So, I have a question. I have ancestry that came to the USA before and after WWI and they declared themselves to be Hungarian, even though they were of German heritage. Before the war their town, in the Batschka, was part of the Austria-Hungarian Empire. After the war they were part of Yugoslavia. So why did they see themselves as being Hungarian, as opposed to Austro-Hungarian and Yugoslavian? Dan Walter -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Steve Berwanger Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:27 PM To: <mjm1021@comcast.net> Cc: donauschwaben-villages; Barbara Subject: Re: [DVHH] German Hungarians Thanks........ This pretty much describes my memories of our family too! Steve Berwanger Sent from my iPad > On May 1, 2014, at 11:41 AM, <mjm1021@comcast.net> wrote: > > I never had a problem with my parents' describing themselves as German-Hungarians once I went back and studied their history. They were Germans who resettled in Hungary but kept their German culture mixed with some Hungarian culture. When they came to America they shortened it to German Americans. Their culture was still German mixed with some Hungarian. Their descendents became Americans. > > Fran Matkovich > > Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Fieder > To: Eve, Barbara Hilderson > Cc: donauschwaben-villages > Sent: April 30, 2014 at 5:08 PM > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > > Is there similar information anywhere for Batschka prisoners??? > Didn't find my dad's name (Peter) on the site provide below? > > Anton Fieder > > >> From: evebrown@gmail.com >> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:00:40 -0400 >> To: bhilderson@msn.com >> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [DVHH] Replying to posts >>> This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard to >>> if >> they at least leave the last post. >>> Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line >>> for the >> one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have >> the subject lines edited. >>> Eve >>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson <bhilderson@msn.com>wrote: >>>> To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please don't take >>> offense; but it was very difficult to >>> read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you delete >>> all other messages before replying >>> it would make your reply easier to read. Barb >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camp on the >>>>>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an >>>>> exhibition >>>>>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. >>>>>>> http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prison >>>>>>> ers-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Dail >>>>>>> y+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medi >>>>>>> um=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>> to Karen, >>>>> Thank you for the explanation as to >>> "Our Beginnings" >>> We should be grateful for those who went before us...... >>> And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Diane: >>>>> With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a >>>>> guess that >>> your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed >>> during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual >>> Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' >>> Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of >>> course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and >>> historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which >>> to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern >>> Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. >>>>> I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with >>>>> Nick >>> Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess >>> real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on >>> this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines >>> your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic >>> makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your >>> story and many others described on this list as well as my own, >>> informs this discussion totally. After your description of your >>> conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which >>> happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to >>> the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most >>> inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political >>> one...."we were all 'Germans' then". >>>>> It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a >>>>> real time >>> probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or >>> more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all >>> over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a >>> peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, >>> liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of >>> the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. >>> When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" >>> hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" >>> was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of >>> different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, >>> education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one >>> Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk >>> right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. >>>>> None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought >>>>> or >>> identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole >>> story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the >>> appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does >>> not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting >>> grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that >>> is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" >>> identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better >>> psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively >>> and magnificent individually. >>>>> There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And >>>>> she was >>> born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, >>> Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, >>> figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was >>> genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious >>> affiliations during her lifetime. >>> Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I >>> call it Fabulous!! >>>>> Karen. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- >>> From: MFCobb1@aol.com >>> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >>> To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; >>> dvhalas@comcast.net; jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com >>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >>>>> Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank >>>>> you for >>> the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a >>> formal and >>> elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both >>> for >>> you time and effort. >>>>> Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb >>> (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio >>> (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, >>> Austria-Hungary) >>> Newberg Oregon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This discussion seems to never die. I put >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> togeher a few points about the >>> nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the >>> issue. The long-time followers of this List may want to skip them >>>>>>>>> 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing >>> common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or >>> they can form a national minority. >>>>> 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of >>> the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were >>> multinational because of the presence of national minorities). >>>>> 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the >>> territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of >>> nationality by the country of birth would have been impossible. >>> Attempts to change their nationality by force were never completely >>> successful. >>>>> 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and >>> citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by >>> birth or by naturalization. >>>>> 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the >>> ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily >>> citizenship). >>>>> 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a >>> nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized >>> national minority. >>>>>>>>> That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a >>>>>>>>> well-established >>> historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, >>> history, language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language >>> literature, in the arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was >>> finally demonstrated by their recent (by historical time) >>> immigration to and integration in the country of their ancestors. >>> The latter are the vast majority; we in the New World (North >>> America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we are >>> free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors >>> made their own decisions. May they rest in peace! >>>>>>>>> Nick Tullius >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>> -- >> Syrmia Regional Coordinator >> http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia >>>> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have just one book that I got from my father titled “Werbass 1785 – 1975”, but nothing on Alt-Werbass. If anyone knows of a family book like this, please let us know. I have heritage from Neu-Werbass and Alt-Werbass. Dan Walter From: Tina Michel [mailto:tranpro@primus.ca] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 11:51 AM To: John Haumann; Andrea & Dan Walter Cc: 'dvhh' Subject: Re: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares Hi John and Dan, Any body of you - or some else - happen to know anything about the family book of Werbass, more precisely Alt-Werbass? I'm actually looking to see if any document exists on the list of the inhabitants of this town/village in the late 1700's. My ancestor was supposed to have lived there sometime before 1819 and then he moved to another village. Thank you so much. Tina Michel, Montreal, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haumann" < <mailto:haumann@earthlink.net> haumann@earthlink.net> To: "Andrea & Dan Walter" < <mailto:ajwdcw@windstream.net> ajwdcw@windstream.net> Cc: "'dvhh'" < <mailto:donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares Hello Dan, Thanks for the reply. Do you have any knowledge of an Ares HAUMANN among the descendants? Werbaß is actually just about 40 kM north (and a little east) of Palanka where my father and his six brothers and sisters were born. I am reasonably certain that they remained in Neu Palanka at least through about 1929 or 1930, but most likely remained there until the incursion of Tito's Partisans in the fall of 1944. Aside from my father, I have personal knowledge of the whereabouts of only one of his siblings (a sister and her subsequent family). Incidentally, I have been able (with considerable help from the DVHH community) to trace my HAUMANN line back to Konrad HAUMANN and Elisabeth MANTZ of Filipowa in the late 1700s. John (Hans) Haumann On Apr 30, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Andrea & Dan Walter wrote: > I have a number of Haumann's in my line, but they originate from the > Batschka region, around Werbass. > Dan Walter > > -----Original Message----- > From: <mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Haumann > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:25 AM > To: dvhh > Subject: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares > > > I am trying to determine whether HAUMANN, Ares might have been a relative on > my father's side. I have only the sketchiest of information, but I can > share what little I know. > > Ares HAUMANN died sometime in 1999, possibly in Britain, or maybe Spain or > Argentina. That's it. > > If we are related, it would likely be as first cousins (possibly a son of > one of my father's brothers). My father is HAUMANN, Stefan, b-1904 > (Palanka), d-1981 (Cleveland) > > The brothers... > HAUMANN, Johann, b-1894 > HAUMANN, Martin, b-1896 > HAUMANN, Jakob, b-1902 > HAUMANN, Andreas, b-1908 > > Not much to go on. I would appreciate any ideas. > > Thanks, > > John (Hans) Haumann > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- Aucun virus trouvé dans ce message. Analyse effectuée par AVG - <http://www.avg.fr> www.avg.fr Version: 2013.0.3469 / Base de données virale: 3722/7423 - Date: 01/05/2014

Dan, There is the possibility that the nationality of origin was assigned by the receiving official (probably based on travel documents) rather than declared by the immigrants themselves. I'm not sure that we can assume that the receiving officials would have necessarily been fluent in the various languages of the immigrants being processed. John (Hans ) Haumann On May 1, 2014, at 7:40 PM, Andrea & Dan Walter wrote: > So, I have a question. I have ancestry that came to the USA before and after > WWI and they declared themselves to be Hungarian, even though they were of > German heritage. Before the war their town, in the Batschka, was part of the > Austria-Hungarian Empire. After the war they were part of Yugoslavia. So why > did they see themselves as being Hungarian, as opposed to Austro-Hungarian > and Yugoslavian? > Dan Walter > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Berwanger > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:27 PM > To: <mjm1021@comcast.net> > Cc: donauschwaben-villages; Barbara > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German Hungarians > > Thanks........ > This pretty much describes my memories of our family too! > > Steve Berwanger > Sent from my iPad > >> On May 1, 2014, at 11:41 AM, <mjm1021@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> I never had a problem with my parents' describing themselves as > German-Hungarians once I went back and studied their history. They were > Germans who resettled in Hungary but kept their German culture mixed with > some Hungarian culture. When they came to America they shortened it to > German Americans. Their culture was still German mixed with some Hungarian. > Their descendents became Americans. >> >> Fran Matkovich >> >> Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tony Fieder >> To: Eve, Barbara Hilderson >> Cc: donauschwaben-villages >> Sent: April 30, 2014 at 5:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named >> >> Is there similar information anywhere for Batschka prisoners??? >> Didn't find my dad's name (Peter) on the site provide below? >> >> Anton Fieder >> >> >>> From: evebrown@gmail.com >>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:00:40 -0400 >>> To: bhilderson@msn.com >>> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [DVHH] Replying to posts >>>> This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard to >>>> if >>> they at least leave the last post. >>>> Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line >>>> for the >>> one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have >>> the subject lines edited. >>>> Eve >>>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson > <bhilderson@msn.com>wrote: >>>>> To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please don't > take >>>> offense; but it was very difficult to >>>> read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you > delete >>>> all other messages before replying >>>> it would make your reply easier to read. Barb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camp on the >>>>>>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an >>>>>> exhibition >>>>>>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. >>>>>>>> http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prison >>>>>>>> ers-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Dail >>>>>>>> y+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medi >>>>>>>> um=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>> to Karen, >>>>>> Thank you for the explanation as to >>>> "Our Beginnings" >>>> We should be grateful for those who went before us...... >>>> And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Diane: >>>>>> With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a >>>>>> guess that >>>> your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed >>>> during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual >>>> Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, > but not the "barbarian' >>>> Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of >>>> course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and >>>> historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which >>>> to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern >>>> Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. >>>>>> I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with >>>>>> Nick >>>> Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess >>>> real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on >>>> this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines >>>> your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic >>>> makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your >>>> story and many others described on this list as well as my own, >>>> informs this discussion totally. After your description of your >>>> conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which >>>> happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to >>>> the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most >>>> inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political >>>> one...."we were all 'Germans' then". >>>>>> It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a >>>>>> real time >>>> probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or >>>> more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all >>>> over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a >>>> peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, >>>> liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of >>>> the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. >>>> When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" >>>> hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" >>>> was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of >>>> different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, >>>> education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one >>>> Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk >>>> right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. >>>>>> None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought >>>>>> or >>>> identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole >>>> story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the >>>> appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does >>>> not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting >>>> grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that >>>> is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" >>>> identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better >>>> psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively >>>> and magnificent individually. >>>>>> There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And >>>>>> she was >>>> born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, >>>> Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, >>>> figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was >>>> genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious >>>> affiliations during her lifetime. >>>> Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I >>>> call it Fabulous!! >>>>>> Karen. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- >>>> From: MFCobb1@aol.com >>>> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >>>> To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; >>>> dvhalas@comcast.net; jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com >>>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 >>>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >>>>>> Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank >>>>>> you for >>>> the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a >>>> formal and >>>> elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both >>>> for >>>> you time and effort. >>>>>> Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb >>>> (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio >>>> (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, >>>> Austria-Hungary) >>>> Newberg Oregon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This discussion seems to never die. I put >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> togeher a few points about the >>>> nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the >>>> issue. The long-time followers of this List may want to skip them >>>>>>>>>> 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people > sharing >>>> common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or >>>> they can form a national minority. >>>>>> 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the > governments of >>>> the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were >>>> multinational because of the presence of national minorities). >>>>>> 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the >>>> territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of >>>> nationality by the country of birth would have been impossible. >>>> Attempts to change their nationality by force were never completely >>>> successful. >>>>>> 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and >>>> citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by >>>> birth or by naturalization. >>>>>> 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in > the >>>> ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily >>>> citizenship). >>>>>> 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a >>>> nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized >>>> national minority. >>>>>>>>>> That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a >>>>>>>>>> well-established >>>> historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, >>>> history, language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language >>>> literature, in the arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was >>>> finally demonstrated by their recent (by historical time) >>>> immigration to and integration in the country of their ancestors. >>>> The latter are the vast majority; we in the New World (North >>>> America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we are >>>> free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors >>>> made their own decisions. May they rest in peace! >>>>>>>>>> Nick Tullius >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>> -- >>> Syrmia Regional Coordinator >>> http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia >>>>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I never had a problem with my parents' describing themselves as German-Hungarians once I went back and studied their history. They were Germans who resettled in Hungary but kept their German culture mixed with some Hungarian culture. When they came to America they shortened it to German Americans. Their culture was still German mixed with some Hungarian. Their descendents became Americans. Fran Matkovich Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App -----Original Message----- From: Tony Fieder To: Eve, Barbara Hilderson Cc: donauschwaben-villages Sent: April 30, 2014 at 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named Is there similar information anywhere for Batschka prisoners??? Didn't find my dad's name (Peter) on the site provide below? Anton Fieder > From: evebrown@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:00:40 -0400 > To: bhilderson@msn.com > CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DVHH] Replying to posts >> This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard to if > they at least leave the last post. >> Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line for the > one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have the > subject lines edited. >> Eve >>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson <bhilderson@msn.com>wrote: >>> To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please don't take >> offense; but it was very difficult to >> read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you delete >> all other messages before replying >> it would make your reply easier to read. Barb >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the >>>>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an >>>> exhibition >>>>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. >>>>>> http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 >>>>>>>>>>> . >> to Karen, >>>> Thank you for the explanation as to >> "Our Beginnings" >> We should be grateful for those who went before us...... >> And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Diane: >>>> With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that >> your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during >> the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the >> Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' >> Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is >> a >> vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period >> in >> history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the >> geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early >> 1800s >> and going forward. >>>> I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick >> Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time >> in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I >> disagree >> with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then >> becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your >> personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as >> well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of >> your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which >> happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact >> that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive >> identity >> to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all >> 'Germans' then". >>>> It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time >> probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more >> period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater >> Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity >> that >> is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to >> the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful >> and >> productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their >> "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their >> "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge >> variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, >> education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village >> group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to >> them, speaks to that fact and informs it. >>>> None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or >> identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far >> richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a >> collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but >> rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness >> of >> ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" >> identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a >> courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent >> individually. >>>> There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was >> born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, >> Italian, >> French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the >> best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian >> and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. >> Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call >> it >> Fabulous!! >>>> Karen. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- >> From: MFCobb1@aol.com >> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >> To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; dvhalas@comcast.net; >> jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com >> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >>>> Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank you for >> the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a formal >> and >> elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both >> for >> you time and effort. >>>> Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb >> (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio >> (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, >> Austria-Hungary) >> Newberg Oregon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This discussion seems to never die. I put togeher a few points about the >> nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the issue. The >> long-time followers of this List may want to skip them >>>>>>>> 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing >> common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or they >> can form a national minority. >>>> 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of >> the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were >> multinational because of the presence of national minorities). >>>> 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the >> territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of nationality >> by the country of birth would have been impossible. Attempts to change >> their >> nationality by force were never completely successful. >>>> 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and >> citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by birth or by >> naturalization. >>>> 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the >> ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily >> citizenship). >>>> 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a >> nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized >> national >> minority. >>>>>>>> That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a well-established >> historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, history, >> language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language literature, in >> the >> arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was finally demonstrated by >> their recent (by historical time) immigration to and integration in the >> country of their ancestors. The latter are the vast majority; we in the New >> World (North America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we >> are free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors >> made >> their own decisions. May they rest in peace! >>>>>>>> Nick Tullius >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> -- > Syrmia Regional Coordinator > http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia >>> ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks........ This pretty much describes my memories of our family too! Steve Berwanger Sent from my iPad > On May 1, 2014, at 11:41 AM, <mjm1021@comcast.net> wrote: > > I never had a problem with my parents' describing themselves as German-Hungarians once I went back and studied their history. They were Germans who resettled in Hungary but kept their German culture mixed with some Hungarian culture. When they came to America they shortened it to German Americans. Their culture was still German mixed with some Hungarian. Their descendents became Americans. > > Fran Matkovich > > Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Fieder > To: Eve, Barbara Hilderson > Cc: donauschwaben-villages > Sent: April 30, 2014 at 5:08 PM > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > > Is there similar information anywhere for Batschka prisoners??? > Didn't find my dad's name (Peter) on the site provide below? > > Anton Fieder > > >> From: evebrown@gmail.com >> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:00:40 -0400 >> To: bhilderson@msn.com >> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [DVHH] Replying to posts >>> This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard to if >> they at least leave the last post. >>> Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line for the >> one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have the >> subject lines edited. >>> Eve >>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson <bhilderson@msn.com>wrote: >>>> To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please don't take >>> offense; but it was very difficult to >>> read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you delete >>> all other messages before replying >>> it would make your reply easier to read. Barb >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the >>>>>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an >>>>> exhibition >>>>>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. >>>>>>> http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>> to Karen, >>>>> Thank you for the explanation as to >>> "Our Beginnings" >>> We should be grateful for those who went before us...... >>> And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Diane: >>>>> With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that >>> your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during >>> the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the >>> Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' >>> Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is >>> a >>> vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period >>> in >>> history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the >>> geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early >>> 1800s >>> and going forward. >>>>> I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick >>> Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time >>> in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I >>> disagree >>> with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then >>> becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your >>> personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as >>> well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of >>> your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which >>> happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact >>> that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive >>> identity >>> to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all >>> 'Germans' then". >>>>> It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time >>> probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more >>> period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater >>> Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity >>> that >>> is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to >>> the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful >>> and >>> productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their >>> "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their >>> "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge >>> variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, >>> education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village >>> group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to >>> them, speaks to that fact and informs it. >>>>> None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or >>> identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far >>> richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a >>> collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but >>> rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness >>> of >>> ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" >>> identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a >>> courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent >>> individually. >>>>> There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was >>> born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, >>> Italian, >>> French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the >>> best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian >>> and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. >>> Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call >>> it >>> Fabulous!! >>>>> Karen. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- >>> From: MFCobb1@aol.com >>> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >>> To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; dvhalas@comcast.net; >>> jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com >>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >>>>> Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank you for >>> the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a formal >>> and >>> elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both >>> for >>> you time and effort. >>>>> Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb >>> (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio >>> (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, >>> Austria-Hungary) >>> Newberg Oregon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This discussion seems to never die. I put togeher a few points about the >>> nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the issue. The >>> long-time followers of this List may want to skip them >>>>>>>>> 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing >>> common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or they >>> can form a national minority. >>>>> 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of >>> the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were >>> multinational because of the presence of national minorities). >>>>> 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the >>> territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of nationality >>> by the country of birth would have been impossible. Attempts to change >>> their >>> nationality by force were never completely successful. >>>>> 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and >>> citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by birth or by >>> naturalization. >>>>> 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the >>> ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily >>> citizenship). >>>>> 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a >>> nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized >>> national >>> minority. >>>>>>>>> That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a well-established >>> historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, history, >>> language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language literature, in >>> the >>> arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was finally demonstrated by >>> their recent (by historical time) immigration to and integration in the >>> country of their ancestors. The latter are the vast majority; we in the New >>> World (North America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we >>> are free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors >>> made >>> their own decisions. May they rest in peace! >>>>>>>>> Nick Tullius >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>> -- >> Syrmia Regional Coordinator >> http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia >>>> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi John and Dan, Any body of you - or some else - happen to know anything about the family book of Werbass, more precisely Alt-Werbass? I'm actually looking to see if any document exists on the list of the inhabitants of this town/village in the late 1700's. My ancestor was supposed to have lived there sometime before 1819 and then he moved to another village. Thank you so much. Tina Michel, Montreal, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haumann" <haumann@earthlink.net> To: "Andrea & Dan Walter" <ajwdcw@windstream.net> Cc: "'dvhh'" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares Hello Dan, Thanks for the reply. Do you have any knowledge of an Ares HAUMANN among the descendants? Werbaß is actually just about 40 kM north (and a little east) of Palanka where my father and his six brothers and sisters were born. I am reasonably certain that they remained in Neu Palanka at least through about 1929 or 1930, but most likely remained there until the incursion of Tito's Partisans in the fall of 1944. Aside from my father, I have personal knowledge of the whereabouts of only one of his siblings (a sister and her subsequent family). Incidentally, I have been able (with considerable help from the DVHH community) to trace my HAUMANN line back to Konrad HAUMANN and Elisabeth MANTZ of Filipowa in the late 1700s. John (Hans) Haumann On Apr 30, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Andrea & Dan Walter wrote: > I have a number of Haumann's in my line, but they originate from the > Batschka region, around Werbass. > Dan Walter > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Haumann > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:25 AM > To: dvhh > Subject: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares > > > I am trying to determine whether HAUMANN, Ares might have been a relative on > my father's side. I have only the sketchiest of information, but I can > share what little I know. > > Ares HAUMANN died sometime in 1999, possibly in Britain, or maybe Spain or > Argentina. That's it. > > If we are related, it would likely be as first cousins (possibly a son of > one of my father's brothers). My father is HAUMANN, Stefan, b-1904 > (Palanka), d-1981 (Cleveland) > > The brothers... > HAUMANN, Johann, b-1894 > HAUMANN, Martin, b-1896 > HAUMANN, Jakob, b-1902 > HAUMANN, Andreas, b-1908 > > Not much to go on. I would appreciate any ideas. > > Thanks, > > John (Hans) Haumann > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- Aucun virus trouvé dans ce message. Analyse effectuée par AVG - www.avg.fr Version: 2013.0.3469 / Base de données virale: 3722/7423 - Date: 01/05/2014

Roger, Wow - Thank you for that information and link about the existence of an active German Club in Buffalo!! I looked into their calendar of events and may actually get to attend the German Heritage Festival since I have tentative plans to visit my parents and siblings over Labor Day weekend. It would be great fun to go with them and hear their Buffalo Schwaben Chorperform!! I also see that the Bergholz Blaskapelle is scheduled to perform that weekend. My paternal ancestors immigrated from Prussia and lived mostly in the old German settlements of St.Johnsburg and Bergholz, Town of Wheatfield, (north of Buffalo) starting in 1843. Thanks again! Linda On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 11:07 AM, ROGER WARD <hummrhaven@verizon.net> wrote: > In the Buffalo area there are still German clubs, that may offer > information on relatives, linked under the web page of > WWW.BuffaloGerman.com with calenders of events mainly held south of > Buffalo, in Hamburg or Cheektowaga. > The Buffalo Schwaben Chor performs at the big German Heritage Festival is > held on Labor Day weekend, which I have yet to attend. > Unfortunately, the distance from my home on Lake Ontario (NY ) & age, > makes that difficult. > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Linda Jaspersen <ljaspersen@gmail.com>; > * To: * ROGER WARD <hummrhaven@verizon.net>; > * Cc: * DVHH <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com>; > * Subject: * Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe > * Sent: * Sun, Apr 27, 2014 2:40:04 PM > > Hi Roger, > > This whole discussion about Alsace-Lorraine has encouraged a broader > perspective and the need to think about the possibility that our > German-speaking ancestors might have originated in many other areas. > > For example, one of my main 4 maternal surnames is FIALA, which can be > traced back to the 1700's in the Banat. Whenever I've googled that family > surname, I came up with many Italian responses! Truthfully, the name > doesn't sound typically German, but I never questioned it because they > spoke German in the home and identified themselves as of German heritage > from Austria-Hungary... I realize now that I have no idea where they > originally came from before arriving in the Banat many generations ago. > This genealogy search and discussion is continually turning up many > surprising insights which will hopefully lead to some new discoveries for > all of us. > > Thank you everyone, > > Linda > > > On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 9:21 AM, ROGER WARD <hummrhaven@verizon.net>wrote: > >> >> As little research I have done on the Treis/Tries family, the first clue >> I saw was on maps showing a twin city in the Lorraine area called >> Treis-Karden! >> That part of my family migrated from the Banat to Buffalo, NY, into the >> Black Rock German section of that city, in 1907. So how, I wonder, did that >> last name come about? Were they related to the people who founded that town >> around the Moselle region? I should not jump to that until I begin to trace >> down more immediate ancestors, and the immigration info is all I have to >> start with. As so many ethnic Germans did, my mother and her siblings were >> proud Americans, speaking only German in my grandparent's home. >> Yet the name being Treis seems to be such a clue to their origin! >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 1:16 PM EDT Daniel HILAIRE wrote: >> >> >John, >> >Most of people coming from Alsace-Lorraine (in fact, Lorraine), didn't >> speak german when they arrived in Banat; they were speaking only french and >> same for their children; but, as the local administration, the army, >> sometimes the boys or the girls they married, were speaking german, they >> had to speak german and finally they lost their french language; so, >> 120-130 years after, when they arrived to US, they were speaking only >> german until... 120 years after, their descendants speak english and very >> few are able to speak german!Another point : Lorraine was not a part of >> France until 1766Last point : Germany, as a state, didn't exist before >> 1871; to obtain this, Bismark had to fight against Austria in 1866 (and >> again the french in 1870). So, there was no "german from Austria-Hungary". >> >But, as another member of the group explained very well a couple of days >> ago, it's too difficult for a Banater Schwaben to explain who he is really; >> so, let's people from Lorraine, speaking french, become... German from >> Austria. >> >Hope you'll pardon me for these points. >> >Bonne journée >> >Daniel Hilaire, Bordeaux >> > >> > >> > >> > From: jfschambre@comcast.net >> > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:53:15 -0700 >> > To: ljaspersen@gmail.com >> > CC: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com >> > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe >> > >> > Linda: It is possible your family came from Alsace-Lorraine France >> where so many German speaking people lived and migrated to the Banat. I >> thought my family came from Germany too because, like yours, they always >> said they were German from Austria-Hungary. Well, they were German and, >> once they moved to the Banat, they were Austro-Hungarians but before that, >> probably back in the late 1600's or throughout the 1700 and 1800's they may >> have lived in France. It was quite a revelation to me. >> > >> > Interestingly, my family had relatives in Buffalo and Tonawanda too! >> Their family names were Bishop and Stetzer and, unfortunately I haven't >> been able to find out much about them. I remember them visiting us in >> Mansfield, Ohio (my home town) but we never went to New York to see them. >> So many mysteries to uncover! >> > >> > Best of luck in your research! >> > >> > John F. Schambre >> > San Francisco, CA >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Apr 24, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Linda Jaspersen <ljaspersen@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > > Rose - Thank you for starting this very informative thread! The >> heritage >> > > postings have been fascinating! I have enjoyed reading them all - >> trying to >> > > catch up after the busy Easter holiday. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Jody and other DVHH listees - I can relate to the many comments about >> > > little information offered by our Donauschwab ancestors. Perhaps they >> were >> > > too busy struggling to support their families, learn English, and >> adapt to >> > > a radically new life in their adopted country. And in my case... I >> also >> > > regret not asking the questions that might have triggered more >> sharing of >> > > oral history before my grandparents died. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Brief background for those interested: My maternal grandparents were >> born >> > > in Glogowatz, as were their parents and grandparents, etc., to the >> 1700’s, >> > > according to Erwin Kilzheimer’s wonderful Familienbuch. My GF >> immigrant to >> > > Buffalo, New York, as a teenager in 1909, age 13; his widowed mother >> (my GGM) >> > > immigrated in 1907, age 33. My GM immigrated to Tonawanda, New York, >> in >> > > 1914, age 12 years; her father had previously immigrated in 1906 & >> 1910, >> > > and returned to Glogowatz for the last time in 1914 to accompany his >> wife >> > > and 4 remaining children. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > There is still an active Hungarian Club in Buffalo, but no >> > > Donauschwabclub. My mother states that her parents and older sister >> > > went to the German >> > > club but that it closed during WWII and never reopened. There was >> distrust >> > > and fear at the time; many of the neighbors’ sons were soldiers >> fighting >> > > overseas. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > When my immigrant grandparents talked about “the old country” as they >> > > called it, they always spoke of themselves as Germans from >> Austria-Hungary, >> > > never mentioning either the Banat or Donauschwaben. One of my huge >> brick >> > > walls is trying to learn where in Germany my ancestors emigrated from >> in >> > > the 1700’s. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find them in the >> > > Stadervolumes. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > All these postings and the information provided on the DVHH site have >> been >> > > a wonderful gift of discovery! There is always something new to learn, >> > > particularly from listers with family memories of what life was like >> in the >> > > Banat for both the people who stayed and those who emigrated. >> > > >> > > >> > > Thank You All, >> > > >> > > >> > > Linda >> > > >> > > >> > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Jody McKim Pharr >> <jodymckimpharr@comcast >> > > .net> wrote: >> > > >> > > Tina, -- First or second marriage, you're still the daughter of a >> Schwowe. >> > > Barb, -- My family who immigrated to the US lived like they were in >> the >> > > witness protection program. They would barely talk about anything. >> Papa >> > > would tell his kids (my grandmother and siblings) to speak English >> "You are >> > > in America now!". It wasn't until 1999 when I started my family >> research >> > > quest. It wasn’t easy figuring out all the answers to my questions >> after >> > > those who had the answers had passed away. Because of our wonderful >> and >> > > knowledgeable DVHH volunteers, it all fell in place. >> > > >> > > This list and DVHH volunteers love genealogical digs, so if you have >> brick >> > > walls, post it onto the mail list. >> > > Note: If anyone helps you privately from the list, pass it back to the >> > > entire mail list, it's the only way others who wish to help can know >> where >> > > you are at in your search. >> > > >> > > Thanks for sharing, >> > > >> > > Jody McKim Pharr >> > > Woodstock, GA - USA >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: >> > > donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tina Michel >> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 3:11 PM >> > > To: Barb D; DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com >> > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe >> > > >> > > I have the same feeling as you Barb. Although my father kept on >> telling >> > > us about the good eating and all the things that were done in and >> around >> > > his village, I took everything for granted instead of asking why and >> how. >> > > Also, we spoke several german dialects at home, but I never asked my >> > > father why he would speak schwowisch and not better Hochdeutsch >> (Academic >> > > German). >> > > >> > > I was the youngest child of his second marriage, but I'm the only one >> with >> > > a sense of belonging to his community and his past, and sure enough >> with a >> > > need to dig and find out more. >> > > >> > > With kind regards, >> > > >> > > Tina Michel, >> > > Montreal >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Barb D" <bbd2424@gmail.com> >> > > To: "SusanM" <soozn_6@yahoo.com>; < >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 2:24 PM >> > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe >> > > >> > > >> > > I agree!!!! This has been fun and very informative. I hope it keeps >> up. I >> > > am >> > > getting the feel for how my grandparents and families lived and died. >> So >> > > many question to go and I will probably never have the answers to >> most. I >> > > am >> > > not even sure how to know if we are Donauschwaben or not. >> > > I wish I had some stories to tell but it was my grandparents who >> lived in >> > > DSM. and they didn't talk a lot about the old country even to their >> kids >> > > (sometimes with their old country friends) or maybe we weren't paying >> > > enough attention to remember. All I can tell you is I wish I had had >> the >> > > foresight to ask or listen better. >> > > So keep the info coming please! If there is anything I can do to help >> let >> > > me >> > > know. I live in a suburb of Chicago, Il. >> > > Thanks so much for all info and help! >> > > Barb D. >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: SusanM >> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 11:36 AM >> > > To: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com >> > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Donauschwaben and Schwowe >> > > >> > > I just wanted to say how much I have appreciated this discussion. It >> has >> > > been so interesting, and now I want to go back and hunt the archives. >> I'm >> > > not sure what search terms to use though. Anyway, I wanted to say >> thanks >> > > to >> > > people who have written on this thread. I'm fascinated. >> > > >> > > >> > > Susan M >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > >> >------------------------------- >> >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

The following feedback was sent by Craig Schulz (craigzwhiz@aol.com) via the www.dvhh.org Contact page: Nick, what is the church for people of the village of Beodra about 1830? I can\'t find one. DVHH-L Subscriber: N IP Address: 65.189.50.51

Hello Dan, Thanks for the reply. Do you have any knowledge of an Ares HAUMANN among the descendants? Werbaß is actually just about 40 kM north (and a little east) of Palanka where my father and his six brothers and sisters were born. I am reasonably certain that they remained in Neu Palanka at least through about 1929 or 1930, but most likely remained there until the incursion of Tito's Partisans in the fall of 1944. Aside from my father, I have personal knowledge of the whereabouts of only one of his siblings (a sister and her subsequent family). Incidentally, I have been able (with considerable help from the DVHH community) to trace my HAUMANN line back to Konrad HAUMANN and Elisabeth MANTZ of Filipowa in the late 1700s. John (Hans) Haumann On Apr 30, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Andrea & Dan Walter wrote: > I have a number of Haumann's in my line, but they originate from the > Batschka region, around Werbass. > Dan Walter > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Haumann > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:25 AM > To: dvhh > Subject: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares > > > I am trying to determine whether HAUMANN, Ares might have been a relative on > my father's side. I have only the sketchiest of information, but I can > share what little I know. > > Ares HAUMANN died sometime in 1999, possibly in Britain, or maybe Spain or > Argentina. That's it. > > If we are related, it would likely be as first cousins (possibly a son of > one of my father's brothers). My father is HAUMANN, Stefan, b-1904 > (Palanka), d-1981 (Cleveland) > > The brothers... > HAUMANN, Johann, b-1894 > HAUMANN, Martin, b-1896 > HAUMANN, Jakob, b-1902 > HAUMANN, Andreas, b-1908 > > Not much to go on. I would appreciate any ideas. > > Thanks, > > John (Hans) Haumann > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

The nationality of the Donauschwaben is very very confusing. Especially if you were not there. So a Donauschwab who actually lived there (like Nick Tullius), knows things better. And he has a better understanding of how changes took place. The borderlines were constantly changing and the countries were changing. And therefore, you could not (can not) determine nationality by country of birth. I was born in the United States. I am an American citizen. But that is not my nationality. When people ask me my nationality I tell them I am Donauschwaben, then they give me a funny look and I explain that my family is ethnic Germans who lived in Yugoslavia and they are from the Austro-Hungarian Empire. And then I show them my Kaiser Franz Josef ring that I proudly wear. And they say "Oh!".....My dad was born in Zemun in 1930 when it was called the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. My paternal grandfather was born in the same house in Zemun in 1900 and it was called Austro Hungary. And my great grandfather was born in the very same house in Zemun when it was called the state of Croatia. The Yugoslavs called them Schwabos back then. German always was their first language. A Donauschwab is a Donauschwab. A German ethnic group which also is called Volksdeutsch. Donauschwaben are colonists who colonized along the Danube. They came from Schwabenland. A Serb, or Croatian, or Italian, Russian, or Hungarian cannot be a Schwab. -----Original Message----- From: Nick Tullius <ntullius@rogers.com> This discussion seems to never die. I put togeher a few points about the nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the issue. The long-time followers of this List may want to skip them 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or they can form a national minority. 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were multinational because of the presence of national minorities). 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of nationality by the country of birth would have been impossible. Attempts to change their nationality by force were never completely successful. 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by birth or by naturalization. 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily citizenship). 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized national minority. That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a well-established historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, history, language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language literature, in the arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was finally demonstrated by their recent (by historical time) immigration to and integration in the country of their ancestors. The latter are the vast majority; we in the New World (North America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we are free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors made their own decisions. May they rest in peace! Nick Tullius -----Original Message----- From:islandkaren Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent individually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it Fabulous!! Karen.

Dear list members, Just a friendly reminder to those who are subscribed to multiple mail lists - please be sure and address your posts separately for each mail list you are sending it to. When you send one to this mail list and include another mail list in the address someone hitting reply all will be sending to a mail list they are not subscribed to. I have been getting quite a few on these in the administration box that belong to another mail list and I'm sure the other mail lists are getting the same. Not a problem to post to more than one mail list, but please post them separately. Thanks, -- DVHH mail list co-administrator Eve Brown

I have a number of Haumann's in my line, but they originate from the Batschka region, around Werbass. Dan Walter -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Haumann Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:25 AM To: dvhh Subject: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares I am trying to determine whether HAUMANN, Ares might have been a relative on my father's side. I have only the sketchiest of information, but I can share what little I know. Ares HAUMANN died sometime in 1999, possibly in Britain, or maybe Spain or Argentina. That's it. If we are related, it would likely be as first cousins (possibly a son of one of my father's brothers). My father is HAUMANN, Stefan, b-1904 (Palanka), d-1981 (Cleveland) The brothers... HAUMANN, Johann, b-1894 HAUMANN, Martin, b-1896 HAUMANN, Jakob, b-1902 HAUMANN, Andreas, b-1908 Not much to go on. I would appreciate any ideas. Thanks, John (Hans) Haumann ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Barb D. I agree with your perspective. There is so much to learn about our heritage, and I would hate to miss any of it. I know there are a lot of messages, but any lister can file these messages into any personal folder they create, or delete if totally uninteresting to them. I have learned so much about my Donauschwaben heritage through this site. Thanks to all who post! Dan S On Apr 30, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Barb D <bbd2424@gmail.com> wrote: > SORRY ! I guess I disagree, because I find that all this info is our > HERITAGE and one thing can lead to another. > Barb D > > -----Original Message----- > From: Margaret Chrusciel > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 4:18 PM > To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DVHH] "All" List > > Hello, > I joined this mailing list to learn more about my heritage. What I am seeing > on some of these messages is really mind boggling but I'm wondering if there > is a better way for these messages to be group for those interested in the > subjects being discussed? Anyone know if a way to organize by subject? Then > if someone us interested they can get those messages and not have to weed > through all of these and the responses to them. > Thank you > > Peggy Chrusciel > > Sent from my iPhone > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It takes quite some time to load. The page appears blank with no sign of anything happening but suddenly it appears. Gaby Sent from my iPad > On 30 Apr 2014, at 8:49 am, mep <res00fr1@gmail.com> wrote: > > Has to be me... or my ISP. cannot select anything with any of my > browsers... > > I will have to try another machine. > > Thanks everyone > > > >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Harold <bhbrat24@q.com> wrote: >> >> Works fine with Google chrome also, Harold >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul Kurst" <pgkurst@gmail.com> >> To: "Rita Schiwanowitsch" <schiwanore@msn.com> >> Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:16:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] [BANAT-L] Fw: >> >> The link works fine with my Firefox. This is the link to the actual site >> that lists the names - http://goliotok.uimenaroda.net/ >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Rita Schiwanowitsch <schiwanore@msn.com >>> wrote: >> >>> I guess I am late hearing about Microsoft's problem, because that is what >>> I am using. When I get home tonight, I will post another way of >> accessing >>> the info. >>> >>> >>> >>> Rita >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:27:24 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Fw: >>> From: res00fr1@gmail.com >>> To: schiwanore@msn.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Rita, >>> >>> Thank you for the link but it seems to be unresponsive. None of the >>> controls do anything. Is there a secret to getting any info from the >> sight. >>> >>> I am using Microsoft's advice and not using Internet Explorer until their >>> bug is fixed so I am using the Firefox browser. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 5:15 AM, Rita Schiwanowitsch <schiwanore@msn.com >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named >>> >>> >>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the >>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an >> exhibition >>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. >> http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peggy, I'm always up for learning a different way to access information, but I'm not sure that would work. I know, for me, there have many times when I pick up on some bit of info. in someone's post that I would have missed if I couldn't look at all the postings--just a thought. Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb (Formerly of Mansfield, OH) Newberg, Oregon In a message dated 4/30/2014 2:20:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, spec.angel65@sbcglobal.net writes: Hello, I joined this mailing list to learn more about my heritage. What I am seeing on some of these messages is really mind boggling but I'm wondering if there is a better way for these messages to be group for those interested in the subjects being discussed? Anyone know if a way to organize by subject? Then if someone us interested they can get those messages and not have to weed through all of these and the responses to them. Thank you Peggy Chrusciel Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is there similar information anywhere for Batschka prisoners??? Didn't find my dad's name (Peter) on the site provide below? Anton Fieder > From: evebrown@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:00:40 -0400 > To: bhilderson@msn.com > CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DVHH] Replying to posts > > This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard to if > they at least leave the last post. > > Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line for the > one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have the > subject lines edited. > > Eve > > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson <bhilderson@msn.com>wrote: > > > To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please don't take > > offense; but it was very difficult to > > read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you delete > > all other messages before replying > > it would make your reply easier to read. Barb > > > > > > > > > > >>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the > > >>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an > > >> exhibition > > >>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. > > >> > > http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 > > >>> > > > > > > . > > to Karen, > > > > Thank you for the explanation as to > > "Our Beginnings" > > We should be grateful for those who went before us...... > > And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Diane: > > > > With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that > > your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during > > the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the > > Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' > > Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is > > a > > vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period > > in > > history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the > > geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early > > 1800s > > and going forward. > > > > I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick > > Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time > > in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I > > disagree > > with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then > > becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your > > personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as > > well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of > > your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which > > happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact > > that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive > > identity > > to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all > > 'Germans' then". > > > > It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time > > probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more > > period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater > > Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity > > that > > is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to > > the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful > > and > > productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their > > "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their > > "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge > > variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, > > education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village > > group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to > > them, speaks to that fact and informs it. > > > > None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or > > identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far > > richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a > > collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but > > rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness > > of > > ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" > > identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a > > courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent > > individually. > > > > There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was > > born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, > > Italian, > > French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the > > best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian > > and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. > > Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call > > it > > Fabulous!! > > > > Karen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Forwarded Message Attachment-- > > From: MFCobb1@aol.com > > CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > > To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; dvhalas@comcast.net; > > jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com > > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > > > Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank you for > > the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a formal > > and > > elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both > > for > > you time and effort. > > > > Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb > > (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio > > (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, > > Austria-Hungary) > > Newberg Oregon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This discussion seems to never die. I put togeher a few points about the > > nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the issue. The > > long-time followers of this List may want to skip them > > > > > > > > 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing > > common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or they > > can form a national minority. > > > > 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of > > the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were > > multinational because of the presence of national minorities). > > > > 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the > > territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of nationality > > by the country of birth would have been impossible. Attempts to change > > their > > nationality by force were never completely successful. > > > > 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and > > citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by birth or by > > naturalization. > > > > 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the > > ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily > > citizenship). > > > > 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a > > nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized > > national > > minority. > > > > > > > > That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a well-established > > historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, history, > > language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language literature, in > > the > > arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was finally demonstrated by > > their recent (by historical time) immigration to and integration in the > > country of their ancestors. The latter are the vast majority; we in the New > > World (North America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we > > are free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors > > made > > their own decisions. May they rest in peace! > > > > > > > > Nick Tullius > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > Syrmia Regional Coordinator > http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard to if they at least leave the last post. Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line for the one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have the subject lines edited. Eve On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson <bhilderson@msn.com>wrote: > To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please don't take > offense; but it was very difficult to > read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you delete > all other messages before replying > it would make your reply easier to read. Barb > > > > > >>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > >>> > >>> > >>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the > >>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an > >> exhibition > >>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. > >> > http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 > >>> > > > . > to Karen, > > Thank you for the explanation as to > "Our Beginnings" > We should be grateful for those who went before us...... > And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Diane: > > With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that > your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during > the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the > Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' > Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is > a > vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period > in > history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the > geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early > 1800s > and going forward. > > I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick > Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time > in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I > disagree > with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then > becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your > personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as > well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of > your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which > happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact > that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive > identity > to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all > 'Germans' then". > > It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time > probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more > period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater > Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity > that > is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to > the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful > and > productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their > "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their > "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge > variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, > education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village > group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to > them, speaks to that fact and informs it. > > None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or > identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far > richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a > collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but > rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness > of > ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" > identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a > courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent > individually. > > There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was > born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, > Italian, > French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the > best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian > and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. > Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call > it > Fabulous!! > > Karen. > > > > > > > > > > --Forwarded Message Attachment-- > From: MFCobb1@aol.com > CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; dvhalas@comcast.net; > jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank you for > the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a formal > and > elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both > for > you time and effort. > > Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb > (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio > (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, > Austria-Hungary) > Newberg Oregon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This discussion seems to never die. I put togeher a few points about the > nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the issue. The > long-time followers of this List may want to skip them > > > > 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing > common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or they > can form a national minority. > > 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of > the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were > multinational because of the presence of national minorities). > > 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the > territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of nationality > by the country of birth would have been impossible. Attempts to change > their > nationality by force were never completely successful. > > 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and > citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by birth or by > naturalization. > > 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the > ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily > citizenship). > > 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a > nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized > national > minority. > > > > That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a well-established > historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, history, > language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language literature, in > the > arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was finally demonstrated by > their recent (by historical time) immigration to and integration in the > country of their ancestors. The latter are the vast majority; we in the New > World (North America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we > are free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors > made > their own decisions. May they rest in peace! > > > > Nick Tullius > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Syrmia Regional Coordinator http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia

A very good explanation and very well put, I think I can offer a bit of perspective on why Nick Tullis would say that your native tongue determined your ethnicity -- From all the stories I was told this was the driving factor for the persecution of the DS.people because their native tongue was German. My mother's family (Michera, Stark) come from a small town outside of Belgrade in what is now Serbia named Karlsdorf. She went to School and only learned German even though there were Serbs and other ethnic groups also in the town. When the Russians and Partisans came to pilage the towns, they went to the German speaking homes even though these families had settled here so many years before.In my mother's family there is Beohemian and Hungarian (Kalitovich, Horwath) but the key factor that distinguished these folks is that their native language was German. In a simalar fashion my father (Heiberger, Hanner) is from a small town in Croatia --- Drenje. He went to school and learned Croation but at home they spoke German. This did not stop the cleansing from his town either as they were identified as German. I am a first Generation American -- in all the stories I heard growing up from my parents, Oma's and Ota's, and family and friends the fact that DS was identified by their native language, that being German. Where in truth by the time of 1900's many of these families had many ethnicities in their family tree but the distingushing factor always being native language as German.even if they spoke Croation, Serbish, Hungarian etc.... And I am always in awe of these peoples who lost everything, endured such hardships and still found the courage to not only survive but thrive. I have the most wonderful memories of them and the sacrifices they made so my life would be better. I'm sure I'm not alone in that feeling. -----Original Message----- From: Barb D <bbd2424@gmail.com> To: islandkaren <islandkaren@bellsouth.net>; Diane Halas <dvhalas@comcast.net>; 'John Schambre' <jfschambre@comcast.net>; 'Eileen Simcox' <easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: donauschwaben-villages <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 30, 2014 2:03 pm Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Karen, hat was so FABULOUSLY said!!!!!!! I am 2 generationS removed and it help ut things in the proper perspective . I hope everyone will see it the same ay hanks, arb Dannenbeg -----Original Message----- rom: islandkaren ent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:24 PM o: Diane Halas ; 'John Schambre' ; 'Eileen Simcox' c: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com ubject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that our Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during he short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the ustrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' ungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a ast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in istory, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the eographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s nd going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick ullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time n the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree ith him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then ecomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your ersonal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as ell as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of our conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which appens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact hat in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity o have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time robability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more eriod were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater urope and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that s universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to he vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and roductive. When you look closely you come to discover that their ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge ariety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, ducation attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village roup could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to hem, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or dentified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far icher and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a ollective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but ather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of deal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" dentity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a ourage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent ndividually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was orn a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, rench, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the est of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian nd practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. hen...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it abulous!! Karen. ---- Original Message ----- rom: "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net> o: "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" easimcox@gmail.com> c: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> ent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM ubject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher who in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified their primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine and her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. Diane Diane Halas 239-592-9969 -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Schambre Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM To: Eileen Simcox Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Hi Eileen: Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always told me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that I am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the tests too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect my maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European roots come from. Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area but I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching English records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I might have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed have British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't worry too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We are German! Period! :-)) All the best in your research. John John F. Schambre San Francisco, CA On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox <easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined > DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? > I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've > felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I > would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . > > Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der > Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four > grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. > > I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which > should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, > Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at > the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify the results or negate them . . . > I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated > that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA testing? > > Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a > fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from > her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating > at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel > dough for poppy seed strudel! :( > > Thank you, > Eileen Gauder Simcox > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' ithout the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please don't take offense; but it was very difficult to read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you delete all other messages before replying it would make your reply easier to read. Barb >>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named >>> >>> >>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the >>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an >> exhibition >>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. >> http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 >>> . to Karen, Thank you for the explanation as to "Our Beginnings" We should be grateful for those who went before us...... And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent individually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it Fabulous!! Karen. --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: MFCobb1@aol.com CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; dvhalas@comcast.net; jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank you for the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a formal and elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both for you time and effort. Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, Austria-Hungary) Newberg Oregon This discussion seems to never die. I put togeher a few points about the nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the issue. The long-time followers of this List may want to skip them 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or they can form a national minority. 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were multinational because of the presence of national minorities). 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of nationality by the country of birth would have been impossible. Attempts to change their nationality by force were never completely successful. 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by birth or by naturalization. 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily citizenship). 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized national minority. That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a well-established historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, history, language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language literature, in the arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was finally demonstrated by their recent (by historical time) immigration to and integration in the country of their ancestors. The latter are the vast majority; we in the New World (North America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we are free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors made their own decisions. May they rest in peace! Nick Tullius >

SORRY ! I guess I disagree, because I find that all this info is our HERITAGE and one thing can lead to another. Barb D -----Original Message----- From: Margaret Chrusciel Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 4:18 PM To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: [DVHH] "All" List Hello, I joined this mailing list to learn more about my heritage. What I am seeing on some of these messages is really mind boggling but I'm wondering if there is a better way for these messages to be group for those interested in the subjects being discussed? Anyone know if a way to organize by subject? Then if someone us interested they can get those messages and not have to weed through all of these and the responses to them. Thank you Peggy Chrusciel Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message