Middle names became commonplace in Baptism Registers in Orkney in the early 19th century, right across the social spectrum. At the lower end of the spectrum the surname of the local laird or Minister became a popular middle name; at the upper end the surnames of maternal ancestors were popular. This practice seems to have replaced the earlier usage of "alias" (today's "aka") names as a means of distinguishing several "John Smiths" (up there the "Magnus Fletts") in the same district. It may have eased, but certainly did not wholly replace, the occasional practice of two siblings being given the same (single) chirstian name, even (very occasionally) when the elder sibling had not died! Presumably nicknames resolved the confusion at the time; of course the parents were not concerned about the problems they left for later genealogists!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Malcolm Paterson" <mdp1@sympatico.ca> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [D-G LIST] frequency of middle names > Some notes: Middle names were seldom specified in Christenings or Birth > registrations, but they tended to show up in other records in later life. > The practice of giving middle names began in the last half of the 19th C. > and became more common after 1875. Middle names were often given to > distinguish a child who had been given the name of a sibling who had died > young. My great-grandfather was Baptized Thomas Douglas; Thomas was his > father's name and an older brother of that name had died. Later in life, > my g-gf became known as Thomas Butler Douglas, Butler being his mother's > ms. Girls were more likely to be given middle names than boys; the name > was very often the mother's or maternal grandmother's name. > > These are mostly generalities and there are no doubt instances to > contradict any of these statements, but I think they are largely valid. > > Cheers! > Malcolm > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> Hi there all >> >> Someone on the Montreal list has stated quiet categorically that: >> >> snip >> >> in Scotland they did not give >> out middle names very often in the time frame of her birth (1789) unless >> children were illigitamate that is >> >> snip >> >> I have done a spot check in an almanac and found tons - for people who >> would >> have been born in that timeframe.But these were people like ministers and >> lawyers. really posh types tend to have strings of extra names, but >> that's >> different I think. >> >> In my own family, the habit was well-established by the mid-19thC. I >> think >> the first name and given name were often the given name and surname of a >> grandparent. But usually I only have one child per generation with an >> extra >> moniker - or only one I know about anyway. >> >> Apart from our research, middle names would have been very useful where >> cousins were being named after the same grandfather or grandmother (for >> example). >> >> But is the person I quoted generally correct?. Were middle names rare in >> the >> 18thC? Or was it an establishment habit that the aspirational middle >> classes >> and artisans picked up on. >> >> Did people have more middle names than we know about - because they were >> not >> registered on the census? >> >> Can anyone put a date on these trends. And what about the illegitimate >> thing? >> >> I have chosen to post this to the D&G list as you are the most >> knowledgeable >> ones I know.....;-) >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> >> ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== >> ********************************************************************* >> If you have any problems with this list or any of its members please >> contact the listowner....Tom Welch....tomas@directcon.net >> ******************************************************************** >> >> > > ______________________________

My CLINT family, Auchencairn (Rerrick), had 8 children, and all four girls were given second names but, all different: Mary Hyslop (my 2Ggrandmother, b 1831); Elizabeth Armstrong (b 1835); Sarah Thomson (b 1837) and Margaret Robertson (b 1840). Their mother was Sarah HYSLOP. I have assumed the Armstrong, Thomson and Robertson were from previous generations. Only one boy (twice, as it happens, due to infant mortality) was given a second name (Hyslop!) The father was an Agricultural Labourers Reg

Thanks Elizabeth for sharing that with us. I picked up my uncle Valentine FISHER he must have been near the river at the time as he lived in Rotchell Park. Thanks Ron Fisher Toowoomba Queensland Australia

