Hi Lisa, It seems there were NO Melvilles in Donegal in the main survery we have for the 19th century, the Griffiths Valuation. Have a look here: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hiflyte/iredata/Griff_Val/ gvdonegal.htm Regards, Boyd -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lisa McKeown Sent: 23 September 2008 20:45 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Freen/Frain Hello All. Many thanks for the response to the Freen enquiry.  My friend was delighted to see that their were others who were familiar with the surname.  She says that, for the moment, she would carefully look through the correspondence sent, then try and see if she can go a little bit further on her own with this enquiry.  She thamks you all for your input, I do too.  My own interests would be Melvilles, but I do not think that many of that surname are to be found in Co Donegal, past or present? Many thanks again, Lisa. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Lisa, MacLysaght 'The Surnames of Ireland' MELVILLE A rare name of Norman origin now mainly found in Ulster [which historically includes Donegal]. It is sometimes used as a synonym of Mulvihill and of Mulfaal. LAVELLE O Maolfhabhail (faball, movement). This, formerly more correctly anglicized Mulfaal, is the name of a north Connacht sept found also in Donegal, where it is sometimes corrupted to Fall. It is also disguised as Melville. See 'More Irish Families'. (O) MULVIHILL, MULVILLE O Maoilmhichil (devotee of St Michael). Now much scattered but formerly a sept of note in Connacht. The name has been changed to Mulville and Melville in Clare and Galway and to Mitchell in Ulster. See 'Irish Families' and 'More Irish Families'. Prevalent in Roscommon. [The western province of Connacht comprised counties Galway, Leitrim, Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo]. Rob Doragh Liverpool UK Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Freen/Frain - My own interests would be Melvilles, but I do not think that many of that surname are to be found in Co Donegal, past or present? Lisa. _________________________________________________________________ Discover Bird's Eye View now with Multimap from Live Search http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354026/direct/01/

Hello All. Many thanks for the response to the Freen enquiry.  My friend was delighted to see that their were others who were familiar with the surname.  She says that, for the moment, she would carefully look through the correspondence sent, then try and see if she can go a little bit further on her own with this enquiry.  She thamks you all for your input, I do too.  My own interests would be Melvilles, but I do not think that many of that surname are to be found in Co Donegal, past or present? Many thanks again, Lisa. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Does anyone know if there is a list of burials in St. Peters cemetery? John Cunningham

----- For all you people who are researching their ancestors from Drumholm/Laghey or Kilbarron Church of Ireland Parishes, a new handbook is now ready for publication. Sylvia Arkinson has spent the last two or three years transcribing every stone in the graveyard at Mullinacross, she has unearthed stones that were under the soil and covered them up again. She is calling it a handbook as she feels it is to assist people looking for their ancestors. The handbook contains 140 A4 pages and has a map of the graveyard with all graves numbered, Burial Records from the original Registers, and the names on the headstones as well as photographs of the various types of headstones. It has been a monumental [get the pun] task and she is ready to have it printed. After the initial cost all moneys will go to Drumholm Parish Church. It will cost approximately 10 euro plus postage and packing. If anyone wants one they can get in touch with me initially. Margaret

Jane Re:- "Could you check the Electoral roll for Feddis' for me?" 2001 Eletoral Roll FEDDIS,COLETTE,51,,WOODLANDS PARK,,,,BLACKROCK,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,CLARE,51,,WOODLANDS PARK,,,,BLACKROCK,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,DANIEL,51,,WOODLANDS PARK,,,,BLACKROCK,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,NOEL,51,,WOODLANDS PARK,,,,BLACKROCK,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,PAUL,65,,MOUNT MERRION AVENUE,,,,BLACKROCK,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,NUALA,22,,HYDE PARK,012859295,,,DALKEY,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,PHILIP,22,,HYDE PARK,012859295,,,DALKEY,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,SHARON,22,,HYDE PARK,012859295,,,DALKEY,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,MATHEW,20,,CROSTHWAITE PARK SOUTH,,,,DUN LAOGHAIRE,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,ANDREW,80,,GRANVILLE ROAD,,,,DUN LAOGHAIRE,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,DAVID,80,,GRANVILLE ROAD,,,,DUN LAOGHAIRE,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,MARIAN,80,,GRANVILLE ROAD,,,,DUN LAOGHAIRE,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,JUSTIN,21,,HONEY PARK COTTAGES,012840211,,,DUN LAOGHAIRE,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,JUSTIN,,TALBOT COTTAGE,TALBOT ROAD,,,,KILLINEY,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,MARIA,51,,,,,,MERRION GROVE,CO DUBLIN FEDDIS,CLARE,12,,FITZWILLIAM STREET UPPER,,,,DUBLIN 2, The 1911 Dublin census http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/ gives zero Feddis records but two FREENs Griffiths (1855) at the URL http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_family_search_form.php gives four FEDDISs in Ireland (in Meath) Liam "A bird in the bush is worth two in the cat" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Ward" <[email protected]> To: "Liam Martin" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:44 AM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Freen/Frain of Ireland > Liam, > We've just discovered the IFHS website with all it's online databases. We > found some FEDDIS's in County Cavan, and on the Griffith's. > Could you check the Electoral roll for Feddis' for me? The last of the > children seem to have been born in 1907, but we don't know what happened > to them afterward. > Thank you, and thanks for all of your insights. > Jane Ward > >

