I believe what people took offense to was the comment about President Bush electrocuting people in the Texas governors Mansion....see below: "Well dear list-too bad we all don't have the very same opinion on things! If we all held my opinions, George Bush would still be in the Texas governors mansion electrocuting people. Sorry to break the news to you all, but I have traveled through certain areas of Ulster and what is spoken there is certainly of the very same intent as the advertisement indicated. Of course it is a dialect, and as you have travel through the Celtic countries, you will hear many differing dialects, Ulster Scots being just one. For those of you with an open mind ,I would suggest tuning in to BBC NI to hear their presentation on Ulster Scots. Maybe it is a dialect, maybe it's bastardized English, whatever it is, it's music to the ears! Well, maybe to some of us! Peace on earth and goodwill to all..." Frances Connie Lynne Carrillo email: connielynne@worldnet.att.net Please visit www.connielynne.com Vanished Glory: A Family in America The saga of the Dougans of Donegal

In a message dated 1/21/04 10:51:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, mygardenlove@yahoo.ca writes: > > PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME > > IF WE CAN'T CO-OPERATE AND BE FRIENDLY HERE IS WHERE I GET OFF THIS TRAIN > > > How odd.......I'd swear I've read almost every post on this list, and I've not seen anything of "bitter politics" nor of people not being friendly or co-operative. I'll admit I missed a few posts, but something must have really sneaked by me!! I'm still looking for any clues about my McGonigle ancestors whom I believe may have lived in Killimard. G-Grandfather John and wife Margary (Madge) Doherty McGonigle emigrated in 1831 to PA to join his brothers John and Daniel and sister Eleanor Mary who had gone in 1818. We think a younger brother Charles may have remained in Donegal, as one by that name shows up in the 1901 census in Drumgornan, Killimard, with a wife and a son named David, a name which shows up a couple of times in the US family, as does Charles. Any helpful ideas on their parentage would be gratefully welcomed. z Margo z

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME IF WE CAN'T CO-OPERATE AND BE FRIENDLY HERE IS WHERE I GET OFF THIS TRAIN CARADOC28@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 1/20/2004 11:23:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, rvs001@cox.net writes: > Take Fran Miller off the list before people unlist....there is no place for > bitter politics on this list!!! > nah Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list Jim Denning ==== DONEGALEIRE Mailing List ==== Try searching the Obituaries at Rootsweb: Interactive search http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/obituary/obituary.pl To browse through the archives of the list go to http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl Visit my homepage at http://freepages.genealogy.com/~donegaleire ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

For those interested - Sharon Nelson [slnelson@indiana.edu] had inquired earlier re townland and I sent her the following - Derryvane is the Townland, consisting of 929 Acres in the Barony of Inishowen West. The Civil Parish is Muff, the Poor Law Union is Londonderry, and the Province is Ulster (even though it is in Co. Donegal). I had noticed that the official record of Samuel and Sarah Porter Wiley's marriage, which I got at Public Records Office of N.Ireland (PRONI), says Samuel C. Wiley. ( wondering what the 'C' stands for?) Samuel C. Wiley, full age, Bachelor, Farmer, of Derryvane, Muff Sarah Porter, under 21, Spinster, Derryvane, Muff were married 14 May 1847, Parish of Muff, Co. Donegal, Ireland, in the Church of Muff according to rites and ceremonies of the Church of England and Ireland, by me G. W. Stuart in the presence of Isaac Wiley of Derryvane Thomas Wylie L'derry Notice difference in spelling: WILEY and WYLIE Their Bible has WYLIE imprinted in gold. Their Letter of Transfer to the Macedon Church in Wash. Tp., Mercer Co. OH is from 'sister church of Knowhead Ireland', per Macedon Session minutes. [Knowhead is in Parish of Muff - they were members of Knowhead Presb. Church. - Presbyterians ('Dissenters') had to be married officially under auspices of Church of Ireland (still under English church at that time) until -- what date? I've heard, but don't remember.] ------------ Maybe we'll find out sometime how everyone connects. Margaret H. Hendrix - Orange Co., CA

Fran, I for one don't think your post was rude. Well, I suppose the George Bush comment would predispose some people to take the implied smiley faces out of your post...but not me! It's another of the posts that I found rude. But that could be because I couldn't see the calmness behind what seemed to be angry words. The price of computer-generated conversations, I guess. Although I must admit that, thinking of the '90s talk of Ebonics, Ullans could be thought of as peripheral and pseudo-language talk. Not for me, but for some. We can see both sides while still appreciating the beauty of its existence. Sally Brandon _________________________________________________________________ There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn more. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1

I was interested to read your comments about the migration between Scotland and Donegal and I wondered if you know of the reasons for this? My COLE/COLL family moved between Donegal and Kirkcudbright in the early 1800s and I'd love to know the historical reasons for this migration. My gt.gt.grandfather Charles COLE was an agricultural labourer and I have heard that labourers used to follow the harvest between the two countries. Jeanette. ----- > . Indeed there would be more merit in promoting Scots > Gaelic in Donegal as there is still such so much migration between Scotland

When we were 'wains' and running around granny's 'hoose' making 'gleo' she would tell us “Howl yer whisht or I’ll skelp the legs o’ ye!” We didn't realise she was speaking Ulster-Scots and would never have dared tell her if we did. We just thought that was the way she spoke English because she normally used the soft 'Irish' of Donegal In future years when my own grandchildren are on the Donegaleire list they will probably be qouting me in my own Ulster-Scots-Cockney dialect. Maybe "Shaddup or I'll warm yer a*se" Slan Henry --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 17/01/2004

I seem to have started or continued a firestorm. However, the point is many folks in the Ulster area do indeed speak the broad Ulster Scots dialect and for other persons to have insinuated that it isn't so is very unfair to those who do speak in this manner. ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden" <McFadden@ntlworld.com> To: <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 4:33 AM Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] RE: Wir efter a Ulster-Scots boadie! > > When we were 'wains' and running around granny's 'hoose' making 'gleo' she > would tell us > “Howl yer whisht or I’ll skelp the legs o’ ye!” > We didn't realise she was speaking Ulster-Scots and would never have dared > tell her if we did. > We just thought that was the way she spoke English because she normally used > the soft 'Irish' of Donegal > > In future years when my own grandchildren are on the Donegaleire list they > will probably be qouting me in my own Ulster-Scots-Cockney dialect. > Maybe "Shaddup or I'll warm yer a*se" > > Slan > Henry > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 17/01/2004 > > > > > ==== DONEGALEIRE Mailing List ==== > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> > Check out these Donegal Information Sites > Dick O'Donnell's- http://www.mindspring.com/~dickod/donegal/index.htm > O Donnell Abu/ http://homepage.tinet.ie/~vod/ > Donegal Families/ http://homepage.tinet.ie/~donfam/ > Donegal Database- http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/Doncontent.html > Donegal Information/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

In a message dated 1/20/2004 11:23:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, rvs001@cox.net writes: > Take Fran Miller off the list before people unlist....there is no place for > bitter politics on this list!!! > nah Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list Jim Denning

