Hi Tina, Thank you for the information on the history of the area of Lorraine. I have a genealogy help group on Facebook for Lorraine and I was wondering if I might copy your letter (with full credit to you of course) and post it in my group to assist people. Yours is the best explanation of the history of the region I have seen. Peggy Doyle --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: tranpro@primus.ca CC: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com To: jfschambre@comcast.net; milpegg@centurytel.net Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 00:48:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [DVHH] Marienfeld look-up please If I may add a precision. I was born in Metz, Departement of Moselle, Lorraine Region (Lothringen, Mosel in German). This region, let's say, is part of France since the end of WWII, but was once an independent Duchy. It was much bigger in size at the time of the 3 grandsons of Karl the Great (Charlemagne - around 840 and even after for some centuries), King of the Franks (germanic tribe). After the death of Louis the son of Karl the Great, his empire was divided into three and given to his 3 sons. Lorraine/Lothringer was given to Lothar or Lothaire in French (that's where the name of the region comes from): see Wiki for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorraine_(region). The Land of Saar (German Saarland - French la Sarre), used to be part of Lorraine for a short period only, but this is not what is called the German Lorraine (Deutsch Lothringen). It is only the Departement of Moselle that was always called the German Lorraine. This is one of the 4 departements that compose the Region of Lorraine. Alsace is a different region (given to Louis the German, brother of Lothar), is even more germanic (Alemanni). You will find very interesting facts reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace. In 1940, the Departement of Moselle and the Region of Alsace were considered German de facto. After 1945, these two returned to France. In regards to Alsace-Lorraine (Elsass-Lothringen in German) - this is also a short-lived expression. It lasted only as long as the Prussians controlled the area (1870-1918), although it would be more accurate to say Alsace-Moselle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine. So if anyone of you thinks that his ancestors could have come from Lorraine, they may indeed have spoken either French or German, whereas for Alsace, it is more likely they have spoken a german dialekt (close enough, in some villages, to the Schwowisch dialekt). I hope this has helped clarify some misunderstandings. Best regards to all the group. Tina Michel, Montreal ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schambre" <jfschambre@comcast.net> To: "Peggy" <milpegg@centurytel.net> Cc: "DVHH Mail List" <DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Marienfeld look-up please Hi Peggy: I don't know anything about Marienfeld but I do know that Lothringen is the name given to the area in Alsace-Lorraine France where many 'german speaking' people lived and eventually migrated to the Banat. I found my family there too! I'm sure you will hear from other regarding marienfeld as it appears there are quite a few listers who are familiar with that town. Best of luck! John F. Schambre San Francisco, CA

Thanks to everyone who has posted information about the history of Lorraine. I also have ancestors from Lothringen and the posts have cleared up a lot of confusion. Barb Koch >________________________________ > From: Peggy Doyle <pegdoyle@hotmail.com> >To: donauschwaben village list <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 10:27 AM >Subject: [DVHH] History of Lorraine > > > > >Hi Tina, >Thank you for the information on the history of the area of Lorraine. I have a genealogy help group on Facebook for Lorraine and I was wondering if I might copy your letter (with full credit to you of course) and post it in my group to assist people. Yours is the best explanation of the history of the region I have seen. > >Peggy Doyle > >--Forwarded Message Attachment-- >From: tranpro@primus.ca >CC: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com >To: jfschambre@comcast.net; milpegg@centurytel.net >Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 00:48:00 -0400 >Subject: Re: [DVHH] Marienfeld look-up please > >If I may add a precision.  I was born in Metz, Departement of Moselle, >Lorraine Region (Lothringen, Mosel in German).  This region, let's say, is >part of France since the end of WWII, but was once an independent Duchy. > >It was much bigger in size at the time of the 3 grandsons of Karl the Great >(Charlemagne - around 840 and even after for some centuries), King of the >Franks (germanic tribe).  After the death of Louis the son of Karl the >Great, his empire was divided into three and given to his 3 sons. >Lorraine/Lothringer was given to Lothar or Lothaire in French (that's where >the name of the region comes from): see Wiki for more info: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorraine_(region). > >The Land of Saar (German Saarland - French la Sarre), used to be part of >Lorraine for a short period only, but this is not what is called the German >Lorraine (Deutsch Lothringen).  It is only the Departement of Moselle that >was always called the German Lorraine. This is one of the 4 departements >that compose the Region of Lorraine.  