Roy, Thank you for this extremely helpful explanation. -----Original Message----- From: Roy Engel <royengel@rogers.com> To: Donauschwaben Villages Helping Hands (DVHH) <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Cc: bguysmom <bguysmom@aol.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 20, 2019 11:17 pm Subject: [DVHH] Re: DNA Testing It is important to understand the difference between nationality and ancestry.  They have different definitions.  A person's nationality is the name of the country in which they hold citizenship.  It has no direct relationship to their ancestry.  Those of us that live in the USA or Canada know this to be very obvious, unless you happen to belong to the indigenous community in North America.  If we have a discussion about ancestry, we have to clarify if we wish to discuss cultural or ethnic ancestry, or whether we want to discuss DNA ancestry.  Once again, they are not necessarily the same thing.  A person's ethnic or cultural ancestry generally refers to the location, language, customs, cuisine, etc. that was the realm of their most recent ancestors.  To put it bluntly, if your immediate ancestors spoke German, wore lederhosen and ate bratwurst, they were Germanic and no DNA test will change this.  DNA ancestry, when it is used to estimate an individual's geographic origin, is an attempt to define a person's deep ancestral roots based on statistics from a large DNA database of individuals.  The CBC Marketplace investigation showed that this is not an exacting science because each DNA ancestry provider uses their own database and that is fraught with two main problems.  Firstly, any database, no matter how large, is only a sampling.  Secondly, as was pointed out in the TV report, almost all human DNA is the same.  About 99% of our DNA is the same, so teasing out small differences on certain key chromosome markers was not an easy task.  One of the biggest problems is that it is impossible to know exactly how humans migrated throughout the world since the dawn of modern humanity.  Nobody kept any records in those very early days.  We can only rely on anthropological clues and what we can infer from the distribution of people around the world in modern times.  I think we can confidently assume that genetically distinct people did not move as distinct, cohesive groups throughout human history without any mixing.  This is exactly why the pie charts and percentages that you receive with your results never give you a result that is 100% of any given ancestry.  My biggest frustration is that these percentages are never properly explained and the CBC report failed to do so as well.  When you see a breakdown of your results with percentages of various ancestries, it does not mean that you have ancestors that ever lived in those parts of the world.  What it does mean is that your genetic profile, which is based on the values on these genetic markers for which you have been tested, correspond to people currently living in those parts of the world, predicted as a percentage.  For example, if your report says that your genetic profile includes 15% Scandinavian, this does not mean that 15% of your ancestors came from Scandinavian countries.  In fact, it is very possible that none of your ancestors were ever in Scandinavia.  What it does mean is this:  Your genetic profile indicates that you share approximately 15% of the markers that you had tested with those people who are known to have Scandinavian ancestry.  What the tests can never tell you is whether you inherited those markers from an ancestor who was truly Scandinavian or whether you inherited those markers from an ancestor who was also common to people who migrated to the Scandinavian countries at some time later in history.  The difference is a bit subtle but it does have significant implications as to where you think your ancestors came from in the world.  Also be aware that only some of your markers are tested.  The companies that do the testing pick a representative small number of markers.  You can have more markers tested, which will refine your results and increase the confidence level of your results, but you have to pay more for this. Regards, Roy     On Sunday, January 20, 2019, 6:01:40 p.m. EST, bguysmom via DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> wrote:  I have done ancestry family tree 23&me I had my brothers do Ancestry to see the German it says Great Britian when I know 100% my Kircher Tobias are from Billed Hungary.   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: MARY ANN HUESER <mahueser@hotmail.com> Date: 1/20/19  5:44 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: [DVHH] DNA Testing There was a great program on TV the other night regarding finding out what nationality you are by doing DNA testing. Hopefully, copying and pasting will get you the program to watch on line. https://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/episodes/2018-2019/dna-ancestry-tests-can-you-trust-the-results Mary Ann _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community   _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thanks Roy. I knew someone could explain it. Sent from my iPad > On Jan 20, 2019, at 10:33 PM, Mary Regan via DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Roy, Thank you for this extremely helpful explanation. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roy Engel <royengel@rogers.com> > To: Donauschwaben Villages Helping Hands (DVHH) <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > Cc: bguysmom <bguysmom@aol.com> > Sent: Sun, Jan 20, 2019 11:17 pm > Subject: [DVHH] Re: DNA Testing > > It is important to understand the difference between nationality and ancestry. They have different definitions. A person's nationality is the name of the country in which they hold citizenship. It has no direct relationship to their ancestry. Those of us that live in the USA or Canada know this to be very obvious, unless you happen to belong to the indigenous community in North America. If we have a discussion about ancestry, we have to clarify if we wish to discuss cultural or ethnic ancestry, or whether we want to discuss DNA ancestry. Once again, they are not necessarily the same thing. A person's ethnic or cultural ancestry generally refers to the location, language, customs, cuisine, etc. that was the realm of their most recent ancestors. To put it bluntly, if your immediate ancestors spoke German, wore lederhosen and ate bratwurst, they were Germanic and no DNA test will change this. DNA ancestry, when it is used to estimate an individual's geographic origin, is an attempt to define a person's deep ancestral roots based on statistics from a large DNA database of individuals. The CBC Marketplace investigation showed that this is not an exacting science because each DNA ancestry provider uses their own database and that is fraught with two main problems. Firstly, any database, no matter how large, is only a sampling. Secondly, as was pointed out in the TV report, almost all human DNA is the same. About 99% of our DNA is the same, so teasing out small differences on certain key chromosome markers was not an easy task. One of the biggest problems is that it is impossible to know exactly how humans migrated throughout the world since the dawn of modern humanity. Nobody kept any records in those very early days. We can only rely on anthropological clues and what we can infer from the distribution of people around the world in modern times. I think we can confidently assume that genetically distinct people did not move as distinct, cohesive groups throughout human history without any mixing. This is exactly why the pie charts and percentages that you receive with your results never give you a result that is 100% of any given ancestry. My biggest frustration is that these percentages are never properly explained and the CBC report failed to do so as well. When you see a breakdown of your results with percentages of various ancestries, it does not mean that you have ancestors that ever lived in those parts of the world. What it does mean is that your genetic profile, which is based on the values on these genetic markers for which you have been tested, correspond to people currently living in those parts of the world, predicted as a percentage. For example, if your report says that your genetic profile includes 15% Scandinavian, this does not mean that 15% of your ancestors came from Scandinavian countries. In fact, it is very possible that none of your ancestors were ever in Scandinavia. What it does mean is this: Your genetic profile indicates that you share approximately 15% of the markers that you had tested with those people who are known to have Scandinavian ancestry. What the tests can never tell you is whether you inherited those markers from an ancestor who was truly Scandinavian or whether you inherited those markers from an ancestor who was also common to people who migrated to the Scandinavian countries at some time later in history. The difference is a bit subtle but it does have significant implications as to where you think your ancestors came from in the world. Also be aware that only some of your markers are tested. The companies that do the testing pick a representative small number of markers. You can have more markers tested, which will refine your results and increase the confidence level of your results, but you have to pay more for this. > Regards, > Roy > On Sunday, January 20, 2019, 6:01:40 p.m. EST, bguysmom via DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > I have done ancestry family tree 23&me I had my brothers do Ancestry to see the German it says Great Britian when I know 100% my Kircher Tobias are from Billed Hungary. > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > -------- Original message --------From: MARY ANN HUESER <mahueser@hotmail.com> Date: 1/20/19 5:44 PM (GMT-05:00) To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: [DVHH] DNA Testing > There was a great program on TV the other night regarding finding out what nationality you are by doing DNA testing. > > Hopefully, copying and pasting will get you the program to watch on line. > > https://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/episodes/2018-2019/dna-ancestry-tests-can-you-trust-the-results > > > Mary Ann > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community