Thanks very much Barb. Good, bad or ugly I absolutely have zero intention of offending. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barb D" <bbd2424@gmail.com> To: "islandkaren" <islandkaren@bellsouth.net>; "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net>; "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" <easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > Karen, > That was so FABULOUSLY said!!!!!!! I am 2 generationS removed and it help > put things in the proper perspective . I hope everyone will see it the > same way > Thanks, > Barb Dannenbeg > > -----Original Message----- > From: islandkaren > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:24 PM > To: Diane Halas ; 'John Schambre' ; 'Eileen Simcox' > Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Hi Diane: > > With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that > your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed > during > the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the > Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the > "barbarian' > Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is > a > vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period > in > history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the > geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early > 1800s > and going forward. > > I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick > Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real > time > in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I > disagree > with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then > becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs > your > personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as > well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description > of > your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which > happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the > fact > that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive > identity > to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all > 'Germans' then". > > It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time > probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more > period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over > greater > Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity > that > is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to > the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful > and > productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their > "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their > "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge > variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, > education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village > group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to > them, speaks to that fact and informs it. > > None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or > identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far > richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a > collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", > but > rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness > of > ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving > "Village" > identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and > a > courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent > individually. > > There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was > born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, > Italian, > French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the > best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian > and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. > Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call > it > Fabulous!! > > Karen. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net> > To: "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" > <easimcox@gmail.com> > Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > >>I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. >> "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered >> herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher >> who >> in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in >> Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified >> their >> primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine >> and >> her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat >> before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned >> about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. >> >> Diane >> >> Diane Halas >> 239-592-9969 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John >> Schambre >> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM >> To: Eileen Simcox >> Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >> >> Hi Eileen: >> >> Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. >> My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always >> told >> me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in >> France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows >> that >> I >> am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - >> which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. >> >> I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the >> tests >> too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the >> Southern >> European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from >> the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know >> there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect >> my >> maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish >> blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European >> roots >> come from. >> >> Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that >> the >> name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the >> 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area >> but >> I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching >> English >> records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as >> primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I >> might >> have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and >> I'll >> need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. >> >> So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed >> have >> British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in >> Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in >> time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't >> worry >> too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be >> interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We >> are >> German! Period! :-)) >> >> All the best in your research. >> John >> >> >> John F. Schambre >> San Francisco, CA >> >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox <easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined >>> DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? >>> I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've >>> felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I >>> would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . >>> >>> Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der >>> Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four >>> grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. >>> >>> I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which >>> should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, >>> Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at >>> the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify >> the results or negate them . . . >>> I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated >>> that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA >> testing? >>> >>> Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a >>> fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from >>> her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating >>> at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel >>> dough for poppy seed strudel! :( >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Eileen Gauder Simcox >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message