Well dear list-too bad we all don't have the very same opinion on things! If we all held my opinions, George Bush would still be in the Texas governors mansion electrocuting people. Sorry to break the news to you all, but I have traveled through certain areas of Ulster and what is spoken there is certainly of the very same intent as the advertisement indicated. Of course it is a dialect, and as you have travel through the Celtic countries, you will hear many differing dialects, Ulster Scots being just one. For those of you with an open mind ,I would suggest tuning in to BBC NI to hear their presentation on Ulster Scots. Maybe it is a dialect, maybe it's bastardized English, whatever it is, it's music to the ears! Well, maybe to some of us! Peace on earth and goodwill to all... Frances ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack McCorkell" <JackMcCorkell@prodigy.net> To: <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Wir efter a Ulster-Scots boadie! > Patricia, > > You make some very valid and commendable points regarding how best to > preserve the remnants of our very genuine culture. > > Your ideas are unlike those whose concepts seem to originate from their > oxters. > > You're welcome, > > Jack > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Searc.ie" <info@searc.ie> > To: "Jack McCorkell" <JackMcCorkell@prodigy.net> > Cc: <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Wir efter a Ulster-Scots boadie! > > > > Dear Jack, > > thanks for your comments of agreement - why aren't the respective > > governments promoting Scots/Ulster history and heritage instead of trying > to > > invent a language. Indeed there would be more merit in promoting Scots > > Gaelic in Donegal as there is still such so much migration between > Scotland > > and Donegal and the languages are so similar. I would like to see some > money > > put into researching the history of the Scots in Ulster and in Donegal in > > particular as I receive so many genealogical enquiries and yet the records > > are so few regarding the various estates and social history of how people > > actually mixed and married from the 17th century down. Indeed building and > > farming methods which came from Scotland to West Ulster are barely > > recorded. Granted there are Scots words in common use in Ulster, like > > 'oxter' (underarm) but a language? > > Songs and music deserve funding as so many of the fiddle tunes; dances and > > songs which came from Scotland are still sung and played today yet groups > > like the Inishowen traditional singers or South Donegal fiddlers receive > no > > funding and the tradition is dependant on individuals giving their time to > > keep these traditions going. > > Regards, Patricia Sharkey > > Dun-na-nGall.com > > > > > > > > ==== DONEGALEIRE Mailing List ==== > ************************************************************************ > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> > Check out these Donegal Information Sites > Dick O'Donnell's- http://www.mindspring.com/~dickod/donegal/index.htm > O Donnell Abu/ http://homepage.tinet.ie/~vod/ > Donegal Families/ http://homepage.tinet.ie/~donfam/ > Donegal Database- http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/Doncontent.html > Donegal Information/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Take Fran Miller off the list before people unlist....there is no place for bitter politics on this list!!!

Dear Jack, thanks for your comments of agreement - why aren't the respective governments promoting Scots/Ulster history and heritage instead of trying to invent a language. Indeed there would be more merit in promoting Scots Gaelic in Donegal as there is still such so much migration between Scotland and Donegal and the languages are so similar. I would like to see some money put into researching the history of the Scots in Ulster and in Donegal in particular as I receive so many genealogical enquiries and yet the records are so few regarding the various estates and social history of how people actually mixed and married from the 17th century down. Indeed building and farming methods which came from Scotland to West Ulster are barely recorded. Granted there are Scots words in common use in Ulster, like 'oxter' (underarm) but a language? Songs and music deserve funding as so many of the fiddle tunes; dances and songs which came from Scotland are still sung and played today yet groups like the Inishowen traditional singers or South Donegal fiddlers receive no funding and the tradition is dependant on individuals giving their time to keep these traditions going. Regards, Patricia Sharkey Dun-na-nGall.com

Care to hear a few? Particularly Charlie Gillen. Really lyrical. http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/learning/voices/ulsterscots/ I was lucky enough to attend a Scotch-Irish convention in Atlanta a few years back where I heard James Fenton read his poetry. I got a cassette and it makes me smile to be able to catch just the glimpse of meaning among the sounds. Sally Brandon _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN. http://wine.msn.com/

Patricia, You make some very valid and commendable points regarding how best to preserve the remnants of our very genuine culture. Your ideas are unlike those whose concepts seem to originate from their oxters. You're welcome, Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: "Searc.ie" <info@searc.ie> To: "Jack McCorkell" <JackMcCorkell@prodigy.net> Cc: <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Wir efter a Ulster-Scots boadie! > Dear Jack, > thanks for your comments of agreement - why aren't the respective > governments promoting Scots/Ulster history and heritage instead of trying to > invent a language. Indeed there would be more merit in promoting Scots > Gaelic in Donegal as there is still such so much migration between Scotland > and Donegal and the languages are so similar. I would like to see some money > put into researching the history of the Scots in Ulster and in Donegal in > particular as I receive so many genealogical enquiries and yet the records > are so few regarding the various estates and social history of how people > actually mixed and married from the 17th century down. Indeed building and > farming methods which came from Scotland to West Ulster are barely > recorded. Granted there are Scots words in common use in Ulster, like > 'oxter' (underarm) but a language? > Songs and music deserve funding as so many of the fiddle tunes; dances and > songs which came from Scotland are still sung and played today yet groups > like the Inishowen traditional singers or South Donegal fiddlers receive no > funding and the tradition is dependant on individuals giving their time to > keep these traditions going. > Regards, Patricia Sharkey > Dun-na-nGall.com > >

