As a Shwobe with many Serbian/Croat and Slovak and Hungarian ancestors who was interned in Gakowa for 3 years with all the other Shwovish residents of Kernei/Krnjaja/Kjaljicevo/ I greatly appreciate this well expressed affirmation of diversity in our community. Sent from Windows Mail From: Barb D Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎May‎ ‎3‎, ‎2014 ‎10‎:‎15‎ ‎AM To: islandkaren, donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.net GREAT JOB KAREN! I really enjoyed your description of Donauschwaben's. People have been entwining since the beginning of time, that’s how we all became who we are,so I agree that we should not be to surprised with the results of our DNA. I am looking forward to finding out what mine will come out. Thanks, Barb D. -----Original Message----- From: islandkaren Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 1:09 AM To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.net Subject: [DVHH] German-Hungarians To anyone on this subject line discussing the "ethnic German" issue...I just want to say, my particular responses were prompted by two posts in particular in which folks were "surprised" at their DNA results as they thought they were only "German"...ethnic or otherwise. Initially I was trying to point out that "German" is a Nationality or a Citizenship, not a Race. Also, that Donauschwaben is a descriptive term about a very specific emigrating group of people whose same experience on the Danube is now used to classify them. And now, even some others who did not necessarily have the same transportation experience, but became a part of the end result in what history calls the Banat, in some cases are also "German", but may also be from other areas of Europe than just the geographic area known as Swabia. As a result, many of us whose ancestors lived and worked and thrived in the Hungarian Hapsburg Empire for centuries after migrating from lots of places in western Europe, became "Donauschwaben". To discover through DNA analysis or historical searching or genealogy that one's family group are not all "German", either as ethnic practice or common language, should not be a surprise. Of course people who were not German came to the Banat down the Danube. Of course groups of people who may have lived in the area generally described as the Duchy of Swabia were not all from there "forever" and had most certainly arrived there from every other direction and spoke a variety of languages and dialects. Of course there is and always was intermarriage of tribes, and geographic groups, and races, and mixing of languages. "Dialects" in fact are generally considered to occur as the result of the combining of languages in a single geographic area over a time period longer than 2 generations. Actually all one has to do is read this list...there is huge discussion describing how one "German" group can't understand the other, and who spoke High German, who spoke Austrian Schwobish,! and my father spoke German but my mother's native tongue was French.......and on and on. Someone on this thread said that if your native tongue was not German and you were not from the area of Germany now known as Baden-Wurttemberg, you were Not Donauschwaben. I suppose exclusion as a means to describe and then sequester a group of people may seem appropriate from a purist sense, but it is not accurate or helpful in current context. Both my father's maternal and paternal families going back many centuries emigrated to the geographic areas that are included in Donauschwaban territories. Did they all come down the Danube from the Schwarzwald speaking some dialect of German from about 1722 in three waves of specific groups...nope. Did they all speak German and cook only certain foods in a certain way on specific holidays...nope. Did they all remain pure and "German" and never intermarry or integrate other ethnicities...nope. Are they "Donauschwaben"....Yes they are! They shared, as well as most certainly participated in the culture, politics, geography and history of the unique experience in modern history now known as Donauschwaben. I believe the disconnect between us talking about this probably also occurs because you guys seem to be describing perhaps just the most recent 75 years of historical context. My viewpoint includes a much longer context, that is, from the first waves of settlers and actually even farther back for my father's side. Both are of course relevant. And as I just described previously, both appropriately are blended, mixed, included and valued in this Donauschwaben experience, because that is in fact the reality and history of these families....just read this list. Karen. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message