers should be careful not to get to smug about the dominance of our language. If, in the end, the majority prevails, our grandchildren will all be speaking Manderin. One hopes that they will be allowed to retain their mother tongue as well. Cheers! Malcolm ______________________________

Iain wrote As far as I am aware it [Longbedholm] still exists, although I don't have a map to hand to pinpoint the exact location. I think it is near the Lochmaben to Beattock road. It would be reasonably easy research to find out when Alexander Paterson acquired the place but would probably take around an hour in the Archives. Thanks Iain for your reply. We shall be in Scotland next September and shall look at the Archives then if I can'r locate the information from this end. Judy

Hi List, Researching a family of Shaw's today at the LDS room. I have found a birth of Ivie Shaw born October 28 1826 in "Kirkconnel by Sanquhar" I wonder if anyone could tell me where this place is located, is it near Auchenreoch Kirkcudbright or Urr? At what cemetery would he most likely be buried at if he remained in the area? Is there anyone out there researching the Shaw family that might be able to share information. Regards Janet Burnie-McKnight Researching: Burnie, Carswell, Dobie, Forrest, Halliday, Hyslop, McKnight,and England's in S/W Scotland and the England's and Senior's of England

Hello all, I think we have beaten the "Why Gaelic" thread to death by now. Please end it on the list and continue in private correspondence if you wish Tom Welch, Listowner

Hi I am new to the list. Can anyone tell me if a farm, Longbedholm in parish of Kirkpatrick Juxta still exists and where it was? Alexander PATERSON (1812-1878), landed proprietor of Longbedholm, was the son of James PATERSON of Carmacoup, Lanarkshire and Grissel GILLESPIE. Alexander, his first wife, Jannet PATERSON and their children were living at Longbedholm in 1851. Alexander succeeded his brother, James PATERSON to Carmacoup, after James death in 1855. I would also be interested to know where I could discover the date Alexander acquired Longbedholm. Was it long before 1838 when his second child was born and from whom did he acquire it? Hoping someone can help Judy in Australia

Indeed, on this or another Galloway list we had a post in French not so long ago and I recall that a few feathers were ruffled. In the end, SKS offered to translate both the posts and the replies. Cheers! Malcolm > "why diminish their potential communication pool by teaching children in > gaelic or urdu or any other of the UK's minority languages? By all means > encourage and support their culture..." You want to encourage culture > while banning minority languages? > > "How many foreign language posts do we get on this list?" Are you saying > that Gaelic is a foreign language??? If you want posts in Gaelic, I'm > sure that there are several list members could oblige. > > Iain > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lowlandscot@aol.com > To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: 16 November 2004 09:13 > Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Re: Why Gaelic? > > > > In a message dated 15/11/2004 20:24:16 GMT Standard Time, > Copywriter@tesco.net writes: > > I think it was David Blunkett who advised young people to stop talking > urdu > to their grannies and speak English instead!! > > > > Language is a tool for communication. The greater number of other people > with whom one can communicate the better. So why diminish their potential > communication pool by teaching children in gaelic or urdu or any other of > the UK's > minority languages? By all means encourage and support their culture - > we > can see how the Scots and other emigrants took their culture with them > when > they went to North America but they did not refuse to relinquish their > native > language. How many foreign language posts do we get on this list? ...and > would > we understand them if we did! > > Irene > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************* > If you have any problems with this list or any of its members please > contact the listowner....Tom Welch....tomas@directcon.net > ******************************************************************** > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > ******************************************************************** > To UNSUBSCRIBE > send a message to DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L-request@rootsweb.com (for mail > mode) or DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-D-request@rootsweb.com (for digest mode) with > only the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the message body. NO subject, NO signature. > ************************************************************************ > >