Tonya If you look at www.familysearch.org and search the name Lipsey you will find at least twenty references to the name in Ireland. Alex

I am searching for the name Lipsey. Was/is there any name as this? 1800-2004 Thank you Tonya

This is an example of the obvious ramblings of illiterates. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fran Miller" <ancabhan@taconic.net> To: <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Wir efter a Ulster-Scots boadie! > That wee bit made my day! I only wish I had the requisite > degree!! > Thank yee Henry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "McFadden" <McFadden@ntlworld.com> > To: <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 4:33 AM > Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Wir efter a Ulster-Scots boadie! > > > > > > Hi all > > I just saw this genuine job posted . . . > > > > <!-- SNIP --> The yin appointit wull wark unner tha Heid o Fowkgates, an > > maun leuk efter tha forderin o tha fowkgates, hidtorie an heirskip o tha > > Ulster-Scotch in tha counties alang tha Border by yokkin resydenter curns > an > > ither yins o tha same ilk. > > The jab needs a boadie wha haes aa tha follaein things tae offer: > > Ye maun hae College letters efter yer name adae wi business or sax yeir > > wirkin in an airt relate tae business. <!-- END SNIP --> > > > > The above is part of an advertisement seeking a Development Officer for > the > > Ulster-Scots Agency. > > Under the Belfast Agreement of 1998 many cross-border bodies were > > established. > > One was to promote the study, conversationand development of the > > Ulster-Scots as a living language, to develop the full range of its > > attendant culture and to promote an understanding of the history of the > > Ulster-Scots. > > > > Meself would be no good for that job. > > Now if the position of "Donegal Gobbledygook Chief Executive Officer" then > > I'm yer man! > > > > Slan > > Henry > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 17/01/2004 > > > > > > > > ==== DONEGALEIRE Mailing List ==== > > To browse through the archives of the list go to > > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > > Visit my homepage at http://freepages.genealogy.com/~donegaleire > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > ==== DONEGALEIRE Mailing List ==== > To browse through the archives of the list go to > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > Visit my homepage at http://freepages.genealogy.com/~donegaleire > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Folks, Sear.ie is absolutely correct. This desperately feeble, bigotry based attempt to distance Ulster Scots/Irish from Irish is an absurdity that is embarrassing to Ulster Scots/Irish like myself. Jack McCorkell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Searc.ie" <info@searc.ie> To: <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Wir efter a Ulster-Scots boadie! > Hi, > I think it is ridiculous that an non-existent 'language' is being funded - > this is English with a Scots accent written down phoenetically. It would be > like funding English as spoken in Yorkshire and saying it was a different > language than English.. No-one in Donegal speaks like this and they > certainly don't write like that - gobbledygook is right. > Regards, Patricia Sharkey > Dun-na-nGall.com > > > ==== DONEGALEIRE Mailing List ==== > Try searching the Obituaries at Rootsweb: Interactive search > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/obituary/obituary.pl > To browse through the archives of the list go to > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > Visit my homepage at http://freepages.genealogy.com/~donegaleire > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi! I thought I'd jump in with a little bit of info, just in case it may help - I transcribed the first quarter deaths for 1865 for the Registrar's District of Burt, Inch and Upper Fahan, spending a fair amount of time figuring out where the townlands in it were.............one of them looked like Manustown to me, but it is marked on maps today as Manner's Town in Burt...........its about a mile from Carrowreagh - in