Hello Fran! I do not disagree with you, however, I would like to clarify, without offending anyone. Not only don't Americans know German history, very few people "know" history. But your reference is more to Sociology than History. Most people "know" their own particular "environment" and the people in it. That's what I mean by Sociology. "History" for most is very small and very subjective. Which is also why sometimes being more particular is useful. Politics and Power are usually what people are referring to in describing events, Sociology is the day to day in an environment, and "History" is often determined years later and with no guidelines for personal experience and always determined by the individual "writer". In Academia it is the reason groups of scholars "write" what is called "History" and not generally one individual. In any case, sorry I'm so long. Americans spend a great deal of time being pompous and over-bearing based on some notion that we have the truth and the light. The reality is clear from our "history". We are just as political, just a interested in power, just as misguided on many occasions, and on the wrong side of things often. And like most cultures in history, at some point someone lights a candle in the dark and something good happens. We do not have a monopoly on the light. I would say this, despite our penchant for persecution like many other cultures, the US and Canada and Australia are probably now in history what the Hungarian Empire once was for western Europeans who wanted more peace, freedom to practice their chosen religion, some chance at wealth and prosperity, and an environment they felt they could control in order to thrive. For whatever reason they migrated East, it is pretty safe to say it wasn't because they "liked to travel". To your point specifically I would suggest from my own experience that Americans do not differentiate at all regarding the identity of other Nationalities. If you say you are French then you must be from France. If you say you are "ethnic German" all most hear is "German" and it is assumed you are from Germany. I would agree that persecution is precisely the reason that the DS "history" is such an untold story. And I agree completely that the DVHH is a gold mine of history and information. Karen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fran Matkovich" <mjm1021@comcast.net> To: "Eve" <evebrown@gmail.com> Cc: "dvhh" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish > > > It is important to realize that Americans did not and still do not know > about German history. They identified the Germans in Germany, who had to > follow Hitler's orders to kill, and the Donauschwaben in Hungary as the > same people. They did not realize that the Donauschwaben were not a part > of Hitler's regime at the time. So when a Donauschwaben came to the US, > they automatically labelled them as Nazis. Most people today do not know > their world history and know very little about World War II. My mother was > born here but was the daughter of a Banat resident. She had only a grade > school education and knew very little about her heritage. She could only > tell me that her family was German-Hungarian and that Hitler was evil, but > she couldn't explain what that meant. I went back and studied world > history to get the story. you can now find a lot of that history on > www.dvhh.org . > > > > Fran Matkovich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Eve" <evebrown@gmail.com> > To: "Joseph Psotka" <psotka@msn.com> > Cc: "dvhh" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 3:23:20 PM > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish > > I always felt that my parents didn't talk about it because it was too > complicated to understand and explain. Most people here had preconceived > notions as to what was going on and with the lack of language skills by my > parents, it was easier for them to just go with whatever was being told > them had happened to them. This probably sounds confusing, but I know many > of the people from the church I grew up in told "me" stories about what > had > gone on with my folks before coming here and I remember questioning my > parents about things that were said and they would just make this > gesture - > like - ach, forget about it, almost in disgust. I don't think my mom in > particular ever felt any shame about being German - my dad possibly since > he was more aware of what was going on outside their little village, but > mom, nah, she has been proud of who she is always. > > Eve > > > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Joseph Psotka <psotka@msn.com> wrote: > >> >> My parents also never spoke about being Shwovish to anyone outside the >> family; >> >> but a large part of that was being ashamed of being imprisoned in Gakowa >> (my mother and I) >> >> or being sent to slave labor in the Donetsk(my father). For those of us >> interned, it was a very painful and shameful part of our life and we >> never >> wanted to talk about it, and hid it whenever we could, in whatever way we >> could. >> >> >> >> >> The second generation seems to think that this experience is something we >> wanted to discuss, but I assure we did not and it is even harder to get >> started with strangers. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> Joe >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Diane Halas >> Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎April‎ ‎30‎, ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎53‎ ‎AM >> To: 'John Schambre', 'Eileen Simcox' >> Cc: dvhh >> >> >> >> >> >> I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. >> "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered >> herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher >> who >> in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in >> Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified >> their >> primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine >> and >> her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat >> before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned >> about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. >> >> Diane >> >> Diane Halas >> 239-592-9969 >> >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > -- > Syrmia Regional Coordinator > http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Karen, Me thinks that history has been a well-established science long before anybody ever heard about sociology. I agree that history is often not quite accurate, especially when the victors write it (a 20th century specialty?). But as a science, it is not always "very small and very subjective". If it does not pursue and present the truth, it is not a science and is useless. Just one example (in English) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historikerstreit I do not know what you mean by "Hungarian Empire". Was there ever such an entity? And who "wanted more peace, freedom to practice their chosen religion, some chance at wealth and prosperity", certainly not the Hungarian nobility. Those had an abundance of it all, while cruelly suppressing their own peasants and trying to assimilate the non-Magyars. I largely agree with your assessment of the knowledge of history and disrespect for nationality of many Americans. From my experience, I would certainly exclude the elite universities from this assessment. Cheers, Nick -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of islandkaren Sent: 4-May-14 13:01 To: Fran Matkovich; Eve Cc: dvhh Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish Hello Fran! I do not disagree with you, however, I would like to clarify, without offending anyone. Not only don't Americans know German history, very few people "know" history. But your reference is more to Sociology than History. Most people "know" their own particular "environment" and the people in it. That's what I mean by Sociology. "History" for most is very small and very subjective. Which is also why sometimes being more particular is useful. Politics and Power are usually what people are referring to in describing events, Sociology is the day to day in an environment, and "History" is often determined years later and with no guidelines for personal experience and always determined by the individual "writer". In Academia it is the reason groups of scholars "write" what is called "History" and not generally one individual. In any case, sorry I'm so long. Americans spend a great deal of time being pompous and over-bearing based on some notion that we have the truth and the light. The reality is clear from our "history". We are just as political, just a interested in power, just as misguided on many occasions, and on the wrong side of things often. And like most cultures in history, at some point someone lights a candle in the dark and something good happens. We do not have a monopoly on the light. I would say this, despite our penchant for persecution like many other cultures, the US and Canada and Australia are probably now in history what the Hungarian Empire once was for western Europeans who wanted more peace, freedom to practice their chosen religion, some chance at wealth and prosperity, and an environment they felt they could control in order to thrive. For whatever reason they migrated East, it is pretty safe to say it wasn't because they "liked to travel". To your point specifically I would suggest from my own experience that Americans do not differentiate at all regarding the identity of other Nationalities. If you say you are French then you must be from France. If you say you are "ethnic German" all most hear is "German" and it is assumed you are from Germany. I would agree that persecution is precisely the reason that the DS "history" is such an untold story. And I agree completely that the DVHH is a gold mine of history and information. Karen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fran Matkovich" <mjm1021@comcast.net> To: "Eve" <evebrown@gmail.com> Cc: "dvhh" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish > > > It is important to realize that Americans did not and still do not know > about German history. They identified the Germans in Germany, who had to > follow Hitler's orders to kill, and the Donauschwaben in Hungary as the > same people. They did not realize that the Donauschwaben were not a part > of Hitler's regime at the time. So when a Donauschwaben came to the US, > they automatically labelled them as Nazis. Most people today do not know > their world history and know very little about World War II. My mother was > born here but was the daughter of a Banat resident. She had only a grade > school education and knew very little about her heritage. She could only > tell me that her family was German-Hungarian and that Hitler was evil, but > she couldn't explain what that meant. I went back and studied world > history to get the story. you can now find a lot of that history on > www.dvhh.org . > > > > Fran Matkovich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Eve" <evebrown@gmail.com> > To: "Joseph Psotka" <psotka@msn.com> > Cc: "dvhh" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 3:23:20 PM > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish > > I always felt that my parents didn't talk about it because it was too > complicated to understand and explain. Most people here had preconceived > notions as to what was going on and with the lack of language skills by my > parents, it was easier for them to just go with whatever was being told > them had happened to them. This probably sounds confusing, but I know many > of the people from the church I grew up in told "me" stories about what > had > gone on with my folks before coming here and I remember questioning my > parents about things that were said and they would just make this > gesture - > like - ach, forget about it, almost in disgust. I don't think my mom in > particular ever felt any shame about being German - my dad possibly since > he was more aware of what was going on outside their little village, but > mom, nah, she has been proud of who she is always. > > Eve > > > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Joseph Psotka <psotka@msn.com> wrote: > >> >> My parents also never spoke about being Shwovish to anyone outside the >> family; >> >> but a large part of that was being ashamed of being imprisoned in Gakowa >> (my mother and I) >> >> or being sent to slave labor in the Donetsk(my father). For those of us >> interned, it was a very painful and shameful part of our life and we >> never >> wanted to talk about it, and hid it whenever we could, in whatever way we >> could. >> >> >> >> >> The second generation seems to think that this experience is something we >> wanted to discuss, but I assure we did not and it is even harder to get >> started with strangers. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> Joe >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Diane Halas >> Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎April‎ ‎30‎, ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎53‎ ‎AM >> To: 'John Schambre', 'Eileen Simcox' >> Cc: dvhh >> >> >> >> >> >> I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. >> "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered >> herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher >> who >> in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in >> Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified >> their >> primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine >> and >> her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat >> before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned >> about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. >> >> Diane >> >> Diane Halas >> 239-592-9969 >> >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > -- > Syrmia Regional Coordinator > http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message