I have had friends in the USA whose name is Dougherty, yet they pronounce it Doherty. One reason I have little luck finding my great grandmother Rosanna Dougherty Bustard. Yet we persist! Best to all for the holiday weekend. John Bustard, Drexel Hill, (West of Philly), PA! ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; "'IRL-Donegaleire-L'" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 12:34 PM Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] O'Doherty v Doherty > At the risk of interrupting the erudite discussions on chalking > gravestones, > I wonder can anyone help me with the Griffiths Valuation and the > O'Dohertys. > > > I have looked at both Bob's site and the Failte Romhat site and I can see > that the GV index shows there were only three "O" Dohertys in the whole of > Donegal (ignoring variations in spelling the Doherty bit) but over 100 > Dohertys (without the "O") in Fahan Lower alone. I assumed this is due to > officialdom's over zealous anglicisation of the name. And yet, while > looking for O'Dohertys, I noticed that there were hundreds of O'Donnells - > with an "O". Less evidence of anglicisation there. Anyone any other > suggestions just in case I were ever to be asked why the O'Dohertys are > only > found under Doherty? > > Boyd Gray > > http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Given that that his email expressed respect and reverence for preserving Irish heritage, I assume that he meant "treated like" a third world country. Email is often a difficult medium in which to correctly express your thoughts. It is hard to come up with a modern analogy for the way the Irish were treated. Phil [email protected] wrote: > Very few of my ancestors graves have stones. Does than make them repressed > and impoverished? I think not. Naw - they were just too mean to waste the > money on a headstone. > > (And when they did, all they said was "The Brewsters of Dromore". Yea > thanks, folks.) > > Actually, I don't often get cross with what is said in this list but I do > object to my country being called a Third World Country pre EU. Simmer > simmer. Try to remember that some Irish people frequent these lists too. > > Boyd Gray > > http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Siobhan > Sent: 02 July 2008 22:24 > To: [email protected]; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; > IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte > Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > > Well, speaking as a fellow American, I've only studied less than two dozen > cemeteries here in Ireland thus but I have come across older cemeteries > certainly. I have 13 others I've shot and begun transcribing, in varying > stages of completion, and the older stones I've photographed, dating from > the 1700s and 1800s can often be very hard to read so it's taking time to > decipher. A lot of them I can't even read with the naked eye and instead > rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they say. > Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better part of an > hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they'll only > continue to deteriorate. > > This was an extremely impoverished country for most of its history (I read > somewhere recently Ireland has suffered arguably the longest repressive > foreign occupation in history) and many of my own family members are in > unmarked plots, not because everyone figured they'd remember who was buried > where but because they couldn't afford markers, or markers that would stand > the test of time. You'll see even in more recent times, for example, in > this particular cemetery (Mevagh), that a number of markers were > handwritten. Most of we Americans don't really appreciate the fact that, > pre-EU, this country was considered to be a Third World country. > Additionally, many of the death registers have been lost, damaged or > destroyed over the years. > > What I have come across mostly though, and I'm guessing that it's because of > the winds, boggy soil and wet conditions, is that many of the older > gravestones have been fallen face down, or partially or even completely > submerged. Many have literally sunk below the surface of the ground and are > nothing more than lumps in nettle-ridden, overgrown grass. Perhaps the fact > that it's an island may also account for the extreme weathering of existing > stones. I've seen stones as recent as the 1980s and 1990s that are barely > legible anymore due to (I'm guessing) airborne sand and debris in the wind. > The faces of the stones just wear off. But these are just guesses on my > part. > > That's actually why, albeit temporarily, I've joined the folks who, like > Jane (who moderates Y-IRL and has contributed a mind-boggling amount of data > via her website for us amateur genealogists) feel the urgency to preserve > the information on these decaying stones. Some may not seem old now but > they sure will to the generations who follow us, who'll never otherwise get > a chance to read > and/or see these stones in legible condition. Fortunately, I'm pretty > certain that, if only for its Catholic origins, the Irish don't mess with > their cemeteries, they don't re-site them or re-use the stones. :o) > > > Siobhán > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Jane Ward <[email protected]> > To: IRL-CO-Donegal <[email protected]>; IRL-Donegal - List > <[email protected]>; IRL-Donegaleire-L > <[email protected]>; hiflyte <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:57:48 PM > Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > > A question, from an ignorant American. > All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier > burials? Older graveyards? > Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure I've > seen earlier gravestones on our travels. > Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one thought > it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they were? > > > --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> From: hiflyte <[email protected]> >> Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal >> To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegal - >> List" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" >> <[email protected]> >> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM List Members, >> >> Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- >> >> Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for Mevagh Church >> Graveyard in Cty Donegal. >> >> "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal's northern >> coastline on an unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), >> along the signposted Atlantic Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates >> N55.21062, W7.81094" >> >> I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. >> >> You can view the file at: >> http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv >> >> The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- soon. >> http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ >> >> Have a nice day >> Bob >> Cdn >> >> When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which >> you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. >> Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it >> coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ >> >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE >> ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE >> >> >> SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: >> Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ >> Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ >> Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Dear List Thought this might be of interest. Can any listers assist? Kind regards (Lt.Col.) Dave Mitchell, Cape Town, South Africa PS. I have no (known) connection with the author. If I am offending list etiquette by drawing attention to a commercial product that is expected sometime in the future, I apologise. My motive is simply to encourage good disclosure and recognition for the volunteerism and courage of the brave young men who served -- this is their story! They have earned the right to call for our assistance and tribute. ......................................................................................................................................... For your information .... from yesterday's "Londonderry Sentinel" -- see the article below, or otherwise please go to website : http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/news/Historian-seeking-help-on-soldier.4240513.jp This is a call for items and photos on Derrymen who served in the 10th Inniskillings in WWI (1914 - 1918), and especially a plea to identify a photo -- possibly of Reuben Orr, of Bond Street. ......................................................................................................................................... Londonderry Sentinel Published Date: 02 July 2008 By Freelance A LONDONDERRY author bringing out a new edition of his book charting the fortunes of local soldiers fighting in the first world war is looking for Sentinel readers' help in identifying the youngest member of the regiment. Gardiner Mitchell from Eglinton is bringing out a new edition of his book Three Cheers for the Derrys! in the autumn and anyone with information and photos of the 10th Royal Iniskilling Fusiliers has just four weeks to submit them for possible inclusion in the book. Three Cheers was first published in 1991 and Gardiner has unearthed a wealth of new information to boost the volume's size by a third for the definitive 2008 edition. Copies of the original, which has become scarce, have been seen going for up to £130 on auction site eBay. Gardiner is particularly interested to hear from anyone who can help him ascertain whether the soldier pictured beside this article is Reuben Orr, a young man who died at the age of 17 on 1st July 1916. Reuben was the youngest soldier in the regiment and was too young to join up when he left these shores to fight for the Empire against Germany. He came from Bond Street, his mother was widowed and he had no brothers or sisters. Is the young man in the photo Reuben? Keen photographer Gardiner has digitally enhanced the many old photos included in the first edition and many new photos obtained in the intervening years will be seen for the first time. "The photos in the new book are digitally enhanced so they look better than ever," he says. "The book itself will remain the same, but there is loads of new information and new photos. The new edition will be a third bigger than the last. "It is the last book ever to be written with first hand accounts from veterans of the great war. We know these images and information are out there. "This is the last chance for people to submit new material, which must be first-hand, which may be included in the new book." Gardiner hopes the new edition will be published in time for this year's remembrance day. Those with photos or material they think may be of interest can contact Yes publications on 10-12 Bishop Street, call 02871261941 or email [email protected] The full article contains 417 words and appears in Londonderry Sentinel newspaper. Page 1 of 1 a.. Last Updated: 02 July 2008 4:54 PM b.. Source: Londonderry Sentinel c.. Location: Waterside http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/news/Historian-seeking-help-on-soldier.4240513.jp

Have you found the name "Edmonstone" on any of the gravestones? Joan La Grone > > > ******************************************* >

Perhaps you should read 'How the Irish saved Civilization' by Thomas Cahill if you really believe your remark about Ireland before the EU. My great grandfather McGroarty was born in Donegal and if you read a bit about the history of his surname you will get an idea of the history and culture of this magnificent country. Visit the museums in Dublin and the archaeological sites throughout the country and you will learn about a country which did not need the EU to be one of the most civilized. I have been traveling to Ireland since the 1960s and found an amazing country with a rich cultural past. Hardly third world. Catherine Riley Billups 26 Frazione Zerbo 27040 Montu' Beccaria (PV) Italy tel (39) 0385 262404 Noto (39) 0931 836732 [email protected] On Jul 2, 2008, at 11:36 PM, <[email protected]> <[email protected] > wrote: > Very few of my ancestors graves have stones. Does than make them > repressed > and impoverished? I think not. Naw - they were just too mean to > waste the > money on a headstone. > > (And when they did, all they said was "The Brewsters of Dromore". Yea > thanks, folks.) > > Actually, I don't often get cross with what is said in this list but > I do > object to my country being called a Third World Country pre EU. > Simmer > simmer. Try to remember that some Irish people frequent these lists > too. > > Boyd Gray > > http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Siobhan > Sent: 02 July 2008 22:24 > To: [email protected]; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; > IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte > Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > > Well, speaking as a fellow American, I’ve only studied less than two > dozen > cemeteries here in Ireland thus but I have come across older > cemeteries > certainly. I have 13 others I've shot and begun transcribing, in > varying > stages of completion, and the older stones I’ve photographed, dating > from > the 1700s and 1800s can often be very hard to read so it’s taking > time to > decipher. A lot of them I can’t even read with the naked eye and > instead > rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they > say. > Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better > part of an > hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they’ll only > continue to deteriorate. > > This was an extremely impoverished country for most of its history > (I read > somewhere recently Ireland has suffered arguably the longest > repressive > foreign occupation in history) and many of my own family members are > in > unmarked plots, not because everyone figured they’d remember who was > buried > where but because they couldn’t afford markers, or markers that > would stand > the test of