Hi Daniel, Thank you for your informative response. I'm somewhat embarrassed that I forgot so much of my European history regarding Austria-Hungary. Of course... Germany did not exist as a state before 1871! I just now reviewed an old atlas from that period. It was an important step forward in understanding the historical background of both Austria-Hungary and the Banat region. Your response also lead to my reviewing the details of the 1919 Treaty of Versailles, resulting in Germany ceding many territories, including Alsace and Lorraine, which they had annexed in 1871, after the Franco-Prussian War. It sounds like you know your history very well, but I definitely needed to go back and review it all. Your gentle nudge in the right direction has pushed me forward to a better understanding of the historical facts and boundaries, which are obviously very important in genealogy. Merci beaucoup! Linda On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Daniel HILAIRE <danielhilaire@hotmail.com>wrote: > John, > > Most of people coming from Alsace-Lorraine (in fact, Lorraine), didn't > speak german when they arrived in Banat; they were speaking only french and > same for their children; but, as the local administration, the army, > sometimes the boys or the girls they married, were speaking german, they > had to speak german and finally they lost their french language; so, > 120-130 years after, when they arrived to US, they were speaking only > german until... 120 years after, their descendants speak english and very > few are able to speak german! > Another point : Lorraine was not a part of France until 1766 > Last point : Germany, as a state, didn't exist before 1871; to obtain > this, Bismark had to fight against Austria in 1866 (and again the french in > 1870). So, there was no "german from Austria-Hungary". > > But, as another member of the group explained very well a couple of days > ago, it's too difficult for a Banater Schwaben to explain who he is really; > so, let's people from Lorraine, speaking french, become... German from > Austria. > > Hope you'll pardon me for these points. > > Bonne journée > > Daniel Hilaire, Bordeaux > > > > > > From: jfschambre@comcast.net > > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:53:15 -0700 > > To: ljaspersen@gmail.com > > CC: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe > > > > Linda: It is possible your family came from Alsace-Lorraine France where > so many German speaking people lived and migrated to the Banat. I thought > my family came from Germany too because, like yours, they always said they > were German from Austria-Hungary. Well, they were German and, once they > moved to the Banat, they were Austro-Hungarians but before that, probably > back in the late 1600's or throughout the 1700 and 1800's they may have > lived in France. It was quite a revelation to me. > > > > Interestingly, my family had relatives in Buffalo and Tonawanda too! > Their family names were Bishop and Stetzer and, unfortunately I haven't > been able to find out much about them. I remember them visiting us in > Mansfield, Ohio (my home town) but we never went to New York to see them. > So many mysteries to uncover! > > > > Best of luck in your research! > > > > John F. Schambre > > San Francisco, CA > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 24, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Linda Jaspersen <ljaspersen@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Rose - Thank you for starting this very informative thread! The > heritage > > > postings have been fascinating! I have enjoyed reading them all - > trying to > > > catch up after the busy Easter holiday. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jody and other DVHH listees - I can relate to the many comments about > > > little information offered by our Donauschwab ancestors. Perhaps they > were > > > too busy struggling to support their families, learn English, and > adapt to > > > a radically new life in their adopted country. And in my case... I also > > > regret not asking the questions that might have triggered more sharing > of > > > oral history before my grandparents died. > > > > > > > > > > > > Brief background for those interested: My maternal grandparents were > born > > > in Glogowatz, as were their parents and grandparents, etc., to the > 1700’s, > > > according to Erwin Kilzheimer’s wonderful Familienbuch. My GF > immigrant to > > > Buffalo, New York, as a teenager in 1909, age 13; his widowed mother > (my GGM) > > > immigrated in 1907, age 33. My GM immigrated to Tonawanda, New York, in > > > 1914, age 12 years; her father had previously immigrated in 1906 & > 1910, > > > and returned to Glogowatz for the last time in 1914 to accompany his > wife > > > and 4 remaining children. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is still an active Hungarian Club in Buffalo, but no > > > Donauschwabclub. My mother states that her parents and older sister > > > went to the German > > > club but that it closed during WWII and never reopened. There was > distrust > > > and fear at the time; many of the neighbors’ sons were soldiers > fighting > > > overseas. > > > > > > > > > > > > When my immigrant grandparents talked about “the old country” as they > > > called it, they always spoke of themselves as Germans from > Austria-Hungary, > > > never mentioning either the Banat or Donauschwaben. One of my huge > brick > > > walls is trying to learn where in Germany my ancestors emigrated from > in > > > the 1700’s. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find them in the > > > Stadervolumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > All these postings and the information provided on the DVHH site have > been > > > a wonderful gift of discovery! There is always something new to learn, > > > particularly from listers with family memories of what life was like > in the > > > Banat for both the people who stayed and those who emigrated. > > > > > > > > > Thank You All, > > > > > > > > > Linda > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Jody McKim Pharr > <jodymckimpharr@comcast > > > .net> wrote: > > > > > >> Tina, -- First or second marriage, you're still the daughter of a > Schwowe. > > >> Barb, -- My family who immigrated to the US lived like they were in > the > > >> witness protection program. They would barely talk about anything. > Papa > > >> would tell his kids (my grandmother and siblings) to speak English > "You are > > >> in America now!". It wasn't until 1999 when I started my family > research > > >> quest. It wasn’t easy figuring out all the answers to my questions > after > > >> those who had the answers had passed away. Because of our wonderful > and > > >> knowledgeable DVHH volunteers, it all fell in place. > > >> > > >> This list and DVHH volunteers love genealogical digs, so if you have > brick > > >> walls, post it onto the mail list. > > >> Note: If anyone helps you privately from the list, pass it back to the > > >> entire mail list, it's the only way others who wish to help can know > where > > >> you are at in your search. > > >> > > >> Thanks for sharing, > > >> > > >> Jody McKim Pharr > > >> Woodstock, GA - USA > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > > >> donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tina Michel > > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 3:11 PM > > >> To: Barb D; DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com > > >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe > > >> > > >> I have the same feeling as you Barb. Although my father kept on > telling > > >> us about the good eating and all the things that were done in and > around > > >> his village, I took everything for granted instead of asking why and > how. > > >> Also, we spoke several german dialects at home, but I never asked my > > >> father why he would speak schwowisch and not better Hochdeutsch > (Academic > > >> German). > > >> > > >> I was the youngest child of his second marriage, but I'm the only one > with > > >> a sense of belonging to his community and his past, and sure enough > with a > > >> need to dig and find out more. > > >> > > >> With kind regards, > > >> > > >> Tina Michel, > > >> Montreal > > >> > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Barb D" <bbd2424@gmail.com> > > >> To: "SusanM" <soozn_6@yahoo.com>; < > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 2:24 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe > > >> > > >> > > >>> I agree!!!! This has been fun and very informative. I hope it keeps > up. I > > >>> am > > >>> getting the feel for how my grandparents and families lived and > died. So > > >>> many question to go and I will probably never have the answers to > most. I > > >>> am > > >>> not even sure how to know if we are Donauschwaben or not. > > >>> I wish I had some stories to tell but it was my grandparents who > lived in > > >>> DSM. and they didn't talk a lot about the old country even to their > kids > > >>> (sometimes with their old country friends) or maybe we weren't paying > > >>> enough attention to remember. All I can tell you is I wish I had had > the > > >>> foresight to ask or listen better. > > >>> So keep the info coming please! If there is anything I can do to > help let > > >>> me > > >>> know. I live in a suburb of Chicago, Il. > > >>> Thanks so much for all info and help! > > >>> Barb D. > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: SusanM > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 11:36 AM > > >>> To: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com > > >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe > > >>> > > >>> I just wanted to say how much I have appreciated this discussion. It > has > > >>> been so interesting, and now I want to go back and hunt the > archives. I'm > > >>> not sure what search terms to use though. Anyway, I wanted to say > thanks > > >>> to > > >>> people who have written on this thread. I'm fascinated. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Susan M > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Germany became a "Nation State" only in 1871, but "Germania" existed in the Roman times (see what Roman writer Tacitus had to say about it and its inhabitants: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/tacitus1.html Later, in the Middle Ages, the Holy Roman Empire came about when Frankish king Charlemagne (German: Karl der Große) was crowned emperor, in the year 800. It was a multi-ethnic complex of territories in central Europe, its core and largest territory being the Kingdom of Germany. In 1512 (Diet of Cologne), the name was officially changed to a designation first used in a document in 1474: "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation" (German: Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation, Latin: Imperium Romanum Sacrum Nationis Germanicæ). This empire lasted until 1806 and is known in German historiography as the First German Empire (Erstes Deutsches Reich). For more details see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire The main colonization of the Banat took place in the period of 1722 to 1787. During that time (actually until 1806 - see above) the Habsburgs were emperors of the Holy Roman Empire described above. It is true that the Habsburgs ruled over a composite state comprising territories within and outside the Holy Roman Empire, united only in the person of the monarch, with the dynastic capital Vienna (except from 1583 to 1611, when it was Prague). From 1804 to 1867 the Habsburg Monarchy was formally unified as the Austrian Empire. From 1867 to 1918 it was the Austro-Hungarian Empire. This little summary of history may explain the reason that the majority of colonists to the Banat did not come from the "Austrian" territories, but from the north-west of Germany. Some did come from Alsace (Elsass), others from Lorraine (Lothringen); some spoke German, others French. And some came from other Habsburg possessions and spoke Bosnian, Croatian, Czech, Hungarian, Italian, Polish, Romanian, Serbian, Slovak, Slovene, Ukrainian, or Yiddish. It is a complicated history, but I hope this summary helps just a little bit. Nick Tullius -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Linda Jaspersen Sent: 27-Apr-14 08:52 To: Daniel HILAIRE Cc: DVHH Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe Hi Daniel, Thank you for your informative response. I'm somewhat embarrassed that I forgot so much of my European history regarding Austria-Hungary. Of course... Germany did not exist as a state before 1871! I just now reviewed an old atlas from that period. It was an important step forward in understanding the historical background of both Austria-Hungary and the Banat region. Your response also lead to my reviewing the details of the 1919 Treaty of Versailles, resulting in Germany ceding many territories, including Alsace and Lorraine, which they had annexed in 1871, after the Franco-Prussian War. It sounds like you know your history very well, but I definitely needed to go back and review it all. Your gentle nudge in the right direction has pushed me forward to a better understanding of the historical facts and boundaries, which are obviously very important in genealogy. Merci beaucoup! Linda On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Daniel HILAIRE <danielhilaire@hotmail.com>wrote: > John, > > Most of people coming from Alsace-Lorraine (in fact, Lorraine), didn't > speak german when they arrived in Banat; they were speaking only > french and same for their children; but, as the local administration, > the army, sometimes the boys or the girls they married, were speaking > german, they had to speak german and finally they lost their french > language; so, > 120-130 years after, when they arrived to US, they were speaking only > german until... 120 years after, their descendants speak english and > very few are able to speak german! > Another point : Lorraine was not a part of France until 1766 Last > point : Germany, as a state, didn't exist before 1871; to obtain this, > Bismark had to fight against Austria in 1866 (and again the french in > 1870). So, there was no "german from Austria-Hungary". > > But, as another member of the group explained very well a couple of > days ago, it's too difficult for a Banater Schwaben to explain who he > is really; so, let's people from Lorraine, speaking french, become... > German from Austria. > > Hope you'll pardon me for these points. > > Bonne journée > > Daniel Hilaire, Bordeaux > > > > > > From: jfschambre@comcast.net > > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:53:15 -0700 > > To: ljaspersen@gmail.com > > CC: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe > > > > Linda: It is possible your family came from Alsace-Lorraine France > > where > so many German speaking people lived and migrated to the Banat. I > thought my family came from Germany too because, like yours, they > always said they were German from Austria-Hungary. Well, they were > German and, once they moved to the Banat, they were Austro-Hungarians > but before that, probably back in the late 1600's or throughout the > 1700 and 1800's they may have lived in France. It was quite a revelation to me. > > > > Interestingly, my family had relatives in Buffalo and Tonawanda too! > Their family names were Bishop and Stetzer and, unfortunately I > haven't been able to find out much about them. I remember them > visiting us in Mansfield, Ohio (my home town) but we never went to New York to see them. > So many mysteries to uncover! > > > > Best of luck in your research! > > > > John F. Schambre > > San Francisco, CA > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 24, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Linda Jaspersen <ljaspersen@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Rose - Thank you for starting this very informative thread! The > heritage > > > postings have been fascinating! I have enjoyed reading them all - > trying to > > > catch up after the busy Easter holiday. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jody and other DVHH listees - I can relate to the many comments > > > about little information offered by our Donauschwab ancestors. > > > Perhaps they > were > > > too busy struggling to support their families, learn English, and > adapt to > > > a radically new life in their adopted country. And in my case... I > > > also regret not asking the questions that might have triggered > > > more sharing > of > > > oral history before my grandparents died. > > > > > > > > > > > > Brief background for those interested: My maternal grandparents > > > were > born > > > in Glogowatz, as were their parents and grandparents, etc., to the > 1700’s, > > > according to Erwin Kilzheimer’s wonderful Familienbuch. My GF > immigrant to > > > Buffalo, New York, as a teenager in 1909, age 13; his widowed > > > mother > (my GGM) > > > immigrated in 1907, age 33. My GM immigrated to Tonawanda, New > > > York, in 1914, age 12 years; her father had previously immigrated > > > in 1906 & > 1910, > > > and returned to Glogowatz for the last time in 1914 to accompany > > > his > wife > > > and 4 remaining children. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is still an active Hungarian Club in Buffalo, but no > > > Donauschwabclub. My mother states that her parents and older > > > sister went to the German club but that it closed during WWII and > > > never reopened. There was > distrust > > > and fear at the time; many of the neighbors’ sons were soldiers > fighting > > > overseas. > > > > > > > > > > > > When my immigrant grandparents talked about “the old country” as > > > they called it, they always spoke of themselves as Germans from > Austria-Hungary, > > > never mentioning either the Banat or Donauschwaben. One of my huge > brick > > > walls is trying to learn where in Germany my ancestors emigrated > > > from > in > > > the 1700’s. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find them in the > > > Stadervolumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > All these postings and the information provided on the DVHH site > > > have > been > > > a wonderful gift of discovery! There is always something new to > > > learn, particularly from listers with family memories of what life > > > was like > in the > > > Banat for both the people who stayed and those who emigrated. > > > > > > > > > Thank You All, > > > > > > > > > Linda > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Jody McKim Pharr > <jodymckimpharr@comcast > > > .net> wrote: > > > > > >> Tina, -- First or second marriage, you're still the daughter of a > Schwowe. > > >> Barb, -- My family who immigrated to the US lived like they were > > >> in > the > > >> witness protection program. They would barely talk about anything. > Papa > > >> would tell his kids (my grandmother and siblings) to speak > > >> English > "You are > > >> in America now!". It wasn't until 1999 when I started my family > research > > >> quest. It wasn’t easy figuring out all the answers to my > > >> questions > after > > >> those who had the answers had passed away. Because of our > > >> wonderful > and > > >> knowledgeable DVHH volunteers, it all fell in place. > > >> > > >> This list and DVHH volunteers love genealogical digs, so if you > > >> have > brick > > >> walls, post it onto the mail list. > > >> Note: If anyone helps you privately from the list, pass it back > > >> to the entire mail list, it's the only way others who wish to > > >> help can know > where > > >> you are at in your search. > > >> > > >> Thanks for sharing, > > >> > > >> Jody McKim Pharr > > >> Woodstock, GA - USA > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > > >> donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tina > > >> Michel > > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 3:11 PM > > >> To: Barb D; DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com > > >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe > > >> > > >> I have the same feeling as you Barb. Although my father kept on > telling > > >> us about the good eating and all the things that were done in and > around > > >> his village, I took everything for granted instead of asking why > > >> and > how. > > >> Also, we spoke several german dialects at home, but I never asked > > >> my father why he would speak schwowisch and not better > > >> Hochdeutsch > (Academic > > >> German). > > >> > > >> I was the youngest child of his second marriage, but I'm the only > > >> one > with > > >> a sense of belonging to his community and his past, and sure > > >> enough > with a > > >> need to dig and find out more. > > >> > > >> With kind regards, > > >> > > >> Tina Michel, > > >> Montreal > > >> > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Barb D" <bbd2424@gmail.com> > > >> To: "SusanM" <soozn_6@yahoo.com>; < > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 2:24 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe > > >> > > >> > > >>> I agree!!!! This has been fun and very informative. I hope it > > >>> keeps > up. I > > >>> am > > >>> getting the feel for how my grandparents and families lived and > died. So > > >>> many question to go and I will probably never have the answers > > >>> to > most. I > > >>> am > > >>> not even sure how to know if we are Donauschwaben or not. > > >>> I wish I had some stories to tell but it was my grandparents who > lived in > > >>> DSM. and they didn't talk a lot about the old country even to > > >>> their > kids > > >>> (sometimes with their old country friends) or maybe we weren't > > >>> paying enough attention to remember. All I can tell you is I > > >>> wish I had had > the > > >>> foresight to ask or listen better. > > >>> So keep the info coming please! If there is anything I can do to > help let > > >>> me > > >>> know. I live in a suburb of Chicago, Il. > > >>> Thanks so much for all info and help! > > >>> Barb D. > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: SusanM > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 11:36 AM > > >>> To: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com > > >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe > > >>> > > >>> I just wanted to say how much I have appreciated this > > >>> discussion. It > has > > >>> been so interesting, and now I want to go back and hunt the > archives. I'm > > >>> not sure what search terms to use though. Anyway, I wanted to > > >>> say > thanks > > >>> to > > >>> people who have written on this thread. I'm fascinated. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Susan M > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hallo Nick, long time past since you heard from me. Your AM message "Germania" deserves an applause. What ever Roman writer Tacitus wrote about past inhabitants is OK with me. Charlemagne in history class always impressed me: a thousand year reign -wow- (and I got bad notes for it.) Perhaps " Imperium Romanum Sanctum,Sanctum" was an irritation to me... and there one of our sons studies and lives km.s' from the Vatican. "Let it be," but I want to go back to your extensive post today. Colonization: When Josef IInd of the Habsburgh Empire succeeded and was asked where he would reign from: He said Aachen or Frankfurt, acc. to AMG (Adam Mueller Guttenbrunn.)This is my message and whatever history says, or claims of the Reich by the double headed eagle or the single headed one. Is OK, too. Viva la Germania Gary Banzhaf/Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Tullius" <ntullius@rogers.com> To: "'DVHH'" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe > Germany became a "Nation State" only in 1871, but "Germania" existed in > the Roman times (see what Roman writer Tacitus had to say about it and its > inhabitants: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/tacitus1.html > > Later, in the Middle Ages, the Holy Roman Empire came about when Frankish > king Charlemagne (German: Karl der Große) was crowned emperor, in the year > 800. It was a multi-ethnic complex of territories in central Europe, its > core and largest territory being the Kingdom of Germany. > In 1512 (Diet of Cologne), the name was officially changed to a > designation first used in a document in 1474: "Holy Roman Empire of the > German Nation" (German: Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation, Latin: > Imperium Romanum Sacrum Nationis Germanicæ). > This empire lasted until 1806 and is known in German historiography as > the First German Empire (Erstes Deutsches Reich). > For more details see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire > > The main colonization of the Banat took place in the period of 1722 to > 1787. During that time (actually until 1806 - see above) the Habsburgs > were emperors of the Holy Roman Empire described above. It is true that > the Habsburgs ruled over a composite state comprising territories within > and outside the Holy Roman Empire, united only in the person of the > monarch, with the dynastic capital Vienna (except from 1583 to 1611, when > it was Prague). > From 1804 to 1867 the Habsburg Monarchy was formally unified as the > Austrian Empire. > From 1867 to 1918 it was the Austro-Hungarian Empire. > > This little summary of history may explain the reason that the majority of > colonists to the Banat did not come from the "Austrian" territories, but > from the north-west of Germany. Some did come from Alsace (Elsass), others > from Lorraine (Lothringen); some spoke German, others French. And some > came from other Habsburg possessions and spoke Bosnian, Croatian, Czech, > Hungarian, Italian, > Polish, Romanian, Serbian, Slovak, Slovene, Ukrainian, or Yiddish. > > It is a complicated history, but I hope this summary helps just a little > bit. > > Nick Tullius > > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Linda > Jaspersen > Sent: 27-Apr-14 08:52 > To: Daniel HILAIRE > Cc: DVHH > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe > > Hi Daniel, > > Thank you for your informative response. I'm somewhat embarrassed that I > forgot so much of my European history regarding Austria-Hungary. Of > course... Germany did not exist as a state before 1871! I just now > reviewed an old atlas from that period. It was an important step forward > in understanding the historical background of both Austria-Hungary and the > Banat region. > > Your response also lead to my reviewing the details of the 1919 Treaty of > Versailles, resulting in Germany ceding many territories, including Alsace > and Lorraine, which they had annexed in 1871, after the Franco-Prussian > War. It sounds like you know your history very well, but I definitely > needed to go back and review it all. Your gentle nudge in the right > direction has pushed me forward to a better understanding of the > historical facts and boundaries, which are obviously very important in > genealogy. > > Merci beaucoup! > > Linda > > > On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Daniel HILAIRE > <danielhilaire@hotmail.com>wrote: > >> John, >> >> Most of people coming from Alsace-Lorraine (in fact, Lorraine), didn't >> speak german when they arrived in Banat; they were speaking only >> french and same for their children; but, as the local administration, >> the army, sometimes the boys or the girls they married, were speaking >> german, they had to speak german and finally they lost their french >> language; so, >> 120-130 years after, when they arrived to US, they were speaking only >> german until... 120 years after, their descendants speak english and >> very few are able to speak german! >> Another point : Lorraine was not a part of France until 1766 Last >> point : Germany, as a state, didn't exist before 1871; to obtain this, >> Bismark had to fight against Austria in 1866 (and again the french in >> 1870). So, there was no "german from Austria-Hungary". >> >> But, as another member of the group explained very well a couple of >> days ago, it's too difficult for a Banater Schwaben to explain who he >> is really; so, let's people from Lorraine, speaking french, become... >> German from Austria. >> >> Hope you'll pardon me for these points. >> >> Bonne journée >> >> Daniel Hilaire, Bordeaux >> >> >> >> >> > From: jfschambre@comcast.net >> > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:53:15 -0700 >> > To: ljaspersen@gmail.com >> > CC: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com >> >> > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe >> > >> > Linda: It is possible your family came from Alsace-Lorraine France >> > where >> so many German speaking people lived and migrated to the Banat. I >> thought my family came from Germany too because, like yours, they >> always said they were German from Austria-Hungary. Well, they were >> German and, once they moved to the Banat, they were Austro-Hungarians >> but before that, probably back in the late 1600's or throughout the >> 1700 and 1800's they may have lived in France. It was quite a revelation >> to me. >> > >> > Interestingly, my family had relatives in Buffalo and Tonawanda too! >> Their family names were Bishop and Stetzer and, unfortunately I >> haven't been able to find out much about them. I remember them >> visiting us in Mansfield, Ohio (my home town) but we never went to New >> York to see them. >> So many mysteries to uncover! >> > >> > Best of luck in your research! >> > >> > John F. Schambre >> > San Francisco, CA >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Apr 24, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Linda Jaspersen <ljaspersen@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > > Rose - Thank you for starting this very informative thread! The >> heritage >> > > postings have been fascinating! I have enjoyed reading them all - >> trying to >> > > catch up after the busy Easter holiday. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Jody and other DVHH listees - I can relate to the many comments >> > > about little information offered by our Donauschwab ancestors. >> > > Perhaps they >> were >> > > too busy struggling to support their families, learn English, and >> adapt to >> > > a radically new life in their adopted country. And in my case... I >> > > also regret not asking the questions that might have triggered >> > > more sharing >> of >> > > oral history before my grandparents died. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Brief background for those interested: My maternal grandparents >> > > were >> born >> > > in Glogowatz, as were their parents and grandparents, etc., to the >> 1700’s, >> > > according to Erwin Kilzheimer’s wonderful Familienbuch. My GF >> immigrant to >> > > Buffalo, New York, as a teenager in 1909, age 13; his widowed >> > > mother >> (my GGM) >> > > immigrated in 1907, age 33. My GM immigrated to Tonawanda, New >> > > York, in 1914, age 12 years; her father had previously immigrated >> > > in 1906 & >> 1910, >> > > and returned to Glogowatz for the last time in 1914 to accompany >> > > his >> wife >> > > and 4 remaining children. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > There is still an active Hungarian Club in Buffalo, but no >> > > Donauschwabclub. My mother states that her parents and older >> > > sister went to the German club but that it closed during WWII and >> > > never reopened. There was >> distrust >> > > and fear at the time; many of the neighbors’ sons were soldiers >> fighting >> > > overseas. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > When my immigrant grandparents talked about “the old country” as >> > > they called it, they always spoke of themselves as Germans from >> Austria-Hungary, >> > > never mentioning either the Banat or Donauschwaben. One of my huge >> brick >> > > walls is trying to learn where in Germany my ancestors emigrated >> > > from >> in >> > > the 1700’s. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find them in the >> > > Stadervolumes. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > All these postings and the information provided on the DVHH site >> > > have >> been >> > > a wonderful gift of discovery! There is always something new to >> > > learn, particularly from listers with family memories of what life >> > > was like >> in the >> > > Banat for both the people who stayed and those who emigrated. >> > > >> > > >> > > Thank You All, >> > > >> > > >> > > Linda >> > > >> > > >> > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Jody McKim Pharr >> <jodymckimpharr@comcast >> > > .net> wrote: >> > > >> > >> Tina, -- First or second marriage, you're still the daughter of a >> Schwowe. >> > >> Barb, -- My family who immigrated to the US lived like they were >> > >> in >> the >> > >> witness protection program. They would barely talk about anything. >> Papa >> > >> would tell his kids (my grandmother and siblings) to speak >> > >> English >> "You are >> > >> in America now!". It wasn't until 1999 when I started my family >> research >> > >> quest. It wasn’t easy figuring out all the answers to my >> > >> questions >> after >> > >> those who had the answers had passed away. Because of our >> > >> wonderful >> and >> > >> knowledgeable DVHH volunteers, it all fell in place. >> > >> >> > >> This list and DVHH volunteers love genealogical digs, so if you >> > >> have >> brick >> > >> walls, post it onto the mail list. >> > >> Note: If anyone helps you privately from the list, pass it back >> > >> to the entire mail list, it's the only way others who wish to >> > >> help can know >> where >> > >> you are at in your search. >> > >> >> > >> Thanks for sharing, >> > >> >> > >> Jody McKim Pharr >> > >> Woodstock, GA - USA >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> > >> From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: >> > >> donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tina >> > >> Michel >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 3:11 PM >> > >> To: Barb D; DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com >> > >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe >> > >> >> > >> I have the same feeling as you Barb. Although my father kept on >> telling >> > >> us about the good eating and all the things that were done in and >> around >> > >> his village, I took everything for granted instead of asking why >> > >> and >> how. >> > >> Also, we spoke several german dialects at home, but I never asked >> > >> my father why he would speak schwowisch and not better >> > >> Hochdeutsch >> (Academic >> > >> German). >> > >> >> > >> I was the youngest child of his second marriage, but I'm the only >> > >> one >> with >> > >> a sense of belonging to his community and his past, and sure >> > >> enough >> with a >> > >> need to dig and find out more. >> > >> >> > >> With kind regards, >> > >> >> > >> Tina Michel, >> > >> Montreal >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> > >> From: "Barb D" <bbd2424@gmail.com> >> > >> To: "SusanM" <soozn_6@yahoo.com>; < >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com> >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 2:24 PM >> > >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> I agree!!!! This has been fun and very informative. I hope it >> > >>> keeps >> up. I >> > >>> am >> > >>> getting the feel for how my grandparents and families lived and >> died. So >> > >>> many question to go and I will probably never have the answers >> > >>> to >> most. I >> > >>> am >> > >>> not even sure how to know if we are Donauschwaben or not. >> > >>> I wish I had some stories to tell but it was my grandparents who >> lived in >> > >>> DSM. and they didn't talk a lot about the old country even to >> > >>> their >> kids >> > >>> (sometimes with their old country friends) or maybe we weren't >> > >>> paying enough attention to remember. All I can tell you is I >> > >>> wish I had had >> the >> > >>> foresight to ask or listen better. >> > >>> So keep the info coming please! If there is anything I can do to >> help let >> > >>> me >> > >>> know. I live in a suburb of Chicago, Il. >> > >>> Thanks so much for all info and help! >> > >>> Barb D. >> > >>> >> > >>> -----Original Message----- >> > >>> From: SusanM >> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 11:36 AM >> > >>> To: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com >> > >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe >> > >>> >> > >>> I just wanted to say how much I have appreciated this >> > >>> discussion. It >> has >> > >>> been so interesting, and now I want to go back and hunt the >> archives. I'm >> > >>> not sure what search terms to use though. Anyway, I wanted to >> > >>> say >> thanks >> > >>> to >> > >>> people who have written on this thread. I'm fascinated. >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> Susan M >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ------------------------------- >> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message