In this Nationality versus Citizenship question I have been waiting for anyone to bring up just one point. I have not seen all the answers, but I have a point that I have been remembering during all the time I have been trying to research my grandmother's people. Excuse me, if I do not remember this correctly or if I have misunderstood something, but I was under the impression that the term Donauschwaben was not so much the descriptive term in explaining nationality, race or point of origin. I doing the readings I have done, I was left with the impression that through the various waves of immigrants over the decades that the imperials invited these many nationalities to populate and make productive the lands of southeastern Europe, following the removal of the Ottoman Turks. My point or thought was that this term "Donauschwaben" was more the term applied to their common assembly point in the Schwaben lands of what we know today as southern Germany in the area of Ulm. If I could use the verb "to render" this process was ultimately to result in the bringing together of many separate peoples. Literally to be 'shipped down the river' on the Ulmer Schachtels, where they were to settle and revive these lands. So the process not only rendered new lands, but also rendered the people themselves in a sort a new people. I am not trying to step on any one's toes, but this is my two cents worth from my perspective from here in Arizona. Thank you anyone and everyone for reading and trying to understand my thoughts and words. I have said my peace! Be well all! John J. Kornfeind -------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniela" <danielashowley@aol.com> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:36 AM To: <joepsotka@gmail.com>; <islandkaren@bellsouth.net>; <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Fw: FW: German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > I have been here only a short time. I thoroughly enjoy all that is > discussed here. No one need to leave this wonderful DVHH group. History is > not cast in stone. Even ancient historical documents that actually were > cast in stone, were subject to the bias of those who commanded the chisel. > Our Donauschwaben history and culture is very very rich and confusing. > There will and should be many opinions and stories. We do not and cannot > always be in 100% agreement. As in any heartfelt discussion, there is > inevitable heartfelt disagreement. We must always remember, we all have a > right to our own opinion and our own interpretation of history. > > > Daniela Ivkovic Showley > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joseph Psotka <joepsotka@gmail.com> > > < Thank you islandkaren for a good fight. On the one hand it was great to > get > your detailed and supported opinions. > But on the other hand it would be better to let you express yourself > openly and > completely without constant bickering and criticism of your views. > > If there are other more open and welcoming sites where you feel more > comfortable, please let me know. I'll see you there. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "islandkaren" <islandkaren@bellsouth.net> > > >> Okee-Dokee! Ya know what, you guys win! >> Catch ya later. >> Karen. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nick Tullius" <ntullius@rogers.com> > >> Jody and Karen, >> >> To avoid further gross misrepresentation of what I am saying, I would >> really >> like to see a distinction made between the PRIVATE and the GROUP. And >> that >> preferably before any further public debate. >> To try a simplification: I never said that the DS are a group that >> is pure, 100% German. That does not even exist in Germany. Reality is, >> that >> the Danube Swabians as a group have a German nationality, i.e., they have >> a >> language with many German dialects, a way of life, a culture, a history. >> What I object to, is when I see that Karen is trying to use her own >> family history (and maybe sociology and DNA analysis) to prove that the >> DS >> were not essentially a German group. >> Looks like a grandiose undertaking, but doomed to failure because reality >> interferes. >> >> Take care, >> Nick >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message