time. You’ll see even in more recent times, for > example, in > this particular cemetery (Mevagh), that a number of markers were > handwritten. Most of we Americans don’t really appreciate the fact > that, > pre-EU, this country was considered to be a Third World country. > Additionally, many of the death registers have been lost, damaged or > destroyed over the years. > > What I have come across mostly though, and I’m guessing that it’s > because of > the winds, boggy soil and wet conditions, is that many of the older > gravestones have been fallen face down, or partially or even > completely > submerged. Many have literally sunk below the surface of the ground > and are > nothing more than lumps in nettle-ridden, overgrown grass. Perhaps > the fact > that it’s an island may also account for the extreme weathering of > existing > stones. I’ve seen stones as recent as the 1980s and 1990s that are > barely > legible anymore due to (I’m guessing) airborne sand and debris in > the wind. > The faces of the stones just wear off. But these are just guesses > on my > part. > > That’s actually why, albeit temporarily, I’ve joined the folks who, > like > Jane (who moderates Y-IRL and has contributed a mind-boggling amount > of data > via her website for us amateur genealogists) feel the urgency to > preserve > the information on these decaying stones. Some may not seem old now > but > they sure will to the generations who follow us, who’ll never > otherwise get > a chance to read > and/or see these stones in legible condition. Fortunately, I'm pretty > certain that, if only for its Catholic origins, the Irish don't mess > with > their cemeteries, they don't re-site them or re-use the stones. :o) > > > Siobhán > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Jane Ward <[email protected]> > To: IRL-CO-Donegal <[email protected]>; IRL-Donegal - List > <[email protected]>; IRL-Donegaleire-L > <[email protected]>; hiflyte <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:57:48 PM > Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > > A question, from an ignorant American. > All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier > burials? Older graveyards? > Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure > I've > seen earlier gravestones on our travels. > Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one > thought > it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they were? > > > --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: hiflyte <[email protected]> >> Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal >> To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegal - >> List" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" >> <[email protected]> >> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM List Members, >> >> Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- >> >> Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for Mevagh >> Church >> Graveyard in Cty Donegal. >> >> "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s northern >> coastline on an unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), >> along the signposted Atlantic Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates >> N55.21062, W7.81094" >> >> I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. >> >> You can view the file at: >> http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv >> >> The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- soon. >> http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ >> >> Have a nice day >> Bob >> Cdn >> >> When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which >> you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. >> Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it >> coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ >> >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE >> ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE >> >> >> SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: >> Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ >> Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ >> Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to > which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides > with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE > ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to > which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides > with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE > ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to > which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your > reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it > coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE > ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Siobhan . If you take a piece of Chalk and rub it across the engravings they stand out . Laurie "A lot of them I can’t even read with the naked eye and instead rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they say. Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better part of an hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they’ll only continue to deteriorate."

Hi Listers, For those of you already in Donegal, or arriving very soon, don't forget that the O'Dochartaigh Clann Reunion is doing some genealogy sessions this coming weekend. On Saturday there are "workshops" at the Gateway Hotel Buncrana between 12 and 5pm and on Monday there is an "Open Forum and Discussion" in the Ballyliffan Hotel from 7pm til 11pm. Not really sure what either entails though I may be contributing to one of them! But I don't think they are confined to the name Doherty. Boyd Gray http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm

Watch this space - big news on Lindel tomorrow. When it is reported in the DD, I will post the link. Boyd Gray http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Margaret Graham Sent: 02 July 2008 23:04 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] DONEGALEIRE Digest, Vol 3, Issue 159 --Re Old headstones. Plenty of them in the graveyards around here, Drumholm, Killymard, The Old Abbey, Carn, and these are just some examples around my area. I found a headstone dating from 1611 in Killymard and it is was perfectly legible, they date back in these graveyards to the 16/17/ and 1800s. Wonder where the idea came from that we were a third world country before the EU, I grew up here in Donegal and I and my family are still here, we were always very much "first world" and we were not rich either just an average family, we certainly never considered ourselves to be like the starving people in the third world countries of today. Incidentally, I had lunch with Lindel and Muriel in Letterkenny last week and we had a lovely time, Lindel is coming over to visit on Friday and I am meeting her again, it was a wonderful experience to meet her. She is having a great time here. The only gripe I would have about headstones is the fact that so little information is on most of them, not even the name of the Townland. I think that a wife's maiden name should be recorded, I have got photos of gravestones from friends in Canada and America and they are much more detailed and sometimes it is the only way that people can accurately trace their family who emigrated as the records may not be so good at home in Ireland. Margaret When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

