Why, Neil and I's John Downing, who else? He's 1-1 in her book. <g> The Downingtown section I took with a grain of salt. Should I consider it valid? I have not compared her version of Timothy and family yet either. I've fired off a message to Ray Downing and will share the info I receive when I do. I don't know about the Downing name forum. Tell us how to find it. I have been to the site where your stuff on Timothy is. Cheryl Rothwell clrothwell@mindspring.com