the 1857 Griffith's Valuation the entries for that townland come under Carrowreagh too. Derryvane is further northeast from there - maybe 5 or 6 miles (I'm guessing!).............Fanny Wylie's Bridge is clearly marked on my map, right on the border between Donegal and Derry and just over a mile south, straight down the road from Derryvane to Derry. Tara sent me some census for my website and they include the 1911 census for Derryvane and the 1901 for Drumhaggart, a townland not far northwest of Derryvane - both have Wiley/Wylies in them, who have names like Fanny, Isaac, Moses, and Rebecca............there are also Erskines in Derryvane. You can find the deaths and census here - http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/burtfahand65.htm http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/1911derryvane.htm http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/1901drumhaggart.htm All the best, Lindel M.Hendrix wrote: >Hi - I don't know how long I've had this in my 'Drafts' folder, and there's no date on your message to me (copy of which follows this message). > >Your mention of ancestor Isaac Wylie prompts me to say that an Isaac WILEY of Derryvane and Thomas WYLIE of L'Derry are witnesses on my great-grandparents Samuel Wiley and Sarah Porter's marriage certificate 14 May 1847. > > What are vital statistics on your Isaac Wylie? > >Samuel and Sarah Porter Wiley's Church Letter of Transfer, also dated 1847, was from 'Associated' church (known in U.S. as ARP - Associate Reformed Presby., later (1858) United Presb.) - of Knowhead, parish of Muff, Donegal, signed by Robert WILEY. Letter accepted from "sister" church per Session Minutes of Macedon 'Assoc.' church, Mercer Co., OH, but that date was 10 yrs. later, 1857, when Macedon ch was founded. > >I'm wondering if Samuel and Sarah were somewhere else in the 10 yrs. that intervened. I have had a suspicion that a Moses WILEY/Rebecca PORTER couple in Muskingum Co. and/or Perry Co., OH, must be related, for Samuel & Sarah Porter Wiley's oldest son, Moses, went there (Roseville, OH, which sits on Musk./Perry Co., line) after death of his parents in 1870s. > >Back to Ireland - In 1865 Deaths Registered in the District of Burt, Inch, Upper Fa_lean(sp?) there is 'No. 71' - Robert Wiley who died Jan. 1865 (looks like?) Morristown?, Burt, age 77. [b. ca 1788]"Jane Wiley - wife - registered the death. > >Then later - 'No. 327' - (looks like? Twelfth Aug.? - almost illegible on copy) 1880 - Jane Wiley widow - 80 years - shopkeeper . Rebecca Hannah registered Jane's death--b. ca 1800. [I'm assuming Rebecca Hannah is daughter, but who knows?] > >I don't think I have your ancestry in Ireland. And when did they emigrate? > > >Kerry Weylie <kweylie@hwcn.org> wrote: >Hi Margaret, >I believe we had contact about 2-3 years ago. >Saw your new posting about connections to Fanny Wylie/s bridge. >My ancestor Isaac Weylie/Wylie is said to have had a sister Fanny Wylie. She is said to have been walking when they were building the bridge and said to the worker's that she would pay them to name the bridge after her. It was a very small amount. The bridge is near the border of Donegal and Derry at Lenamore. It was not a big bridge. >Do you have more info on a connection? >Another sister to Isaac Weylie/Wylie was Rebecca Weylie who married William Steen at Culmore. >Possible father to this Wylie family was pehaps a John Wylie and unknown Erskine. >Hope to hear from you again, >Kerry Weylie >Canada > > > > >==== DONEGALEIRE Mailing List ==== >To browse through the archives of the list go to >http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl >Visit my homepage at http://freepages.genealogy.com/~donegaleire > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > >

Hi, I think it is ridiculous that an non-existent 'language' is being funded - this is English with a Scots accent written down phoenetically. It would be like funding English as spoken in Yorkshire and saying it was a different language than English.. No-one in Donegal speaks like this and they certainly don't write like that - gobbledygook is right. Regards, Patricia Sharkey Dun-na-nGall.com