Hello to everyone I am trying to find some info on my GGrandparents. I have the marriage cert. for William Caunter Kerr and Agnes Allan Harrow but it is hard to decipher. It looks like William Caunter (on one line) then Kerr on the next line but then a comma and what looks like formerly Caunter. He only has a mother listed Isabella Caunter with Kerr on the next line down--not sure which name was current. At the Scotland GRO the marriage is under the surname Caunter. I am very confused as to where to go next. Am hoping SKS will be able to offer some advice. This is the information from the Marriage cert. William Caunter Kerr, formerly Caunter, Fireman (Bachelor) age 26 years. Usual residence Dumfries. Mother, Isabella Caunter (Kerr on next line down) Agnes Allan Harrow, Laundress (Spinster) Her parents are listed as James Harrow, Carter and Anges Harrow M.S Middleton. They were married Nov 20, 1908 at Pittencrief Farm, Parish of Cupar. Witnesses Charles McIntosh and Isabella Harrow. William and Agnes had a daughter Isabel born May 29, 1909-Scotland, this being their only child. Isabel would have been my Grandmother, but sadly died in childbirth with my father. William and Agnes came to Canada sometime before 1930 when Isabel died, I am guessing around 1919 according to Isabels death cert. In Canada William uses the surname Kerr. Does anyone know of these people? Thanks, and sorry to be so long winded! Cathy Canada

On the IGI Isabella Cauntor is born 1847 Kirkbean Kircudbright Parents Richard Cauntor and Jane Kerr Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick and Cathy" <ricklonergan@rogers.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 3:59 PM Subject: [D-G LIST] New Member - Caunter, Kerr, Harrow > Hello to everyone > > I am trying to find some info on my GGrandparents. I have the marriage > cert. for William Caunter Kerr and Agnes Allan Harrow but it is hard to > decipher. It looks like William Caunter (on one line) then Kerr on the > next line but then a comma and what looks like formerly Caunter. He only > has a mother listed Isabella Caunter with Kerr on the next line down--not > sure which name was current. At the Scotland GRO the marriage is under the > surname Caunter. I am very confused as to where to go next. Am hoping SKS > will be able to offer some advice. > This is the information from the Marriage cert. > William Caunter Kerr, formerly Caunter, Fireman (Bachelor) age 26 years. > Usual residence Dumfries. Mother, Isabella Caunter (Kerr on next line > down) > Agnes Allan Harrow, Laundress (Spinster) Her parents are listed as James > Harrow, Carter and Anges Harrow M.S Middleton. > They were married Nov 20, 1908 at Pittencrief Farm, Parish of Cupar. > Witnesses Charles McIntosh and Isabella Harrow. > > William and Agnes had a daughter Isabel born May 29, 1909-Scotland, this > being their only child. Isabel would have been my Grandmother, but sadly > died in childbirth with my father. William and Agnes came to Canada > sometime before 1930 when Isabel died, I am guessing around 1919 according > to Isabels death cert. In Canada William uses the surname Kerr. > Does anyone know of these people? > Thanks, and sorry to be so long winded! > Cathy > Canada > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ > >

This is what I found on the 1881 census Margaret Dwelling: Southerness Census Place: Kirkbean, Kircudbright, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0224057 GRO Ref Volume 870 EnumDist 4 Page 2 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Benjamin KERR U 56 M Kirkbean, Kirkcudbright, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: House Carpenter Isabel CANTER U 33 F Kirkbean, Kirkcudbright, Scotland Rel: Niece Occ: Housekeeper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick and Cathy" <ricklonergan@rogers.com> To: <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 3:59 PM Subject: [D-G LIST] New Member - Caunter, Kerr, Harrow > Hello to everyone > > I am trying to find some info on my GGrandparents. I have the marriage > cert. for William Caunter Kerr and Agnes Allan Harrow but it is hard to > decipher. It looks like William Caunter (on one line) then Kerr on the > next line but then a comma and what looks like formerly Caunter. He only > has a mother listed Isabella Caunter with Kerr on the next line down--not > sure which name was current. At the Scotland GRO the marriage is under the > surname Caunter. I am very confused as to where to go next. Am hoping SKS > will be able to offer some advice. > This is the information from the Marriage cert. > William Caunter Kerr, formerly Caunter, Fireman (Bachelor) age 26 years. > Usual residence Dumfries. Mother, Isabella Caunter (Kerr on next line > down) > Agnes Allan Harrow, Laundress (Spinster) Her parents are listed as James > Harrow, Carter and Anges Harrow M.S Middleton. > They were married Nov 20, 1908 at Pittencrief Farm, Parish of Cupar. > Witnesses Charles McIntosh and Isabella Harrow. > > William and Agnes had a daughter Isabel born May 29, 1909-Scotland, this > being their only child. Isabel would have been my Grandmother, but sadly > died in childbirth with my father. William and Agnes came to Canada > sometime before 1930 when Isabel died, I am guessing around 1919 according > to Isabels death cert. In Canada William uses the surname Kerr. > Does anyone know of these people? > Thanks, and sorry to be so long winded! > Cathy > Canada > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > FIND YOUR ANCESTORS > http://www.directcon.net/tomas/Ancestry/index.html/ > >