Rob The 2001 Electoral Roll gives 133 FRAYNEs , 140 FREENEYs and only one DE FREYNE in the Rep. of Ireland DE FREYNE,JOAN,,'AISLING',CUALA ROAD,,,,BRAY,CO WICKLOW If anyone wants the full list - send me an email Liam "A bird in the bush is worth two in the cat" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:45 PM Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Freen/Frain > > Hi Lisa and all, > > MacLysaght 'The Surnames of Ireland' > > FREEN - no entry > FRAIN, FRAYNE These are alternative forms of FREENEY also found in > Roscommon and north Mayo; occasionally for de FREYNE > FREENEY de Freine Well known in Waterford and adjacent counties. The > place called Freeneystown is in Co Kilkenny Also see the book 'More Irish > Families' > de FREYNE An Anglo-Norman family in Kilkenny. Freeney is a late popular > variant. The name is derived from the Latin fraxinus, French frene, ash > tree. > > Rob Doragh > > Liverpool UK > > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 [email protected] Subject: Freen/Frain of Ireland > trying to find out where the name Freen originated. family of Freen lived > in Raphoe, Donegal in the early 1900, and a prisoner Frain from Kings > County was transported to America in 1737, but that is as far as we can > go. Lisa > > _________________________________________________________________ > Discover Bird's Eye View now with Multimap from Live Search > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354026/direct/01/ > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1682 - Release Date: 9/20/2008 10:24