> Language is a tool for communication. The greater number of other people > with whom one can communicate the better. So why diminish their potential > communication pool by teaching children in gaelic or urdu or any other of > the UK's > minority languages? By all means encourage and support their culture - > we > can see how the Scots and other emigrants took their culture with them > when > they went to North America but they did not refuse to relinquish their > native > language. How many foreign language posts do we get on this list? ...and > would > we understand them if we did! > > Irene --------------------- I am breathing deeply and will try very hard not to flame, especially seeing as it is you, Irene. To learn a new language does not and should not entail loosing one's mother tongue. "Culture" is not simply a matter of waving flags and dressing in costumes; it is a total consciousness, a body and manner of thought which is expressed by the language of that culture. Lose the language and you have lost the culture. You may be surprised to know that there is still a Gaelic tradition in Nova Scotia, and a group of people dedicated to preserving that tradition, especially the language. Throughout North America there are aboriginal groups trying desperately to preserve the traditions of their forefathers, particularly the languages. There are only a few which have not already been eradicated. In Canada, the Québecois fight ceaselessly to make sure that their language is not subsumed by the huge body of English-speaking people which surround them. There is a body of both legislation and legislative tradition to support that end, both in Quebec and at the federal level in Ottawa. It is sad that more than 90% of the languages (and cultures) of the world have disappeared in the last 400 years, all buried under the avalanche of whatever European power took over their land. But we English speakers should be careful not to get to smug about the dominance of our language. If, in the end, the majority prevails, our grandchildren will all be speaking Manderin. One hopes that they will be allowed to retain their mother tongue as well. Cheers! Malcolm

"Of course gaelic is a foreign language .......... " Oh, Irene. As my old mother used to say, 'Go wash out your mouth with salt and water..." Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Lowlandscot@aol.com To: iain@keapub.fsnet.co.uk ; DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: 16 November 2004 12:57 Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] Re: Why Gaelic? while banning minority languages? Of course gaelic is a foreign language .......... But at no point did I use the word 'banning.' I just don't think it needs to be encouraged or subsidised or made mandatory for a job based in Inverness. And I'm sure there are several members who could post in gaelic .......... but how many listers would understand and be able to respond ................... which is precisely my point. Irene

Right on, Eunice. Society needs to be much more inclusive and you are so correct about Braille and other raised types, BSL, etc. My own research uncovered a nineteenth Gaelic-speaking community, far away from the big institutions receiving people with sensory impairments, who learned not only to sign, but to finger spell because of the presence of hearing impaired members in their community. I find it strange that some people whose interest is recovery of the past do not have a more inclusive approach. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Mrs E. Smith To: DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: 16 November 2004 11:21 Subject: [D-G LIST] Communication re Gaelic etc. I cannot resist responding to the most recent messages on the Dumfries and Galloway list regarding the common means of communication between peoples i.e. spoken or written language. The discussions have tended to concentrate on Gaelic. I think that I am correct that in the most recent census persons who spoke Gaelic were invited to indicate that fact so that it could be recorded and an assessment of need and appropriate services could be made. However people with hearing impairment whose means of communication is Manual Communication were not given any such opportunity. Similarly those persons with a severe (and in some cases life-long) vision impairment whose main means of receiving written information is a raised text method i.e. Braille or Moon had no opportunity to have that fact registered. Since it has not been registered there is (once again) no means of assessing the need for such provision. As such it is not likely to receive attention nor result in consequent funding for the provision of appropriate services. This is a particular shame to Scotland as in the very late 18th century Thomas Blacklock (himself blind from early years) who was born in Annan, grew up in Dumfries and for a time was a minister in Kirkcudbright was the inspiration for and instigator of services to the blind in Scotland. The Institution set up in Edinburgh (1793) within a short time of his death was the second in the UK country after a similar instituion was set up in Liverpool. The Edinburgh Institution was a model for many others. It was much admired in the UK and further afield and was compared favourably with that in Liverpool and other later establishments in its ethos and practice. This time was prior to the invention and development of braille. Blacklock was indeed responsible for bringing the first `raised text' into Britain. In the early 18th century many persons in Scotland were active in devising models so that the `blind' could receive written communications. There is currently a `Right to Read' charter promoted by The Royal National Institute of the Blind. This aims to bring to public attention how greatly those with vision impairment continue to be disadvantaged regarding access to written material. Similarly a development/offshoot of that 18th century establishment (Blindcraft) is presently facing the threat of closure or major loss of jobs. One correspondent has mentioned David Blunkett in relation to his comments re Urdu. Let us look forward (not too far) to the day when everyone has an equal opportunity to access and produce written texts. We on D&G list are interested in the past - let us make sure that we do everything that we can to make it accessible to everyone irrespective of the difficulties of communication. Please excuse this long message - it is an extremely important current issue. Eunice Smith Edinburgh, Scotland ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> If your line involves the surname GRAHAM why not join CLAN-GRAHAM-L@rootsweb.com and find out more. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>