Dear islandkaren! Seldom I post. I , as an immigrant, do not have the higher schooling to portray it so well as you in the present "ethnic German" issue. I was stamped ethnic German, labeled "ex enemy' but I'm proud to be a Schwabe and will stay a Schwabe. This DNA - perhaps you go back to the "Neandertaler." A "Affe" (Monkey) is an Affe and a Mensch is a Mensch - we are all Human ! You can go on, Search, Search, but I am proud to be Ethnic German - Schwabe - documented ! Yours truly Gary Gerhard Banzhaf ----- Original Message ----- From: "islandkaren" <islandkaren@bellsouth.net> To: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.net> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 2:09 AM Subject: [DVHH] German-Hungarians > To anyone on this subject line discussing the "ethnic German" issue...I > just want to say, my particular responses were prompted by two posts in > particular in which folks were "surprised" at their DNA results as they > thought they were only "German"...ethnic or otherwise. > > Initially I was trying to point out that "German" is a Nationality or a > Citizenship, not a Race. Also, that Donauschwaben is a descriptive term > about a very specific emigrating group of people whose same experience on > the Danube is now used to classify them. And now, even some others who did > not necessarily have the same transportation experience, but became a part > of the end result in what history calls the Banat, in some cases are also > "German", but may also be from other areas of Europe than just the > geographic area known as Swabia. As a result, many of us whose ancestors > lived and worked and thrived in the Hungarian Hapsburg Empire for > centuries after migrating from lots of places in western Europe, became > "Donauschwaben". > > To discover through DNA analysis or historical searching or genealogy that > one's family group are not all "German", either as ethnic practice or > common language, should not be a surprise. Of course people who were not > German came to the Banat down the Danube. Of course groups of people who > may have lived in the area generally described as the Duchy of Swabia were > not all from there "forever" and had most certainly arrived there from > every other direction and spoke a variety of languages and dialects. Of > course there is and always was intermarriage of tribes, and geographic > groups, and races, and mixing of languages. "Dialects" in fact are > generally considered to occur as the result of the combining of languages > in a single geographic area over a time period longer than 2 generations. > Actually all one has to do is read this list...there is huge discussion > describing how one "German" group can't understand the other, and who > spoke High German, who spoke Austrian Schwobish,! > and my father spoke German but my mother's native tongue was > French.......and on and on. > > Someone on this thread said that if your native tongue was not German and > you were not from the area of Germany now known as Baden-Wurttemberg, you > were Not Donauschwaben. I suppose exclusion as a means to describe and > then sequester a group of people may seem appropriate from a purist sense, > but it is not accurate or helpful in current context. Both my father's > maternal and paternal families going back many centuries emigrated to the > geographic areas that are included in Donauschwaban territories. Did they > all come down the Danube from the Schwarzwald speaking some dialect of > German from about 1722 in three waves of specific groups...nope. > Did they all speak German and cook only certain foods in a certain way on > specific holidays...nope. Did they all remain pure and "German" and never > intermarry or integrate other ethnicities...nope. > Are they "Donauschwaben"....Yes they are! They shared, as well as most > certainly participated in the culture, politics, geography and history of > the unique experience in modern history now known as Donauschwaben. > > I believe the disconnect between us talking about this probably also > occurs because you guys seem to be describing perhaps just the most recent > 75 years of historical context. My viewpoint includes a much longer > context, that is, from the first waves of settlers and actually even > farther back for my father's side. Both are of course relevant. And as I > just described previously, both appropriately are blended, mixed, included > and valued in this Donauschwaben experience, because that is in fact the > reality and history of these families....just read this list. > > Karen. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message