Some notes: Middle names were seldom specified in Christenings or Birth registrations, but they tended to show up in other records in later life. The practice of giving middle names began in the last half of the 19th C. and became more common after 1875. Middle names were often given to distinguish a child who had been given the name of a sibling who had died young. My great-grandfather was Baptized Thomas Douglas; Thomas was his father's name and an older brother of that name had died. Later in life, my g-gf became known as Thomas Butler Douglas, Butler being his mother's ms. Girls were more likely to be given middle names than boys; the name was very often the mother's or maternal grandmother's name. These are mostly generalities and there are no doubt instances to contradict any of these statements, but I think they are largely valid. Cheers! Malcolm ----- Original Message ----- > > Hi there all > > Someone on the Montreal list has stated quiet categorically that: > > snip > > in Scotland they did not give > out middle names very often in the time frame of her birth (1789) unless > children were illigitamate that is > > snip > > I have done a spot check in an almanac and found tons - for people who > would > have been born in that timeframe.But these were people like ministers and > lawyers. really posh types tend to have strings of extra names, but that's > different I think. > > In my own family, the habit was well-established by the mid-19thC. I think > the first name and given name were often the given name and surname of a > grandparent. But usually I only have one child per generation with an > extra > moniker - or only one I know about anyway. > > Apart from our research, middle names would have been very useful where > cousins were being named after the same grandfather or grandmother (for > example). > > But is the person I quoted generally correct?. Were middle names rare in > the > 18thC? Or was it an establishment habit that the aspirational middle > classes > and artisans picked up on. > > Did people have more middle names than we know about - because they were > not > registered on the census? > > Can anyone put a date on these trends. And what about the illegitimate > thing? > > I have chosen to post this to the D&G list as you are the most > knowledgeable > ones I know.....;-) > > Judy > > > > > ==== DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************* > If you have any problems with this list or any of its members please > contact the listowner....Tom Welch....tomas@directcon.net > ******************************************************************** > >

Hi there all Someone on the Montreal list has stated quiet categorically that: snip in Scotland they did not give out middle names very often in the time frame of her birth (1789) unless children were illigitamate that is snip I have done a spot check in an almanac and found tons - for people who would have been born in that timeframe.But these were people like ministers and lawyers. really posh types tend to have strings of extra names, but that's different I think. In my own family, the habit was well-established by the mid-19thC. I think the first name and given name were often the given name and surname of a grandparent. But usually I only have one child per generation with an extra moniker - or only one I know about anyway. Apart from our research, middle names would have been very useful where cousins were being named after the same grandfather or grandmother (for example). But is the person I quoted generally correct?. Were middle names rare in the 18thC? Or was it an establishment habit that the aspirational middle classes and artisans picked up on. Did people have more middle names than we know about - because they were not registered on the census? Can anyone put a date on these trends. And what about the illegitimate thing? I have chosen to post this to the D&G list as you are the most knowledgeable ones I know.....;-) Judy

Enough is enough!!. Best regards Michael

Please forgive this pseudo-ad, but I think it will interest those of you with New England connections: A Feast of Ancestors! Enjoy Free Access to the Register Online Over Thanksgiving Weekend! NEHGS is pleased to offer free access to its New England Historical and Genealogical Register database on New England Ancestors.org over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend! Normally only available to NEHGS members, the Register database will be accessible to everyone from Thursday, November 25 through Sunday, November 28, 2004. We encourage all NEHGS members to spread the word about this offering, and we hope that those of you who are not members find a veritable feast of ancestors in the Register database! Published quarterly since 1847, The New England Historical and Genealogical Register is the flagship journal of American genealogy and the oldest journal in the field. The online database includes issues from 1847 to 1994. The Register has featured articles on a wide variety of topics since its inception, including vital records, church records, tax records, land and probate records, cemetery transcriptions, obituaries, and historical essays. Authoritative compiled genealogies have been the centerpiece of the Register for more than 150 years. Thousands of New England families have been treated in the pages of the journal and many more are referenced in incidental ways throughout. The articles in the Register range from short pieces correcting errors in print or solving unusual problems to larger treatments that reveal family origins or present multiple generations of a family. Look for details on how to obtain free access to the Register in a special eNews bulletin to be sent out Wednesday, November 24. A link will also be available on that date on the home page of our website, www.NewEnglandAncestors.org