--Re Old headstones. Plenty of them in the graveyards around here, Drumholm, Killymard, The Old Abbey, Carn, and these are just some examples around my area. I found a headstone dating from 1611 in Killymard and it is was perfectly legible, they date back in these graveyards to the 16/17/ and 1800s. Wonder where the idea came from that we were a third world country before the EU, I grew up here in Donegal and I and my family are still here, we were always very much "first world" and we were not rich either just an average family, we certainly never considered ourselves to be like the starving people in the third world countries of today. Incidentally, I had lunch with Lindel and Muriel in Letterkenny last week and we had a lovely time, Lindel is coming over to visit on Friday and I am meeting her again, it was a wonderful experience to meet her. She is having a great time here. The only gripe I would have about headstones is the fact that so little information is on most of them, not even the name of the Townland. I think that a wife's maiden name should be recorded, I have got photos of gravestones from friends in Canada and America and they are much more detailed and sometimes it is the only way that people can accurately trace their family who emigrated as the records may not be so good at home in Ireland. Margaret

Very few of my ancestors graves have stones. Does than make them repressed and impoverished? I think not. Naw - they were just too mean to waste the money on a headstone. (And when they did, all they said was "The Brewsters of Dromore". Yea thanks, folks.) Actually, I don't often get cross with what is said in this list but I do object to my country being called a Third World Country pre EU. Simmer simmer. Try to remember that some Irish people frequent these lists too. Boyd Gray http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Siobhan Sent: 02 July 2008 22:24 To: [email protected]; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal Well, speaking as a fellow American, I’ve only studied less than two dozen cemeteries here in Ireland thus but I have come across older cemeteries certainly. I have 13 others I've shot and begun transcribing, in varying stages of completion, and the older stones I’ve photographed, dating from the 1700s and 1800s can often be very hard to read so it’s taking time to decipher. A lot of them I can’t even read with the naked eye and instead rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they say. Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better part of an hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they’ll only continue to deteriorate. This was an extremely impoverished country for most of its history (I read somewhere recently Ireland has suffered arguably the longest repressive foreign occupation in history) and many of my own family members are in unmarked plots, not because everyone figured they’d remember who was buried where but because they couldn’t afford markers, or markers that would stand the test of time. You’ll see even in more recent times, for example, in this particular cemetery (Mevagh), that a number of markers were handwritten. Most of we Americans don’t really appreciate the fact that, pre-EU, this country was considered to be a Third World country. Additionally, many of the death registers have been lost, damaged or destroyed over the years. What I have come across mostly though, and I’m guessing that it’s because of the winds, boggy soil and wet conditions, is that many of the older gravestones have been fallen face down, or partially or even completely submerged. Many have literally sunk below the surface of the ground and are nothing more than lumps in nettle-ridden, overgrown grass. Perhaps the fact that it’s an island may also account for the extreme weathering of existing stones. I’ve seen stones as recent as the 1980s and 1990s that are barely legible anymore due to (I’m guessing) airborne sand and debris in the wind. The faces of the stones just wear off. But these are just guesses on my part. That’s actually why, albeit temporarily, I’ve joined the folks who, like Jane (who moderates Y-IRL and has contributed a mind-boggling amount of data via her website for us amateur genealogists) feel the urgency to preserve the information on these decaying stones. Some may not seem old now but they sure will to the generations who follow us, who’ll never otherwise get a chance to read and/or see these stones in legible condition. Fortunately, I'm pretty certain that, if only for its Catholic origins, the Irish don't mess with their cemeteries, they don't re-site them or re-use the stones. :o) Siobhán ----- Original Message ---- From: Jane Ward <[email protected]> To: IRL-CO-Donegal <[email protected]>; IRL-Donegal - List <[email protected]>; IRL-Donegaleire-L <[email protected]>; hiflyte <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:57:48 PM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal A question, from an ignorant American. All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier burials? Older graveyards? Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure I've seen earlier gravestones on our travels. Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one thought it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they were? --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <[email protected]> wrote: > From: hiflyte <[email protected]> > Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegal - > List" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" > <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM List Members, > > Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- > > Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for Mevagh Church > Graveyard in Cty Donegal. > > "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s northern > coastline on an unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), > along the signposted Atlantic Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates > N55.21062, W7.81094" > > I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. > > You can view the file at: > http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv > > The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- soon. > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ > > Have a nice day > Bob > Cdn > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which > you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. > Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it > coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE > ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Folks, Ireland and especially Donegal is heaving with old gravestones. Most Catholic and Presbyterian churches do not have stones pre 1850 because those denominations were not allowed to bury officially until 1845/1864. But Church of Ireland graveyards will have gravestones going back to the 18th century, some of them belonging to Catholics and Presbyterians. If you check out Lindel's website, you will find zillions: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/mis.htm Boyd Gray http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of judy smith Sent: 02 July 2008 21:43 To: [email protected]; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal Jane, Re: No OLD pre: 1800's grave stones to be seen in old Irish cemeteries. I noticed that as well. My people came over to America c.1848 so we have grave stones here in America - New York - Boston - Portland Maine. SNIP