Lisa The 2001 Electoral roll gives four FREENs in the Rep. of Ireland FREEN,ALEXANDER,,,MAGHERABOY,,,,RAPHOE,CO DONEGAL FREEN,CYNTHIA,,,MAGHERABOY,,,,RAPHOE,CO DONEGAL FREEN,FRANCES,,,MAGHERABOY,,,,RAPHOE,CO DONEGAL FREEN,IAN,,,MAGHERABOY,,,,RAPHOE,CO DONEGAL and 47 FRAINs FRAIN,BRIDGET,,,MONAGURRA,,,,SHANAGARRY,CO CORK FRAIN,THOMAS,,,MONAGURRA,,,,SHANAGARRY,CO CORK FRAIN,CAOIMHE,29,,GLENAGEARY PARK,012853000,,,GLENAGEARY,CO DUBLIN FRAIN,PATRICK,29,,GLENAGEARY PARK,012853000,,,GLENAGEARY,CO DUBLIN FRAIN,SIOBHAN,29,,GLENAGEARY PARK,012853000,,,GLENAGEARY,CO DUBLIN FRAIN,MARY,,GREENPARK,TULLINADALY ROAD,,,,TUAM,CO GALWAY FRAIN,JULIE,,,CARTRON NORTH,,,,BALLYHAUNIS,CO MAYO FRAIN,THOMAS,,,CARTRON NORTH,,,,BALLYHAUNIS,CO MAYO FRAIN,MAYE,,,DOOGARY,,,,BALLYHAUNIS,CO MAYO FRAIN,THOMAS,,,TUBBER,,,,BALLYHAUNIS,CO MAYO FRAIN,PAULINE,,CLYDAGH HOUSE,KNOCKTHOMAS,,,,CASTLEBAR,CO MAYO FRAIN,MICHAEL,,,CLOONALLISON,,,,CHARLESTOWN,CO MAYO FRAIN,GRAINNE,,,DRUM,,,,CLAREMORRIS,CO MAYO FRAIN,SEAN,,,DRUM,,,,CLAREMORRIS,CO MAYO FRAIN,PATRICK,,,LISCOSKER,,,,KILKELLY,CO MAYO FRAIN,GERARD,,,BARCUL,09467325,,,KILKELLY,CO MAYO FRAIN,JOE,,,BARCUL,09467325,,,KILKELLY,CO MAYO FRAIN,NOREEN,,,BARCUL,09467325,,,KILKELLY,CO MAYO FRAIN,JOHN,,,BARNACAHOGE,,,,SWINFORD,CO MAYO FRAIN,MARGARET,,,CARROWCANADA,,,,SWINFORD,CO MAYO FRAIN,PADRAIC,,,CARROWCANADA,,,,SWINFORD,CO MAYO FRAIN,MICHAEL,,,NEW STREET,,,,BALLAGHADERREEN,CO ROSCOMMON FRAIN,MARGARET,,,NEW STREET,,,,BALLAGHADERREEN,CO ROSCOMMON FRAIN,JOHN,,,BANADA,EXDIR,,,BALLAGHADERREEN,CO ROSCOMMON FRAIN,JAMES,,,CLOONLATIVE,,,TRIEN,CASTLEREA,CO ROSCOMMON FRAIN,MARIE,,,CULLADINE,,,BALLAGHADERREEN,CASTLEREA,CO ROSCOMMON FRAIN,JOE,,,DERRINACARTHA,,,BALLAGHADERREEN,CASTLEREA,CO ROSCOMMON FRAIN,JAMES,,,ESKER,,,DOOCASTLE,BALLYMOTE,CO SLIGO FRAIN,DECLAN,40,,CASTLEWOOD AVENUE,,,,DUBLIN 6, FRAIN,BREEGE,8,,OAKLEY SQUARE,014965449,,,DUBLIN 6, FRAIN,MARY,86,,RANELAGH ROAD,EXDIR,,,DUBLIN 6, FRAIN,BILL,33,,CHARLESTON ROAD,,,,DUBLIN 6, FRAIN,PATRICK,102,,KIMMAGE ROAD,,,,DUBLIN 12, FRAIN,PATRICK,102,,KIMMAGE ROAD WEST,,,,DUBLIN 12, FRAIN,DECLAN,24,,INISMORE,,,,DUBLIN 12, FRAIN,HELEN,3,,ARANLEIGH PARK,014943567,,,DUBLIN 14, FRAIN,JOHN,3,,ARANLEIGH PARK,014943567,,,DUBLIN 14, FRAIN,PAUL,3,,ARANLEIGH PARK,014943567,,,DUBLIN 14, FRAIN,JAMES,40,,WILLBROOK ESTATE,EXDIR,,,DUBLIN 14, FRAIN,MARIAN,40,,WILLBROOK ESTATE,EXDIR,,,DUBLIN 14, FRAIN,JOHN,127,,TURRET ROAD,016266945,,,DUBLIN 20, FRAIN,MICHAEL,17,,THE MEADOWS,EXDIR,,,GALWAY, FRAIN,MARY,17,,THE MEADOWS,EXDIR,,,GALWAY, FRAIN,LAURENCE,21,,BUTTERFIELD,,,,LIMERICK, FRAIN,MICHAEL,3,,HILLCREST PARK,,,,LIMERICK, FRAIN,LAURENCE,21,SEVEN OAKS,OLD CORK ROAD,,,,LIMERICK, FRAIN,MICHAEL,7,,THE PARK,,,,SLIGO, Griffiths at http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_family_search_form.php gives five FRAINs in Rep of Ireland and one FREEN in Cork Liam "A bird in the bush is worth two in the cat" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa McKeown" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Freen/Frain of Ireland > Hello! > I have been trying to find out where the name Freen originated. I am > assisting a friend with her family tree and it is proving to be quite > difficult to get started. > > We know that a family of Freen lived in Raphoe, Donegal in the early 1900, > and a prisoner Frain from Kings County was transported to America in 1737, > but that is as far as we can go. Can anyone get us along the road a little > further? Thanks. > Lisa >

Hi Lisa, I find it almost incredible that I am reading this. Only last week, I agreed to help a friend from Raphoe research the name Freen. She is married to a Freen and wants to do her family tree for her father-in-law. She has already had a preliminary report done by Donegal Ancestry and we have some idea of what records are available. Freen, as I am sure you will know, is an extremely unusual name, the most likely derivation being De Freynes - a Norman name, although, of course, it is now associated with the Ulster Scots. Email me privately with some details of where you are and what you already have. I am doing the research for someone else so the details are not mine to give away freely. I will need to talk to Mrs Freen. Hey, maybe we are both working for the same person! If we can work together, I think I may be able to help. Have you seen this booklet: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/genbooklet.pdf The most important question of all is this: can you make any connection between your Freen and Raphoe? Regards, Boyd -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lisa McKeown Sent: 21 September 2008 21:24 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Freen/Frain of Ireland Hello! I have been trying to find out where the name Freen originated.  I am assisting a friend with her family tree and it is proving to be quite difficult to get started.   We know that a family of Freen lived in Raphoe, Donegal in the early 1900, and a prisoner Frain from Kings County was transported to America in 1737, but that is as far as we can go.  Can anyone get us along the road a little further? Thanks. Lisa Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Lisa and all, MacLysaght 'The Surnames of Ireland' FREEN - no entry FRAIN, FRAYNE These are alternative forms of FREENEY also found in Roscommon and north Mayo; occasionally for de FREYNE FREENEY de Freine Well known in Waterford and adjacent counties. The place called Freeneystown is in Co Kilkenny Also see the book 'More Irish Families' de FREYNE An Anglo-Norman family in Kilkenny. Freeney is a late popular variant. The name is derived from the Latin fraxinus, French frene, ash tree. Rob Doragh Liverpool UK Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 [email protected] Subject: Freen/Frain of Ireland trying to find out where the name Freen originated. family of Freen lived in Raphoe, Donegal in the early 1900, and a prisoner Frain from Kings County was transported to America in 1737, but that is as far as we can go. Lisa _________________________________________________________________ Discover Bird's Eye View now with Multimap from Live Search http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354026/direct/01/

Hello! I have been trying to find out where the name Freen originated.  I am assisting a friend with her family tree and it is proving to be quite difficult to get started.   We know that a family of Freen lived in Raphoe, Donegal in the early 1900, and a prisoner Frain from Kings County was transported to America in 1737, but that is as far as we can go.  Can anyone get us along the road a little further? Thanks. Lisa Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Hi I found this filed away in my genealogy notes - can't remember where it came from but perhaps it will help Old Irish Naming Patterns Sons 1st son was named after the father's father 2nd son was named after the mother's father 3rd son was named after the father 4th son was named after the father's eldest brother 5th son was named after the mother's eldest brother Daughters 1st daughter was named after the mother's mother 2nd daughter was named after the father's mother 3rd daughter was named after the mother 4th daughter was named after the mother's eldest sister 5th daughter was named after the father's eldest sister This convention was modified when the resulting name would mean that 3 people in one family had the same name. The superstition was that in the case of 3 having the same name, one would die. When one of the people having the name died, the name was reused on the next born child. Bobby [email protected]

Hi there, there is indeed a naming convention, and the oldest son is usually named for his grandfather and you would also expect the land to pass to the olderst son. Fortunately we do have an older son called Andrew, who died young, so it does fit the naming convention that Robert Jnr holds the land and is a son of Robert Snr. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 21 September 2008 15:30 To: [email protected] Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Jr/Sr In Irish tradition isn't there a naming pattern that would not necessarily make it father/son. (for example)First son being named after the mothers father or after the fathers father? When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks much for this. I'd never seen anything before that includes 4th and 5th sons. Now to check it out against the various families I've been studying. Loretta -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Barbara Fabricius Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 14:31 To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Jr/Sr ... Old Irish Naming Patterns Sons 1st son was named after the father's father 2nd son was named after the mother's father 3rd son was named after the father 4th son was named after the father's eldest brother 5th son was named after the mother's eldest brother Daughters 1st daughter was named after the mother's mother 2nd daughter was named after the father's mother 3rd daughter was named after the mother 4th daughter was named after the mother's eldest sister 5th daughter was named after the father's eldest sister This convention was modified when the resulting name would mean that 3 people in one family had the same name. The superstition was that in the case of 3 having the same name, one would die. When one of the people having the name died, the name was reused on the next born child. Bobby [email protected]

In Irish tradition isn't there a naming pattern that would not necessarily make it father/son. (for example)First son being named after the mothers father or after the fathers father?

WEll if you find that website I would also be interested as McNaught and McNutt may be related. love Fern digging up the past for the future > From: [email protected] > Subject: DONEGALEIRE Digest, Vol 3, Issue 214 > To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 01:00:41 -0600 > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. McNaught Family ([email protected]) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:24:27 +0100 > From: > Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] McNaught Family > To: "'IRL-Donegaleire-L'" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Folks, > > Just a quickee. Did I just imagine that someone was researching the > McNaught Family in East Donegal - and actually had a huge website on them? > > I have tried Bob's database of researchers, google and Lindel's website with > no luck. > > B > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the DONEGALEIRE list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the DONEGALEIRE mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of DONEGALEIRE Digest, Vol 3, Issue 214 > ******************************************* _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn “10 hidden secrets” from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008

Hi Folks, Just a quickee. Did I just imagine that someone was researching the McNaught Family in East Donegal - and actually had a huge website on them? I have tried Bob's database of researchers, google and Lindel's website with no luck. B

Thanks everyone for all your responses. It seems we are agreed that there is indeed a very strong likelihood of Robert Senr being the father of Robert Junr. This leaves us with a problem. We have a Robert from the same townland dying aged 86 in 1836 so it would seem logical that he was the Robert Senr. Problem is, we thought we had all his kids documented quite well - and there was no Robert! But then again, that is very unlikely - that he had five sons and didn't call one Robert. So, maybe we have found the missing Robert. -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 13 September 2008 22:36 To: [email protected]; 'IRL-Donegaleire-L' Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] TAB Senr and Junr Hello Boyd. Here is what is said about it (there are further examples given in the paper) in that wonderful paper about Griffith's on the County Roscommon site: SNIP

Hello Boyd. Here is what is said about it (there are further examples given in the paper) in that wonderful paper about Griffith's on the County Roscommon site: "Agnomen Section No. 31 of the Instructions states that when "two or more persons in a townland have the same Christian and surname, it will be necessary to obtain an agnomen (as Farmer)." Agnomen is a Latin word meaning "an additional name." When Griffith offered the word "Farmer" as his sole example of an agnomen, he afforded great latitude to the valuators in their choice of additional names to differentiate between individuals. For the genealogist, the agnomen has become one of the most useful clues for developing family relationship hypotheses. 1. "Junior - senior" appears to be the most commonly utilized agnomen. Black's Law Dictionary: Definitions of the Terms and Phrases of American and English Jurisprudence, Ancient and Modern (by Henry Campbell Black. St. Paul, MN, 4th ed., 1968) defines "'junior as a convenient distinction between a father and son of the same name." Occasionally either "junior" or "senior" is omitted (Figure 4). It is the author's contention that the singular use country-wide of "junior-senior" to distinguish between individuals, in spite of the array of other agnomens available in each geographical locality, is a strong affirmation of a "father-son" relationship. 2. The men employed by Griffith as valuators were native-born Irish familiar with the traditional naming practices. As shown in Figure 5, the Gaelic practice of using a father's name to distinguish between men with the same given name was a frequently applied agnomen The use of a father's name in this fashion should not be interpreted to indicate that the father is deceased; he may be living in the same townland or in a neighboring one. ..." Here is the URL to the paper, as posted by several kind listers previously: http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/GRIFFITH/more_to_griffiths.html HTH: ray in oz ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: "'IRL-Donegaleire-L'" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 6:01 AM Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] TAB Senr and Junr > Hi Listers, > > A wee bit of advice please. > > If I find two Robert Calhouns in the 1826 TAB in the same townland, one > designated Senr and one designated Junr, and they are listed one below the > other, can I assume they are father and son? Or at least, what are the > chances of such being the case? > > B

Hi Listers, A wee bit of advice please. If I find two Robert Calhouns in the 1826 TAB in the same townland, one designated Senr and one designated Junr, and they are listed one below the other, can I assume they are father and son? Or at least, what are the chances of such being the case? B