Alsace is a different region  (given >to Louis the German, brother of Lothar), is even more germanic (Alemanni). >You will find very interesting facts reading: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace. In 1940, the Departement of Moselle >and the Region of Alsace were considered German de facto.  After 1945, these >two returned to France. > >In regards to Alsace-Lorraine (Elsass-Lothringen in German) - this is also a >short-lived expression.  It lasted only as long as the Prussians controlled >the area (1870-1918), although it would be more accurate to say >Alsace-Moselle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine. > >So if anyone of you thinks that his ancestors could have come from Lorraine, >they may indeed have spoken either French or German, whereas for Alsace, it >is more likely they have spoken a german dialekt (close enough, in some >villages, to the Schwowisch dialekt). > >I hope this has helped clarify some misunderstandings. > >Best regards to all the group. > >Tina Michel, >Montreal > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Schambre" <jfschambre@comcast.net> >To: "Peggy" <milpegg@centurytel.net> >Cc: "DVHH Mail List" <DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 2:56 PM >Subject: Re: [DVHH] Marienfeld look-up please > > >Hi Peggy: > >I don't know anything about Marienfeld but I do know that Lothringen is the >name given to the area in Alsace-Lorraine France where many 'german >speaking' people lived and eventually migrated to the Banat.  I found my >family there too! > >I'm sure you will hear from other regarding marienfeld as it appears there >are quite a few listers who are familiar with that town. > >Best of luck! > >John F. Schambre >San Francisco, CA >                        > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

To All List Members: The DVHH website has a good section devoted to Alsace-Lorraine with much information, maps and links to other sources. http://dvhh.org/genealogy/alsace-lorraine.htm Beth Tolfree www.dvhh.org/apatin/ -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peggy Doyle Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 7:27 AM To: donauschwaben village list Subject: [DVHH] History of Lorraine Hi Tina, Thank you for the information on the history of the area of Lorraine. I have a genealogy help group on Facebook for Lorraine and I was wondering if I might copy your letter (with full credit to you of course) and post it in my group to assist people. Yours is the best explanation of the history of the region I have seen. Peggy Doyle --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: tranpro@primus.ca CC: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com To: jfschambre@comcast.net; milpegg@centurytel.net Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 00:48:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [DVHH] Marienfeld look-up please If I may add a precision. I was born in Metz, Departement of Moselle, Lorraine Region (Lothringen, Mosel in German). This region, let's say, is part of France since the end of WWII, but was once an independent Duchy. It was much bigger in size at the time of the 3 grandsons of Karl the Great (Charlemagne - around 840 and even after for some centuries), King of the Franks (germanic tribe). After the death of Louis the son of Karl the Great, his empire was divided into three and given to his 3 sons. Lorraine/Lothringer was given to Lothar or Lothaire in French (that's where the name of the region comes from): see Wiki for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorraine_(region). The Land of Saar (German Saarland - French la Sarre), used to be part of Lorraine for a short period only, but this is not what is called the German Lorraine (Deutsch Lothringen). It is only the Departement of Moselle that was always called the German Lorraine. This is one of the 4 departements that compose the Region of Lorraine. Alsace is a different region (given to Louis the German, brother of Lothar), is even more germanic (Alemanni). You will find very interesting facts reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace. In 1940, the Departement of Moselle and the Region of Alsace were considered German de facto. After 1945, these two returned to France. In regards to Alsace-Lorraine (Elsass-Lothringen in German) - this is also a short-lived expression. It lasted only as long as the Prussians controlled the area (1870-1918), although it would be more accurate to say Alsace-Moselle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine. So if anyone of you thinks that his ancestors could have come from Lorraine, they may indeed have spoken either French or German, whereas for Alsace, it is more likely they have spoken a german dialekt (close enough, in some villages, to the Schwowisch dialekt). I hope this has helped clarify some misunderstandings. Best regards to all the group. Tina Michel, Montreal ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schambre" <jfschambre@comcast.net> To: "Peggy" <milpegg@centurytel.net> Cc: "DVHH Mail List" <DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Marienfeld look-up please Hi Peggy: I don't know anything about Marienfeld but I do know that Lothringen is the name given to the area in Alsace-Lorraine France where many 'german speaking' people lived and eventually migrated to the Banat. I found my family there too! I'm sure you will hear from other regarding marienfeld as it appears there are quite a few listers who are familiar with that town. Best of luck! John F. Schambre San Francisco, CA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Vary good history Tina. The Franken did have an heritance rule; "all heirs would get equal shares" Therefore each grandson did get a share of Karl the Great (Charlemagne) empire.  The oldest grandson Lothar did get Lothringen named after him. His part of the empire reached from what is now northern Italy including Corsica, Tuscany, The Kingdom of Itay, The Lombardi, Freiau, Burgund, Elsass the land to the north called Lothringen, and Friesland. The second grandson Karl did get West Franken including Gascony, Aquitania, and Francia. Ludwig the youngest also called "the German" did get East Franken, including Carinthia, Bavaria, Alamania, Franken, Thüringen, Saxony. Lothringen now includes Holland, Belgium and Luxembourg. The land to the south is what was left of Lothringen, partly speaking French but mainly speaking German, that is until our ancestors were forced out and settled with French speaking people. 100,000 people came to settle in Hungary of which 24.6 came from Lothringen not speak of the people who left from Lothringen to the USA and Canada?     The problem was that Lothar died early and his land was divided again among the living brothers. Which started continued brother feuds.  The out come even today thee feud goes on between the French and Germans whose is whose.  Sources map:           The Anchor Atlas of World History, by Hermann Kinder and Werner Hilgemann.Gruss Hans On Sunday, April 27, 2014 1:18 PM, Beth Tolfree <cbtol43@bak.rr.com> wrote:   To All List Members: The DVHH website has a good section devoted to Alsace-Lorraine with much information, maps and links to other sources. http://dvhh.org/genealogy/alsace-lorraine.htm Beth Tolfree www.dvhh.org/apatin/ -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peggy Doyle Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 7:27 AM To: donauschwaben village list Subject: [DVHH] History of Lorraine Hi Tina, Thank you for the information on the history of the area of Lorraine. I have a genealogy help group on Facebook for Lorraine and I was wondering if I might copy your letter (with full credit to you of course) and post it in my group to assist people. Yours is the best explanation of the history of the region I have seen. Peggy Doyle --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: tranpro@primus.ca CC: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com To: jfschambre@comcast.net; milpegg@centurytel.net Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 00:48:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [DVHH] Marienfeld look-up please If I may add a precision.  I was born in Metz, Departement of Moselle, Lorraine Region (Lothringen, Mosel in German).  This region, let's say, is part of France since the end of WWII, but was once an independent Duchy. It was much bigger in size at the time of the 3 grandsons of Karl the Great (Charlemagne - around 840 and even after for some centuries), King of the Franks (germanic tribe).  After the death of Louis the son of Karl the Great, his empire was divided into three and given to his 3 sons. Lorraine/Lothringer was given to Lothar or Lothaire in French (that's where the name of the region comes from): see Wiki for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorraine_(region). The Land of Saar (German Saarland - French la Sarre), used to be part of Lorraine for a short period only, but this is not what is called the German Lorraine (Deutsch Lothringen).  It is only the Departement of Moselle that was always called the German Lorraine. This is one of the 4 departements that compose the Region of Lorraine.  Alsace is a different region  (given to Louis the German, brother of Lothar), is even more germanic (Alemanni). You will find very interesting facts reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace. In 1940, the Departement of Moselle and the Region of Alsace were considered German de facto.  After 1945, these two returned to France. In regards to Alsace-Lorraine (Elsass-Lothringen in German) - this is also a short-lived expression.  It lasted only as long as the Prussians controlled the area (1870-1918), although it would be more accurate to say Alsace-Moselle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine. So if anyone of you thinks that his ancestors could have come from Lorraine, they may indeed have spoken either French or German, whereas for Alsace, it is more likely they have spoken a german dialekt (close enough, in some villages, to the Schwowisch dialekt). I hope this has helped clarify some misunderstandings. Best regards to all the group. Tina Michel, Montreal ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schambre" <jfschambre@comcast.net> To: "Peggy" <milpegg@centurytel.net> Cc: "DVHH Mail List" <DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Marienfeld look-up please Hi Peggy: I don't know anything about Marienfeld but I do know that Lothringen is the name given to the area in Alsace-Lorraine France where many 'german speaking' people lived and eventually migrated to the Banat.  I found my family there too! I'm sure you will hear from other regarding marienfeld as it appears there are quite a few listers who are familiar with that town. Best of luck! John F. Schambre San Francisco, CA                         ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message