Please, NO!!!!. I researched the topic and wrote the following for our local genealogy newsletter last year: We rely on information on tombstones to help us in our research. Projects around the world transcribe cemeteries and make them available for those who can't visit. But how do you transcribe weathered tombstones without causing further damage. We are aware that items that we used in the past, such as shaving cream, may help temporarily but accelerate the damage caused by acid rain, vegetation and insects. I've done some research, in the interest of saving the tombstones for our descendants. Help Preserve Our Cemeteries (http://www.ucalgary.ca/~dsucha/preserve.html): Don't spray or rub anything into monuments in an attempt to make the inscriptions more visible. I have heard of people who rub shaving cream or chalk into tombstones so that the inscriptions stand out. There are many non-invasive ways of reading an inscription. Often a simple white card to reflect the light at an angle, or waiting for the right time of day, will make the inscription jump out. It is better to wait a couple of hours rather than risk damaging an historic monument. The Association for Gravestone Studies (http://www.gravestonestudies.org/welcome.htm): . Don't use shaving cream, chalk, graphite, dirt, or other concoctions in an attempt to read worn inscriptions. Use a mirror to shine sunlight across the face of a stone, making the lettering stand out. Always prefer a non-invasive method on gravestones just as we do on medical tests on our own bodies . Don't use detergents, soaps, vinegar, bleach, or any other cleaning solutions on the stone, no matter how mild! . Don't use stiff-bristled or wire brushes, putty knives, nail files, or any metal object to clean or to remove lichen from the stone; Soft natural bristled brushes, whisk brooms, or wooden sticks are usually OK if used gently and carefully . Don't attempt to remove stubborn lichen. Soft lichen may be thoroughly soaked with plain water and then loosened with a gum eraser or a wooden popsicle stick. Be gentle. Stop if lichen does not come off easily. Saving Graves (http://www.savinggraves.org/education/bookshelf/rubbings.htm) says: A Note About Shaving Cream, Flour Or Chalk: A word of advice, DON'T use shaving cream , chalk, flour or anything else on tombstones!. These have many ingredients harmful to tombstones (like butane) and in some cases can be abrasive. There are a number of websites that promote this method, with one going so far as to assure that the shaving cream will not harm the stone. Please do not attempt this as you WILL be causing a great of damage to the stone and even by washing it after you are finished you will not remove all of the material that you have placed on the stone. More detailed information on why not to use shaving cream on a stone can be found here. In the case of flour, "introducing a starchy organic material to the stone is a death knell for it. not only will feed the lichens that are there but will introduce new ones which will have little natural competition. Also, wheat paste, which the flour essentially becomes when that first rain pours down (or the first dew forms) is a great adhesive. Just because we can't see any of it doesn't mean that it is all gone. Those little fungi and microbes love that sort of stuff and it is best not to introduce anything to the surface of the stone." According to the Crayola website, Molded chalk, such as Crayola Colored chalk, is a softer chalk, made of plaster of Paris, which is defined as quick-setting gypsum plaster consisting of a fine, white powder, calcium sulfate hemihydrate, which hardens when moistened and allowed to dry. Sidewalk chalk is much harder than regular chalk; in fact, will actually scratch a typical chalkboard. Saving Graves received the following response from Crayola concerning the use of sidewalk chalk: "Crayola sidewalk chalk contains plaster of paris which has a gritty texture. Plaster of paris is not considered to be biodegradable, nor are most of the pigments contained in Crayola sidewalk chalk. Also, product packaging warns of colorants that may stain. This could be a good factor depending on the exact nature of what you are trying to do. While packaging does warn of colorants that may stain, chalk used outside generally washes away because of extreme weather conditions and excessive rain. Again, this could vary depending on the surface it is applied to." Mike More [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Laurie Thompson Sent: July 2, 2008 6:09 PM To: Siobhan; [email protected]; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte Subject: Re: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - CtyDonegal Siobhan . If you take a piece of Chalk and rub it across the engravings they stand out . Laurie

In a message dated 7/2/2008 3:04:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Plenty of them in the graveyards around here, Drumholm, Killymard, The Old Abbey, Carn, and these are just some examples around my area. I found a headstone dating from 1611 in Killymard and it is was perfectly legible, they date back in these graveyards to the 16/17/ and 1800s. Margaret, have you ever run across any McGonigle gravestones in Killymard? I saw one in the Old Abbey churchyard when we were visiting Donegal way back in 1962. We met a distant cousin of mine (through the landlady of a pub we wandered into!) who took us out there. He hunted through the very tall grass for a bit, and then located a flat stone with raised lettering. He said if it had been incised, it probably would be long gone! The stonecutter had done the bit of raising some letters, like the c above the M, and joining others, but it was quite legible. It read: "HERE LIETH THE BODY OF PATRICK MCGONIGAIL WHO DEPARTED THIS LIFE 2D MAR 1732 ALSO THE BODY OF ELINOR DEVERALIAS MCGONIGAIL WHO DEPARTED T" and that was it, leaving about 1/3 of the stone uncut! We wonder if Elinor remarried and is buried elsewhere with a second husband. We have not so far been able to connect this Patrick with my g-grandfather and his brothers and sisters, who were born in the 1790s..........the family was found later in Drumgornan, where they were farmers and eventually owned several plots of land. My g-g-uncles and one sister emigrated in 1818, and g-g-grandfather emigrated in 1831, while a sister and probably two brothers, Patrick and Charles, remained behind. Unfortunately when we were there, we were on a tight schedule and couldn't linger to do further research, and I've never been able to get back. Margo So. CA **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (www.tourtracker.com ?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

Jane, Re: No OLD pre: 1800's grave stones to be seen in old Irish cemeteries. I noticed that as well. My people came over to America c.1848 so we have grave stones here in America - New York - Boston - Portland Maine. Would love to see really OLD markers in Ireland. Erin Go Bragh! Judy Corbin Smith, [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Ward" <[email protected]> To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <[email protected]>; "IRL-Donegal - List" <[email protected]>; "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <[email protected]>; "hiflyte" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal >A question, from an ignorant American. > All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier > burials? Older graveyards? > Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure I've > seen earlier gravestones on our travels. > Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one > thought it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they > were? > > > --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: hiflyte <[email protected]> >> Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal >> To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegal - >> List" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" >> <[email protected]> >> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM >> List Members, >> >> Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- >> >> Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for >> Mevagh Church >> Graveyard in Cty Donegal. >> >> "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s >> northern coastline >> on an >> unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), along >> the signposted >> Atlantic >> Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates N55.21062, >> W7.81094" >> >> I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. >> >> You can view the file at: >> http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv >> >> The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- >> soon. >> http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ >> >> Have a nice day >> Bob >> Cdn >> >> When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific >> text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the >> digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the >> subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message >> subject to which you are replying. >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED >> ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ >> >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE >> SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE >> >> >> SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: >> Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ >> Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ >> Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, speaking as a fellow American, I’ve only studied less than two dozen cemeteries here in Ireland thus but I have come across older cemeteries certainly. I have 13 others I've shot and begun transcribing, in varying stages of completion, and the older stones I’ve photographed, dating from the 1700s and 1800s can often be very hard to read so it’s taking time to decipher. A lot of them I can’t even read with the naked eye and instead rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they say. Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better part of an hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they’ll only continue to deteriorate. This was an extremely impoverished country for most of its history (I read somewhere recently Ireland has suffered arguably the longest repressive foreign occupation in history) and many of my own family members are in unmarked plots, not because everyone figured they’d remember who was buried where but because they couldn’t afford markers, or markers that would stand the test of time. You’ll see even in more recent times, for example, in this particular cemetery (Mevagh), that a number of markers were handwritten. Most of we Americans don’t really appreciate the fact that, pre-EU, this country was considered to be a Third World country. Additionally, many of the death registers have been lost, damaged or destroyed over the years. What I have come across mostly though, and I’m guessing that it’s because of the winds, boggy soil and wet conditions, is that many of the older gravestones have been fallen face down, or partially or even completely submerged. Many have literally sunk below the surface of the ground and are nothing more than lumps in nettle-ridden, overgrown grass. Perhaps the fact that it’s an island may also account for the extreme weathering of existing stones. I’ve seen stones as recent as the 1980s and 1990s that are barely legible anymore due to (I’m guessing) airborne sand and debris in the wind. The faces of the stones just wear off. But these are just guesses on my part. That’s actually why, albeit temporarily, I’ve joined the folks who, like Jane (who moderates Y-IRL and has contributed a mind-boggling amount of data via her website for us amateur genealogists) feel the urgency to preserve the information on these decaying stones. Some may not seem old now but they sure will to the generations who follow us, who’ll never otherwise get a chance to read and/or see these stones in legible condition. Fortunately, I'm pretty certain that, if only for its Catholic origins, the Irish don't mess with their cemeteries, they don't re-site them or re-use the stones. :o) Siobhán ----- Original Message ---- From: Jane Ward <[email protected]> To: IRL-CO-Donegal <[email protected]>; IRL-Donegal - List <[email protected]>; IRL-Donegaleire-L <[email protected]>; hiflyte <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:57:48 PM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal A question, from an ignorant American. All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier burials? Older graveyards? Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure I've seen earlier gravestones on our travels. Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one thought it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they were? --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <[email protected]> wrote: > From: hiflyte <[email protected]> > Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegal - List" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM > List Members, > > Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- > > Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for > Mevagh Church > Graveyard in Cty Donegal. > > "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s > northern coastline > on an > unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), along > the signposted > Atlantic > Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates N55.21062, > W7.81094" > > I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. > > You can view the file at: > http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv > > The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- > soon. > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ > > Have a nice day > Bob > Cdn > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific > text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the > digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the > subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message > subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED > ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE > SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A question, from an ignorant American. All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier burials? Older graveyards? Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure I've seen earlier gravestones on our travels. Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one thought it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they were? --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <[email protected]> wrote: > From: hiflyte <[email protected]> > Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegal - List" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM > List Members, > > Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- > > Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for > Mevagh Church > Graveyard in Cty Donegal. > > "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s > northern coastline > on an > unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), along > the signposted > Atlantic > Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates N55.21062, > W7.81094" > > I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. > > You can view the file at: > http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv > > The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- > soon. > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ > > Have a nice day > Bob > Cdn > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific > text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the > digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the > subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message > subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED > ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE > SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

List Members, Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for Mevagh Church Graveyard in Cty Donegal. "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s northern coastline on an unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), along the signposted Atlantic Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates N55.21062, W7.81094" I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. You can view the file at: http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- soon. http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ Have a nice day Bob Cdn

List Members, IGPA Update Summary for the Month of June 2008 A number of files of interest to those searching the Donegal area have been uploaded to the Ireland Genealogy Project Archives (IGPA) for the month of May. http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ Click on Donegal Donegal Cemetery Records: Miscellaneous Records Martins of East Central Donegal, submitted by Liam Martin The Mathew Martins of St. Johnston, Donegal submitted by Liam Martin Donegal Vital Records McConnel Deaths, Will Probate, submitted by Anne Ward -------------------------------------------- Laois Queens No new data has been added ------------------------------------ I would like to thank all those researchers who have contributed files to the Donegal Archives. These individuals are making our task much simpler by depositing their research data on a public forum for all to utilize. --------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- Have you some item of genealogy interest, all types of files, photos of documents, headstones are welcomed at the Archives. If you would like to contribute files or images to the Donegal Archive please contact me or sent the files to my email address listed on the home page of the IGPA website. Contributions for other counties in Ireland are also welcomed, contact the county coordinator listed on the home page http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ Thanks to All Bob Cdn IGPA - Donegal - Laois File Manager ==================================

Bob, Thank you for the very interesting post on the LDS digitisation process. Regards, Ken ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam

Question for the group......   I have compiled quite a stack of paper and would like to digitize the files -- yet able to modifiy to data once it is digitized.  I understand I need to use Optimization Character Resolution (OCR) software to do what I want to do...  Does any have a recommendation of hardware and/or software that would enable me to do both photos/PDFs and articles?     many thanks. --- On Sun, 6/29/08, hiflyte <[email protected]> wrote: From: hiflyte <[email protected]> Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] How the LDS Digitize the Films To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegal - List" <[email protected]>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 9:38 AM Hi, Gen but information only on the Digitization Project at the LDS/FHC Church If not interest hit the delete key. I was browsing the web and came across this explanation of how the digitization project is handled in the deep dark vaults of Granite Mountain Vaults in the Salt Lake area. The actual Record Search site (pilot project ) is at: http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html?datestamp=1183776820771#p=0 New or updated items have a red start adjacent to their name - hyperlink I am not a member of the LDS church just a big time user of their FHCs and CD they sell. Have a nice day Bob Cdn ------------------------------------------ Unlocking the Vault: Conversion to Digital Records is Progressing By Brittany Karford, Church Magazines Members may not have to wonder what lies behind the 14-ton vault door at the Church's Granite Mountain Records Vault (GMRV) facility for much longer. In as little as 10 years, much of its genealogical collection may be at their fingertips. The billions of names preserved on microfilmed records at the vault are being converted to digital images that can eventually be viewed online at FamilySearch.org and ultimately searched in and linked to an online index. The process of digitizing the microfilm is now faster than ever through a "bleeding edge" technology system called FamilySearch^(TM) Scanning. "I call it unlocking the vault," says Heath Nielson, the program's lead software engineer. "I cannot wait for the day when accessibility to these records becomes available to all." When that day comes, the records will be available to everyone, both Latter-day Saints and the public---"God's children everywhere"---according to the project team. And for those researching family history under either