This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard to if they at least leave the last post. Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line for the one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have the subject lines edited. Eve On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson <bhilderson@msn.com>wrote: > To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please don't take > offense; but it was very difficult to > read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you delete > all other messages before replying > it would make your reply easier to read. Barb > > > > > >>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > >>> > >>> > >>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the > >>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an > >> exhibition > >>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. > >> > http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 > >>> > > > . > to Karen, > > Thank you for the explanation as to > "Our Beginnings" > We should be grateful for those who went before us...... > And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Diane: > > With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that > your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during > the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the > Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' > Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is > a > vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period > in > history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the > geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early > 1800s > and going forward. > > I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick > Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time > in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I > disagree > with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then > becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your > personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as > well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of > your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which > happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact > that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive > identity > to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all > 'Germans' then". > > It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time > probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more > period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater > Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity > that > is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to > the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful > and > productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their > "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their > "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge > variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, > education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village > group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to > them, speaks to that fact and informs it. > > None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or > identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far > richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a > collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but > rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness > of > ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" > identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a > courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent > individually. > > There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was > born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, > Italian, > French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the > best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian > and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. > Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call > it > Fabulous!! > > Karen. > > > > > > > > > > --Forwarded Message Attachment-- > From: MFCobb1@aol.com > CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; dvhalas@comcast.net; > jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank you for > the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a formal > and > elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both > for > you time and effort. > > Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb > (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio > (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, > Austria-Hungary) > Newberg Oregon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This discussion seems to never die. I put togeher a few points about the > nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the issue. The > long-time followers of this List may want to skip them > > > > 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing > common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or they > can form a national minority. > > 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of > the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were > multinational because of the presence of national minorities). > > 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the > territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of nationality > by the country of birth would have been impossible. Attempts to change > their > nationality by force were never completely successful. > > 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and > citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by birth or by > naturalization. > > 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the > ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily > citizenship). > > 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a > nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized > national > minority. > > > > That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a well-established > historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, history, > language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language literature, in > the > arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was finally demonstrated by > their recent (by historical time) immigration to and integration in the > country of their ancestors. The latter are the vast majority; we in the New > World (North America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we > are free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors > made > their own decisions. May they rest in peace! > > > > Nick Tullius > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Syrmia Regional Coordinator http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia