I’m afraid that you missed the point of my email response. The term the Banat is used extensively on the DVHH to designate one of the major settlement areas of our Danube Swabian forebears as a whole and our members and readers view it as such in general discourse. When referring specifically to either portion of the Banat after its partition in 1919 we identify it as either the Yugoslavian or Romanian Banat to clarify the area being discussed in order to avoid any confusion on the part of the reader. I hope that clarifies the matter. Henry Fischer From: joepsotka@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:38 AM To: Henry Fischer Cc: dvhh Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship Still, Laszlo was correct. The only Banat in existence in 1941 - 1944 was the autonomous administrative area of Rump Serbia headed by Nedic, but in fact controlled by the Nazi German military. Under the Nazi administration the local Shwovish cultural association, headed by Josef (Sepp) Janko, had many high government positions and was a privileged minority. During the period 1941 - 1944 Hitler was still undecided about whether to include this area of the Vojvodina with the Batschka and Baranja in the area controlled by Hungary (who continued to press for control of the Banat) and this created a great deal of tension between the Hungarians and Shwoveh in this area. The new quisling state of Serbia, including the Banat in 1941 under the provisional government of the General Milan Nedic , who took over the leadership on August 29, 1941, remained in the role of a satellite state of the Axis powers . The Shwoveh belonging to the Banat area of this Serbia were under the guidance of community leader Sepp Janko and formed an autonomous " ethnic group“. Along with the scattered Shwovish settlements of Serbia they were put under the patronage and protection of the German Military Administration. For instance, the reprisal killings of Serbs during the Winter of 1941 to 1942 where 100 Serbs (initially mainly Jewish Serbs) were killed as a punishment for the death of any German Soldier applied equally to the death of any Shwobe. From the summer of 1941 on, the Shwoveh outside of the Batschka and Baranja in the former Vojvodina were administrators of many German directives. Sepp Janko (1943) writes: " The fate of the ethnic group as well as the fate of our Homeland will be decided neither by the responsible parties in Belgrade nor by us. It will be decided finally and irrevocably only by the one man whom we have confidently given our trust, and whose orders we have sworn our lifelong fidelity and whose commands we will carry out completely even if they demand self-sacrifice : Adolf Hitler. " (Dr. Sepp Janko, 1944, „Reden und Aufsaetze“, p. 72. In my collection.) Sent from Windows Mail From: Henry Fischer Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎30‎ ‎PM To: László Békési, dvhh The Banat that Laszlo is referring to is the western Banat which was part of Yugoslavia and not the eastern part which was ceded to Romania after the First World War. We need to be specific in the use of our terms to avoid confusion on the part of others not as well versed in these matters. Henry Fischer -----Original Message----- From: László Békési Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 AM To: donauschwaben-villages Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship Only one remark to Fran's comment: there was no Hungarian rule in the Banat in 1941-1944. It remained under German military government after the campaign in 1941, Hungary received Batschka, Baranya and some smaller territories along the river Mur. Best regards Laszlo

Thank you, Henry, for clarifying the complex issue of the two Banats for the benefit of all of us! Rose On 15 May 2014 16:14, Henry Fischer <hjfischer@rogers.com> wrote: > I’m afraid that you missed the point of my email response. The term the > Banat is used extensively on the DVHH to designate one of the major > settlement areas of our Danube Swabian forebears as a whole and our members > and readers view it as such in general discourse. When referring > specifically to either portion of the Banat after its partition in 1919 we > identify it as either the Yugoslavian or Romanian Banat to clarify the area > being discussed in order to avoid any confusion on the part of the reader. > I hope that clarifies the matter. > > Henry Fischer > > From: joepsotka@gmail.com > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:38 AM > To: Henry Fischer > Cc: dvhh > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > Still, Laszlo was correct. The only Banat in existence in 1941 - 1944 was > the autonomous administrative area of Rump Serbia headed by Nedic, but in > fact controlled by the Nazi German military. Under the Nazi administration > the local Shwovish cultural association, headed by Josef (Sepp) Janko, had > many high government positions and was a privileged minority. During the > period 1941 - 1944 Hitler was still undecided about whether to include this > area of the Vojvodina with the