title, it will mean no more microfilm, and no more eyes strained from looking at film under dim light. The vision, says Brent Thompson, director of records preservation, is that in the future members in Lima, Peru, who now wait up to six or eight weeks for microfilm, will be able to go to a family history center or anywhere with Internet access and look at records with the click of a button. It is a giant first step toward putting most of the family history collection of the GMRV online. Online images and indexes of birth, marriage, and death records from all over the world may altogether change how family history work is done. Currently, only a minority of members pursue family history work, but the accessibility enabled through FamilySearch Scanning will make it simple for anyone with Internet access to get involved. Brother Thompson believes they will, though at first he didn't dream digitizing the collection would be possible. "I couldn't imagine it possible in my lifetime," he says. "I couldn't imagine it possible in /my children's/ lifetime." At the rate they were going prior to the FamilySearch Scanning technology, it was estimated that it would take 120 years to convert applicable films to digital. That same projection is now less than 30 years, perhaps sooner with planned expansions of additional scanners. The team that couldn't fathom living to see the end result will now be the team that will someday complete the digitizing process. So how does it work? One vault worker loads rolls of film into a pod of scanners and presses "Go". The scanner then takes one comprehensive video picture and transfers that continuous file to another computer, where an application analyzes the contrast of the ribbon for quality and splits each frame into individual JPEGs (a digital file of an image). To finish, a good pair of eyes reviews the job and processes the newly created JPEGs. The digital images are then readied for use by the Church's online indexing program, where volunteers over time will help extract the birth, marriage, and death information from the images to create free searchable indexes online (like the 1880 U.S., 1880 Canada, and 1881 British Censuses currently found at FamilySearch.org). This is a great improvement over the process used just a little more than a year ago, where one person had to be present throughout the entire process, manually scrutinizing each frame. Through three to four feet of film, one technician would adjust the light and contrast with the film density changes, watching every image come across the screen and cutting it out. "We thought, 'How can we apply computer technology to save these poor people's eyes?' " explains Derek Dobson, product manager. "And how can we more quickly convert these microfilms to digital images so people can access them more readily on the Internet?" Enter Heath Nielson and a team of engineers. Not only does the computer system they developed speed the process up, but by taking the frames on a continuous file, it retains the contextual information of each slide as a piece of a whole. "In the computer, it's not piecemeal. You can look at a single frame next to its neighbors, and it tells you something about it," Brother Nielson says. Also, with the manual process there was no way of knowing if they had missed an image, something that is not a factor with the continuous file. Though the technology is not entirely novel, their ability to act and the Church's ability to execute and implement the technology for its intended purposes makes them pioneers in the field. Yet setting the program into motion has not been without its glitches. "It's something I still feel fervently about," Brother Nielson says. "I knew that if this was something we needed to do, there would be a way provided." And there was. In the hard and frustrating times, he said they would find just what mechanism they needed and receive help from specific individuals just when they needed it---one step at a time. On just four scanners, they have tripled output---yet they've still only completed four percent of the targeted films at the vault, and more films are coming in. This year alone, they expect to acquire an additional 28,000, says Wayne Crosby, general manager of GMVR. They have a lot of work to do. The good news is they are two to three years away from completing the transition from microfilm cameras to digital cameras. When this transition is complete, only the existing microfilm collection will need to be converted to digital. Film and microfiche will continue to be stored in the vault, even after their digital conversion. "The polyester film lasts 300 to 500 years and will continue to be used for long-term preservation," Brother Crosby explains, noting that the digitizing of the records is to make them more accessible to family history researchers, not to make preservation easier. And so it's back into the long, chilly corridors deep within Granite Mountain for not only the polyester films, but the new digital records as well. There they will reside in one of six 190-foot long rooms. About 1 million rolls of film are held in each vault, maintained at a constant 55 degrees and 30 percent humidity, ideal for preservation. From the doorway, the row after row of monstrous file cabinets creates the impression of having fallen into /Alice and Wonderland/ and stepped into a strange office where filing cabinets stretch from floor to ceiling. But the vault where the digital images are stored is for the most part empty (One DVD can hold up to 4 digitized microfilms). A few short cabinets hold what's been converted so far, and the expansiveness of the room whispers of a future when it will be filled. When that day comes, most members will be able to access the digital images of the films anywhere they have Internet access---from their homes or local Family History Center---through the Church's genealogical Web site, http://www.familysearch.org; and the staff at GMVR won't be bundling in their coats as often to retrieve fiche and film. "Think how easy that will be," says Paul Nauta, public relations manager for the Family and Church History Department. "In the future individuals anywhere in the world through the Internet will be able to search the majority of the GMRV's film collection and the billions of names currently hidden in them---all from the convenience of their homes or family history center." "Won't it be nice if in between naps and playing with my children, I can jump on the Internet and do family history research," says Brother Nielson. "This technology is the answer to our hopes, our dreams, and our prayers," Brother Thompson adds. He smiles, looking out one of the main office windows---or rather, a giant half-dome portal that opens the granite slab to the north-facing alpine slope across the canyon. About to step out of the paper-and-film world that has shaped his profession, he reflects on the mountainside. "What a view," he says, "and what a great resource this is for the Church. What an inspiration it was to build this facility in a solid wall of granite." ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message