Hello List I'm still looking for: John Burgess (c.1737 – 1815) and Jean Spalding (c.1750 - 1819). Their gravestone in Kells Church Yard shows John to have died at Dullarg, Parton in 1815 and Jean to have died at Mid Laggan, Parton in 1819. We believe the age at death given for Jean is incorrect, so an estimate of her birth is given here. They lived at Nether Gairloch, Kells until at least 1792. Then moved to Longcroft, Kells and finally to Dullarg. I would be grateful for any information on this pair. Thanks Judy .

This spat should continue off-list. It's very boring and very silly. Grow up please. Judy

Hi All, I have just read the latest mail in the spat between Tom and Bill/Cliff. Will you two get off the list and leave it to those interested in their families from the South West of Scotland, or just take the time to grow up. Jim Rodger

If a Mr.Rae from the Virgin Islands is on the list please contact me at :fraserm.conrad@ns.sympatico.ca You called but I have not been able to send a 'successful e-mail' to you. We can discuss the Rae Family of Pictou County,Nova Scotia. Anyone else researching this family please contact me. Myrtle(Russell)Conrad Cow Bay,Nova Scotia Canada

Hello all from down under, I am doing some research for my Cousin Ron Melbourne who's father Joseph Melbourne was born in 1884 at Rerrick son of George Melbourne & Jane Dunbar. Also the above names come into his family history. Hoping I can find some relatives for him See Ya Barbara --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

Apparently there are people on this list who either do not read messages from the listowner or do not believe they are to be considered important. TAKE NOTE!! I will not allow any member to disrupt the civil flow of information that has always marked this list. After this message is delivered by Rootsweb, anyone who continues this thread on the list will be removed from the list and not allowed to resubscribe. Tom Welch Listowner, Dumfries-Galloway list

Tom post the email that you sent and let the list judge!! Not wanting to start a war about what Tom has written so any one interested in a copy of the Penpont or any other file for there own use please contact me of line. Then judge for yourself as a first run transcription what is wrong. Second YES i did ask for something in return and that was a copy of the corrected work yes finished census..Not a breach of copyright !! Yes BILL is my name as i seldom use William and joined this list as BILL as Tom tried to infer i am not hiding my Full name is CLIFFORD WILLIAM KERR. have email addresses using these names So yes beware DICTATORS are still present and with due respect TOM writes like one with a sharp knife.. Bill Cliff William

Hello listers, I am trying to find some more information on the above James FARISH. According to his death certificate, he was born about 1818, the son of Robert FARISH and Elizabeth TURNER. The birth certificate of his son, Peter, for which James was the informant, gives James' birthplace as Kirkmahoe, Dumfrieshire. In 1848, James married Helen Leitch ANDERSON, in the Parish of Largs, County of Ayr. (I have a copy of the OPR entry for this marriage.) I would like to hear from anyone who has knowledge of James FARISH. Judy Thomas Melbourne, Oz. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 19/11/2004

Hello Everyone My interest in Dumfries anyone researching the same names please contact me. Riddick - 1808 / 1880 Dale - 1830 / 1880 Rae - 1820 / 1887 McCutheon - 1897 Martin - 1828 Thank you Desmond Cambridge, Ontario. Canada

David et al: Have a look at _http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/Dumfries/St-Michael-s/st-ml-1.htm_ (http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/Dumfries/St-Michael-s/st-ml-1.htm) for short photo tour of St Michael's kirkyard. The photos are few years old now and I keep meaning to up-date and add to them when I can find the time. Sandy