Dear Gary! And proud you most certainly should be!! I completely agree with you! Karen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Banzhaf" <gerbanz@gmail.com> To: "islandkaren" <islandkaren@bellsouth.net> Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians > > > Dear islandkaren! > > Seldom I post. I , as an immigrant, do not have the higher schooling to > portray it so well as you in the present "ethnic German" issue. I was > stamped ethnic German, labeled "ex enemy' but I'm proud to be a Schwabe > and will stay a Schwabe. This DNA - perhaps you go back to the > "Neandertaler." > A "Affe" (Monkey) is an Affe and a Mensch is a Mensch - we are all Human ! > You can go on, Search, Search, but I am proud to be Ethnic German - > Schwabe - documented ! > > Yours truly > Gary Gerhard Banzhaf > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "islandkaren" <islandkaren@bellsouth.net> > To: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.net> > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 2:09 AM > Subject: [DVHH] German-Hungarians > > >> To anyone on this subject line discussing the "ethnic German" issue...I >> just want to say, my particular responses were prompted by two posts in >> particular in which folks were "surprised" at their DNA results as they >> thought they were only "German"...ethnic or otherwise. >> >> Initially I was trying to point out that "German" is a Nationality or a >> Citizenship, not a Race. Also, that Donauschwaben is a descriptive term >> about a very specific emigrating group of people whose same experience on >> the Danube is now used to classify them. And now, even some others who >> did not necessarily have the same transportation experience, but became a >> part of the end result in what history calls the Banat, in some cases are >> also "German", but may also be from other areas of Europe than just the >> geographic area known as Swabia. As a result, many of us whose ancestors >> lived and worked and thrived in the Hungarian Hapsburg Empire for >> centuries after migrating from lots of places in western Europe, became >> "Donauschwaben". >> >> To discover through DNA analysis or historical searching or genealogy >> that one's family group are not all "German", either as ethnic practice >> or common language, should not be a surprise. Of course people who were >> not German came to the Banat down the Danube. Of course groups of people >> who may have lived in the area generally described as the Duchy of Swabia >> were not all from there "forever" and had most certainly arrived there >> from every other direction and spoke a variety of languages and dialects. >> Of course there is and always was intermarriage of tribes, and geographic >> groups, and races, and mixing of languages. "Dialects" in fact are >> generally considered to occur as the result of the combining of languages >> in a single geographic area over a time period longer than 2 generations. >> Actually all one has to do is read this list...there is huge discussion >> describing how one "German" group can't understand the other, and who >> spoke High German, who spoke Austrian Schwobish,! >> and my father spoke German but my mother's native tongue was >> French.......and on and on. >> >> Someone on this thread said that if your native tongue was not German and >> you were not from the area of Germany now known as Baden-Wurttemberg, you >> were Not Donauschwaben. I suppose exclusion as a means to describe and >> then sequester a group of people may seem appropriate from a purist >> sense, but it is not accurate or helpful in current context. Both my >> father's maternal and paternal families going back many centuries >> emigrated to the geographic areas that are included in Donauschwaban >> territories. Did they all come down the Danube from the Schwarzwald >> speaking some dialect of German from about 1722 in three waves of >> specific groups...nope. >> Did they all speak German and cook only certain foods in a certain way on >> specific holidays...nope. Did they all remain pure and "German" and >> never intermarry or integrate other ethnicities...nope. >> Are they "Donauschwaben"....Yes they are! They shared, as well as most >> certainly participated in the culture, politics, geography and history of >> the unique experience in modern history now known as Donauschwaben. >> >> I believe the disconnect between us talking about this probably also >> occurs because you guys seem to be describing perhaps just the most >> recent 75 years of historical context. My viewpoint includes a much >> longer context, that is, from the first waves of settlers and actually >> even farther back for my father's side. Both are of course relevant. >> And as I just described previously, both appropriately are blended, >> mixed, included and valued in this Donauschwaben experience, because that >> is in fact the reality and history of these families....just read this >> list. >> >> Karen. >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >