Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent individually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it Fabulous!! Karen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net> To: "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" <easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. > "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered > herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher > who > in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in > Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified > their > primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine > and > her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat > before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned > about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. > > Diane > > Diane Halas > 239-592-9969 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Schambre > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM > To: Eileen Simcox > Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Hi Eileen: > > Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. > My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always > told > me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in > France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that > I > am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - > which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. > > I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the > tests > too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern > European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from > the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know > there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect > my > maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish > blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European > roots > come from. > > Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the > name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the > 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area > but > I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching > English > records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as > primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I > might > have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll > need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. > > So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed > have > British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in > Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in > time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't > worry > too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be > interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We > are > German! Period! :-)) > > All the best in your research. > John > > > John F. Schambre > San Francisco, CA > > > > On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox <easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined >> DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? >> I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've >> felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I >> would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . >> >> Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der >> Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four >> grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. >> >> I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which >> should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, >> Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at >> the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify > the results or negate them . . . >> I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated >> that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA > testing? >> >> Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a >> fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from >> her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating >> at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel >> dough for poppy seed strudel! :( >> >> Thank you, >> Eileen Gauder Simcox >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Karen, That was so FABULOUSLY said!!!!!!! I am 2 generationS removed and it help put things in the proper perspective . I hope everyone will see it the same way Thanks, Barb Dannenbeg -----Original Message----- From: islandkaren Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:24 PM To: Diane Halas ; 'John Schambre' ; 'Eileen Simcox' Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent individually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it Fabulous!! Karen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net> To: "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" <easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. > "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered > herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher > who > in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in > Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified > their > primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine > and > her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat > before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned > about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. > > Diane > > Diane Halas > 239-592-9969 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Schambre > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM > To: Eileen Simcox > Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Hi Eileen: > > Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. > My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always > told > me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in > France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that > I > am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - > which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. > > I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the > tests > too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern > European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from > the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know > there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect > my > maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish > blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European > roots > come from. > > Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the > name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the > 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area > but > I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching > English > records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as > primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I > might > have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll > need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. > > So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed > have > British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in > Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in > time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't > worry > too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be > interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We > are > German! Period! :-)) > > All the best in your research. > John > > > John F. Schambre > San Francisco, CA > > > > On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox <easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined >> DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? >> I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've >> felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I >> would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . >> >> Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der >> Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four >> grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. >> >> I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which >> should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, >> Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at >> the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify > the results or negate them . . . >> I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated >> that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA > testing? >> >> Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a >> fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from >> her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating >> at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel >> dough for poppy seed strudel! :( >> >> Thank you, >> Eileen Gauder Simcox >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A very good explanation and very well put, I think I can offer a bit of perspective on why Nick Tullis would say that your native tongue determined your ethnicity -- From all the stories I was told this was the driving factor for the persecution of the DS.people because their native tongue was German. My mother's family (Michera, Stark) come from a small town outside of Belgrade in what is now Serbia named Karlsdorf. She went to School and only learned German even though there were Serbs and other ethnic groups also in the town. When the Russians and Partisans came to pilage the towns, they went to the German speaking homes even though these families had settled here so many years before.In my mother's family there is Beohemian and Hungarian (Kalitovich, Horwath) but the key factor that distinguished these folks is that their native language was German. In a simalar fashion my father (Heiberger, Hanner) is from a small town in Croatia --- Drenje. He went to school and learned Croation but at home they spoke German. This did not stop the cleansing from his town either as they were identified as German. I am a first Generation American -- in all the stories I heard growing up from my parents, Oma's and Ota's, and family and friends the fact that DS was identified by their native language, that being German. Where in truth by the time of 1900's many of these families had many ethnicities in their family tree but the distingushing factor always being native language as German.even if they spoke Croation, Serbish, Hungarian etc.... And I am always in awe of these peoples who lost everything, endured such hardships and still found the courage to not only survive but thrive. I have the most wonderful memories of them and the sacrifices they made so my life would be better. I'm sure I'm not alone in that feeling. -----Original Message----- From: Barb D <bbd2424@gmail.com> To: islandkaren <islandkaren@bellsouth.net>; Diane Halas <dvhalas@comcast.net>; 'John Schambre' <jfschambre@comcast.net>; 'Eileen Simcox' <easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: donauschwaben-villages <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 30, 2014 2:03 pm Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Karen, hat was so FABULOUSLY said!!!!!!! I am 2 generationS removed and it help ut things in the proper perspective . I hope everyone will see it the same ay hanks, arb Dannenbeg -----Original Message----- rom: islandkaren ent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:24 PM o: Diane Halas ; 'John Schambre' ; 'Eileen Simcox' c: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com ubject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that our Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during he short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the ustrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' ungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a ast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in istory, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the eographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s nd going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick ullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time n the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree ith him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then ecomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your ersonal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as ell as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of our conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which appens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact hat in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity o have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time robability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more eriod were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater urope and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that s universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to he vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and roductive. When you look closely you come to discover that their ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge ariety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, ducation attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village roup could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to hem, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or dentified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far icher and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a ollective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but ather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of deal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" dentity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a ourage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent ndividually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was orn a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, rench, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the est of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian nd practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. hen...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it abulous!! Karen. ---- Original Message ----- rom: "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net> o: "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" easimcox@gmail.com> c: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> ent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM ubject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher who in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified their primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine and her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. Diane Diane Halas 239-592-9969 -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Schambre Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM To: Eileen Simcox Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Hi Eileen: Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always told me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that I am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the tests too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect my maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European roots come from. Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area but I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching English records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I might have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed have British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't worry too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We are German! Period! :-)) All the best in your research. John John F. Schambre San Francisco, CA On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox <easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined > DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? > I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've > felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I > would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . > > Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der > Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four > grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. > > I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which > should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, > Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at > the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify the results or negate them . . . > I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated > that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA testing? > > Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a > fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from > her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating > at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel > dough for poppy seed strudel! :( > > Thank you, > Eileen Gauder Simcox > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' ithout the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

This discussion seems to never die. I put togeher a few points about the nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the issue. The long-time followers of this List may want to skip them 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or they can form a national minority. 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were multinational because of the presence of national minorities). 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of nationality by the country of birth would have been impossible. Attempts to change their nationality by force were never completely successful. 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by birth or by naturalization. 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily citizenship). 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized national minority. That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a well-established historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, history, language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language literature, in the arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was finally demonstrated by their recent (by historical time) immigration to and integration in the country of their ancestors. The latter are the vast majority; we in the New World (North America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we are free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors made their own decisions. May they rest in peace! Nick Tullius -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of islandkaren Sent: 30-Apr-14 13:24 To: Diane Halas; 'John Schambre'; 'Eileen Simcox' Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent individually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it Fabulous!! Karen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Halas" < <mailto:dvhalas@comcast.net> dvhalas@comcast.net> To: "'John Schambre'" < <mailto:jfschambre@comcast.net> jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" < <mailto:easimcox@gmail.com> easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: < <mailto:donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. > "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered > herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher > who > in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in > Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified > their > primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine > and > her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat > before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned > about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. > > Diane > > Diane Halas > 239-592-9969 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: <mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [ <mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com> mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Schambre > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM > To: Eileen Simcox > Cc: <mailto:donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Hi Eileen: > > Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. > My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always > told > me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in > France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that > I > am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - > which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. > > I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the > tests > too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern > European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from > the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know > there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect > my > maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish > blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European > roots > come from. > > Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the > name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the > 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area > but > I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching > English > records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as > primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I > might > have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll > need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. > > So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed > have > British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in > Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in > time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't > worry > too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be > interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We > are > German! Period! :-)) > > All the best in your research. > John > > > John F. Schambre > San Francisco, CA > > > > On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox < <mailto:easimcox@gmail.com> easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined >> DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? >> I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've >> felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I >> would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . >> >> Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der >> Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four >> grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. >> >> I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which >> should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, >> Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at >> the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify > the results or negate them . . . >> I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated >> that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA > testing? >> >> Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a >> fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from >> her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating >> at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel >> dough for poppy seed strudel! :( >> >> Thank you, >> Eileen Gauder Simcox >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message