Batschka and Baranja in the area controlled > by Hungary (who continued to press for control of the Banat) and this > created a great deal of tension between the Hungarians and Shwoveh in this > area. > > The new quisling state of Serbia, including the Banat in 1941 under the > provisional government of the > General Milan Nedic , who took over the leadership on August 29, 1941, > remained in the role of a satellite state of the Axis powers . > > The Shwoveh belonging to the Banat area of this Serbia were under the > guidance of community leader Sepp Janko and formed an autonomous " ethnic > group“. Along with the scattered Shwovish settlements of Serbia they were > put under the patronage and protection of the German Military > Administration. For instance, the reprisal killings of Serbs during the > Winter of 1941 to 1942 where 100 Serbs (initially mainly Jewish Serbs) were > killed as a punishment for the death of any German Soldier applied equally > to the death of any Shwobe. From the summer of 1941 on, the Shwoveh > outside of the Batschka and Baranja in the former Vojvodina were > administrators of many German directives. Sepp Janko (1943) > > writes: > > " The fate of the ethnic group as well as the fate of our Homeland > > will be decided neither by the responsible parties > > in Belgrade nor by us. It will be decided finally and irrevocably > > only by the one man whom we have confidently given our trust, and whose > orders > > we have sworn our lifelong fidelity and whose commands we > > will carry out completely even if they demand self-sacrifice : Adolf > Hitler. " (Dr. Sepp Janko, 1944, „Reden und Aufsaetze“, p. 72. In my > collection.) > > > > > Sent from Windows Mail > > From: Henry Fischer > Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎30‎ ‎PM > To: László Békési, dvhh > > The Banat that Laszlo is referring to is the western Banat which was part > of > Yugoslavia and not the eastern part which was ceded to Romania after the > First World War. We need to be specific in the use of our terms to avoid > confusion on the part of others not as well versed in these matters. > > Henry Fischer > > -----Original Message----- > From: László Békési > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 AM > To: donauschwaben-villages > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > Only one remark to Fran's comment: there was no Hungarian rule in the Banat > in 1941-1944. It remained under German military government after the > campaign in 1941, Hungary received Batschka, Baranya and some smaller > territories along the river Mur. > Best regards > Laszlo > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Yes, Henry, very well done! Eve On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Rose Vetter <rosevetter@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you, Henry, for clarifying the complex issue of the two Banats for > the benefit of all of us! > > Rose > > > On 15 May 2014 16:14, Henry Fischer <hjfischer@rogers.com> wrote: > > > I’m afraid that you missed the point of my email response. The term the > > Banat is used extensively on the DVHH to designate one of the major > > settlement areas of our Danube Swabian forebears as a whole and our > members > > and readers view it as such in general discourse. When referring > > specifically to either portion of the Banat after its partition in 1919 > we > > identify it as either the Yugoslavian or Romanian Banat to clarify the > area > > being discussed in order to avoid any confusion on the part of the > reader. > > I hope that clarifies the matter. > > > > Henry Fischer > > > > From: joepsotka@gmail.com > > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:38 AM > > To: Henry Fischer > > Cc: dvhh > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > > > Still, Laszlo was correct. The only Banat in existence in 1941 - 1944 > was > > the autonomous administrative area of Rump Serbia headed by Nedic, but in > > fact controlled by the Nazi German military. Under the Nazi > administration > > the local Shwovish cultural association, headed by Josef (Sepp) Janko, > had > > many high government positions and was a privileged minority. During the > > period 1941 - 1944 Hitler was still undecided about whether to include > this > > area of the Vojvodina with the Batschka and Baranja in the area > controlled > > by Hungary (who continued to press for control of the Banat) and this > > created a great deal of tension between the Hungarians and Shwoveh in > this > > area. > > > > The new quisling state of Serbia, including the Banat in 1941 under the > > provisional government of the > > General Milan Nedic , who took over the leadership on August 29, 1941, > > remained in the role of a satellite state of the Axis powers . > > > > The Shwoveh belonging to the Banat area of this Serbia were under the > > guidance of community leader Sepp Janko and formed an autonomous " ethnic > > group“. Along with the scattered Shwovish settlements of Serbia they > were > > put under the patronage and protection of the German Military > > Administration. For instance, the reprisal killings of Serbs during the > > Winter of 1941 to 1942 where 100 Serbs (initially mainly Jewish Serbs) > were > > killed as a punishment for the death of any German Soldier applied > equally > > to the death of any Shwobe. From the summer of 1941 on, the Shwoveh > > outside of the Batschka and Baranja in the former Vojvodina were > > administrators of many German directives. Sepp Janko (1943) > > > > writes: > > > > " The fate of the ethnic group as well as the fate of our Homeland > > > > will be decided neither by the responsible parties > > > > in Belgrade nor by us. It will be decided finally and irrevocably > > > > only by the one man whom we have confidently given our trust, and whose > > orders > > > > we have sworn our lifelong fidelity and whose commands we > > > > will carry out completely even if they demand self-sacrifice : Adolf > > Hitler. " (Dr. Sepp Janko, 1944, „Reden und Aufsaetze“, p. 72. In my > > collection.) > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Windows Mail > > > > From: Henry Fischer > > Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎30‎ ‎PM > > To: László Békési, dvhh > > > > The Banat that Laszlo is referring to is the western Banat which was part > > of > > Yugoslavia and not the eastern part which was ceded to Romania after the > > First World War. We need to be specific in the use of our terms to avoid > > confusion on the part of others not as well versed in these matters. > > > > Henry Fischer > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: László Békési > > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 AM > > To: donauschwaben-villages > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > > > Only one remark to Fran's comment: there was no Hungarian rule in the > Banat > > in 1941-1944. It remained under German military government after the > > campaign in 1941, Hungary received Batschka, Baranya and some smaller > > territories along the river Mur. > > Best regards > > Laszlo > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Syrmia Regional Coordinator http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia

Thank you Henry. Jody -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Henry Fischer Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:14 PM To: joepsotka@gmail.com Cc: dvhh Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship I’m afraid that you missed the point of my email response. The term the Banat is used extensively on the DVHH to designate one of the major settlement areas of our Danube Swabian forebears as a whole and our members and readers view it as such in general discourse. When referring specifically to either portion of the Banat after its partition in 1919 we identify it as either the Yugoslavian or Romanian Banat to clarify the area being discussed in order to avoid any confusion on the part of the reader. I hope that clarifies the matter. Henry Fischer From: joepsotka@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:38 AM To: Henry Fischer Cc: dvhh Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship Still, Laszlo was correct. The only Banat in existence in 1941 - 1944 was the autonomous administrative area of Rump Serbia headed by Nedic, but in fact controlled by the Nazi German military. Under the Nazi administration the local Shwovish cultural association, headed by Josef (Sepp) Janko, had many high government positions and was a privileged minority. During the period 1941 - 1944 Hitler was still undecided about whether to include this area of the Vojvodina with the Batschka and Baranja in the area controlled by Hungary (who continued to press for control of the Banat) and this created a great deal of tension between the Hungarians and Shwoveh in this area. The new quisling state of Serbia, including the Banat in 1941 under the provisional government of the General Milan Nedic , who took over the leadership on August 29, 1941, remained in the role of a satellite state of the Axis powers . The Shwoveh belonging to the Banat area of this Serbia were under the guidance of community leader Sepp Janko and formed an autonomous " ethnic group“. Along with the scattered Shwovish settlements of Serbia they were put under the patronage and protection of the German Military Administration. For instance, the reprisal killings of Serbs during the Winter of 1941 to 1942 where 100 Serbs (initially mainly Jewish Serbs) were killed as a punishment for the death of any German Soldier applied equally to the death of any Shwobe. From the summer of 1941 on, the Shwoveh outside of the Batschka and Baranja in the former Vojvodina were administrators of many German directives. Sepp Janko (1943) writes: " The fate of the ethnic group as well as the fate of our Homeland will be decided neither by the responsible parties in Belgrade nor by us. It will be decided finally and irrevocably only by the one man whom we have confidently given our trust, and whose orders we have sworn our lifelong fidelity and whose commands we will carry out completely even if they demand self-sacrifice : Adolf Hitler. " (Dr. Sepp Janko, 1944, „Reden und Aufsaetze“, p. 72. In my collection.) Sent from Windows Mail From: Henry Fischer Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎30‎ ‎PM To: László Békési, dvhh The Banat that Laszlo is referring to is the western Banat which was part of Yugoslavia and not the eastern part which was ceded to Romania after the First World War. We need to be specific in the use of our terms to avoid confusion on the part of others not as well versed in these matters. Henry Fischer -----Original Message----- From: László Békési Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 AM To: donauschwaben-villages Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship Only one remark to Fran's comment: there was no Hungarian rule in the Banat in 1941-1944. It remained under German military government after the campaign in 1941, Hungary received Batschka, Baranya and some smaller territories along the river Mur. Best regards Laszlo ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Henry, Excellent clarification! Tony > From: hjfischer@rogers.com > To: joepsotka@gmail.com > Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:14:06 -0400 > CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > I’m afraid that you missed the point of my email response. The term the Banat is used extensively on the DVHH to designate one of the major settlement areas of our Danube Swabian forebears as a whole and our members and readers view it as such in general discourse. When referring specifically to either portion of the Banat after its partition in 1919 we identify it as either the Yugoslavian or Romanian Banat to clarify the area being discussed in order to avoid any confusion on the part of the reader. I hope that clarifies the matter. > > Henry Fischer > > From: joepsotka@gmail.com > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:38 AM > To: Henry Fischer > Cc: dvhh > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > Still, Laszlo was correct. The only Banat in existence in 1941 - 1944 was the autonomous administrative area of Rump Serbia headed by Nedic, but in fact controlled by the Nazi German military. Under the Nazi administration the local Shwovish cultural association, headed by Josef (Sepp) Janko, had many high government positions and was a privileged minority. During the period 1941 - 1944 Hitler was still undecided about whether to include this area of the Vojvodina with the Batschka and Baranja in the area controlled by Hungary (who continued to press for control of the Banat) and this created a great deal of tension between the Hungarians and Shwoveh in this area. > > The new quisling state of Serbia, including the Banat in 1941 under the provisional government of the > General Milan Nedic , who took over the leadership on August 29, 1941, remained in the role of a satellite state of the Axis powers . > > The Shwoveh belonging to the Banat area of this Serbia were under the guidance of community leader Sepp Janko and formed an autonomous " ethnic group“. Along with the scattered Shwovish settlements of Serbia they were put under the patronage and protection of the German Military Administration. For instance, the reprisal killings of Serbs during the Winter of 1941 to 1942 where 100 Serbs (initially mainly Jewish Serbs) were killed as a punishment for the death of any German Soldier applied equally to the death of any Shwobe. From the summer of 1941 on, the Shwoveh outside of the Batschka and Baranja in the former Vojvodina were administrators of many German directives. Sepp Janko (1943) > > writes: > > " The fate of the ethnic group as well as the fate of our Homeland > > will be decided neither by the responsible parties > > in Belgrade nor by us. It will be decided finally and irrevocably > > only by the one man whom we have confidently given our trust, and whose orders > > we have sworn our lifelong fidelity and whose commands we > > will carry out completely even if they demand self-sacrifice : Adolf Hitler. " (Dr. Sepp Janko, 1944, „Reden und Aufsaetze“, p. 72. In my collection.) > > > > > Sent from Windows Mail > > From: Henry Fischer > Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎30‎ ‎PM > To: László Békési, dvhh > > The Banat that Laszlo is referring to is the western Banat which was part of > Yugoslavia and not the eastern part which was ceded to Romania after the > First World War. We need to be specific in the use of our terms to avoid > confusion on the part of others not as well versed in these matters. > > Henry Fischer > > -----Original Message----- > From: László Békési > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 AM > To: donauschwaben-villages > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > Only one remark to Fran's comment: there was no Hungarian rule in the Banat > in 1941-1944. It remained under German military government after the > campaign in 1941, Hungary received Batschka, Baranya and some smaller > territories along the river Mur. > Best regards > Laszlo > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message