Hi Rita, I fully agree with what you are saying. My oversight that I did not consider special cases, such as the Military Frontier. The Austro-Hungarian Empire comprised many nationalities and most people never carried a passport, not even those travelling to America. But people respected the fact that they had a nationality, and they generally got along with each other. As you say, those with interethnic marriages (or their children) had a choice. Some obviously had chosen the German one, which at the the time was the nationality of the majority in many parts of the Empire. Your conclusion that "They said that they are German. They spoke German and had German customs" is significant to the discussion about the nationality of the Danube Swabians. Best regards, Nick Tullius -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rita Schiwanowitsch Sent: 4-May-14 11:00 To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] FW: German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship Hello Nick... I agree with most of what you say except for one small part. I feel that there needs to be made a distinction between the settlements in mainland Banat and the settlements along the Military Frontier (southern Banat along the border of the then Ottoman Empire). In the villages in this large swath of land, there were many nationalities. Some were from Germany. But, there was also a fair amount of Hungarians, Croatians, Romanians, Czechs, Serbians, and even a few Italians. These are people that wanted to take advantage of the perks (free land, etc...) that came with military service. The area I am specifically referring to is from Belgrade eastward along the Danube River. In the various villages my ancestors are from in that region, there was a good bit of inter-ethnic marriage. In that early time, they were still dealing with the occasional incursions of the Turks. The borders at that time also occasionally fluctuated. So, in addition to the usual causes of death in early Banat (malaria, typhus....), you had to add causalities of war to the mix. This limited the amount of same-ethnic group spouses available, so inter ethnic marriages were common in that part of Banat. Many had numerous spouses (not at the same time, of course). I know this differs greatly from inland Banat, where cities were ethnically segregated by design. And, stayed that way. I have reseached my family tree and many others in that region. The Donauschwaben from there will definitely say that they are German. They spoke German and had German customs. But, there broad heritage is much more "colorful". RitaColorado and Jabuka > From: ntullius@rogers.com > To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 09:34:06 -0400 > Subject: [DVHH] FW: German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > Hello Karen! > > > > You have not bored me and it is certainly not my intention to > discourage you or anybody else from participating in the discussion or > to have their own private opinion about nationality and citizenship. > > It just looks to me like your "sociologic perspective"(and DNA > analysis?) leads you to a radical reclassification of the Danube > Swabian identity. You can obviously produce a dissertation on the > subject but "cui bono?" as the Latins used to say. > > But first to our points of disagreement. Yes, the DS were also called > Germans (germani, nemţi, németek, nemci) by their neighbouring > nationalities, and they frequently used that term for their own > self-description. That has indeed been my personal experience, based > on 25 years of living in a German Banat village (96 percent German > population) and in multiethnic Temeswar/Timişoara. I remain in contact > with a number of Banat Swabians currently living in Germany and > Austria and I have read a fair number of Banat-Swabian literature, > from history to poetry and prose, research papers and newspapers. I > can assure that the group identity of the Donauschwaben as an ethnic > German group is very well established and rests on a solid foundation, developed over their 250-year history. > > In my 53 years in Canada, I have yet to meet a single DS immigrant who > was not aware of his nationality, or did not consider himself both a > Swabian and an (ethnic) German. I do not have the statistics about the > number or proportion of mixed marriages in the old country, but my > experience in a few Banat villages indicates that until the end of WWII there were very few. > > The objective of DVHH is Remembering Our Danube Swabian Ancestors. It > seems clear to me that our ancestors would not want to be remembered > as something other than Germans, and certainly not as some amorphous multiethnic entity. > > Finally, given that the vast majority of our DS compatriots are now > living in Germany and Austria, would it not be just a bit presumptuous > for any one of us "North American DS" to redefine their nationality? > > > > Cheers, > > Nick Tullius > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message