Well you know one now. -----Original Message----- From: "Helga Kiely" <kandhkiely@rogers.com> Sent: ‎5/‎6/‎2014 10:18 AM To: "Rose Vetter" <rosevetter@gmail.com> Cc: "DVHH-L" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish Amen! Ashamed?? No never! Thanks for the supportRose. Sent from Helga's Ipad > On May 5, 2014, at 9:23 PM, Rose Vetter <rosevetter@gmail.com> wrote: > > I can only speak for some of my relatives who were either in camps or were > deported to the mines in Russia, but I never knew any of them to be > ashamed. Why would anyone be ashamed for being imprisoned or enslaved > innocently? My grandparents died in the forced labour camp > Altker/Pasicevo. They were peaceful, god-fearing people who had never > harmed anyone. They were too frail to join us on our flight, so they > stayed home with their youngest daughter. On November 30, 1944 they were > driven out of their home at gunpoint, herded together and forced to spend > the night outside in the freezing rain. The next day they had to walk 40 > km to the camp. My grandfather, suffering from asthma and a heart > condition, collapsed and was thrown on a wagon like a sack; eight days > later he was dead. My grandmother died there 2½ years later and my aunt > lived to tell their story, but she was not ashamed. One of my aunts died > in Gakowa and another in Jarek, but I doubt very much that they were > ashamed. > > There were probably several reasons some of our people didn't want to say > they were Schwowe or Donauschwaben. Offhand these come to mind: a) the > memories were too painful, b) they did not want to dwell on the past, c) it > was too difficult to explain to outsiders, d) they were suffering from the > collective guilt syndrome imposed on all people inside and outside of > Germany, and d) they were happy to have survived, did not want to dwell on > the past and were looking ahead to building a new life. But ashamed? No, > never! > > Rose > > >> On 5 May 2014 15:21, Jody McKim Pharr <jodymckimpharr@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> Bravo Gary! >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: >> donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gary Banzhaf >> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:26 PM >> To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish >> >> >> Schwovish, Schwaebisch, Donauschwaben, Volksdeutsche, Reichsdeutsche - >> even the word "Nazis" is used !!! >> Waking up this morning I said to myself: Gary keep out, this discusion is >> getting to hot. It is where everyone wants to present their knowledge what >> we are and who we are: the one said he is glad not to be German - well, let >> him be Ukrainian or Armenian, he still participates in a forum of >> Donauschwaben who basically and by majority are Germans, whether they >> intermarried or not. >> They are in the eyes of Germany "Auslandsdeutsche" - Germans living on >> foreign soil. >> This word is fearfully used by group members of the first or second >> generation immigrants of North America. >> Only one gutsy post I have read on Friday 5/2. The list member - no >> functional Director - uses ethnicity; the term for ethnic German-s: "lit. >> Germans living outside Germany": for instance in South America, Australia >> or even Cape town, South Africa etc. >> The DS memory is traumatic, they hated us for being on their land - and >> they wanted to exterminate us with hate and when I later asked a former >> associate: why ? he answered: "may be you didn't belong down there anyhow." >> No wrong doing we did, just trying to save us from approaching evil. No, I >> wasn't in Gakowa, Jarek or Valpovo. But lets not "Jammer" (live in misery) >> for ever. The many memorials permittet now by the State of Serbia are for >> our ancestors dear to us, whom we left 'down there' and they should never >> be forgotten ! >> I do not have any other expression or explanation of who we are !! >> >> Gary >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Fran Matkovich" <mjm1021@comcast.net> >> To: "Eve" <evebrown@gmail.com>; "Joseph Psotka" <psotka@msn.com> >> Cc: "dvhh" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 11:53 AM >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish >> >> >>> I agree. Only another Schwobish person would even understand what it >>> meant. >>> If you told any other American you were Schwobish, they would say HUHHH? >>> >>> Fran Matkovich >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Eve >>> Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 3:23 PM >>> To: Joseph Psotka >>> Cc: dvhh >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish >>> >>> I always felt that my parents didn't talk about it because it was too >>> complicated to understand and explain. Most people here had preconceived >>> notions as to what was going on and with the lack of language skills by >> my >>> parents, it was easier for them to just go with whatever was being told >>> them had happened to them. This probably sounds confusing, but I know >> many >>> of the people from the church I grew up in told "me" stories about what >>> had >>> gone on with my folks before coming here and I remember questioning my >>> parents about things that were said and they would just make this >>> gesture - >>> like - ach, forget about it, almost in disgust. I don't think my mom in >>> particular ever felt any shame about being German - my dad possibly since >>> he was more aware of what was going on outside their little village, but >>> mom, nah, she has been proud of who she is always. >>> >>> Eve >>> >>> >>>> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Joseph Psotka <psotka@msn.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> My parents also never spoke about being Shwovish to anyone outside the >>>> family; >>>> >>>> but a large part of that was being ashamed of being imprisoned in Gakowa >>>> (my mother and I) >>>> >>>> or being sent to slave labor in the Donetsk(my father). For those of us >>>> interned, it was a very painful and shameful part of our life and we >>>> never >>>> wanted to talk about it, and hid it whenever we could, in whatever way >> we >>>> could. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The second generation seems to think that this experience is something >> we >>>> wanted to discuss, but I assure we did not and it is even harder to get >>>> started with strangers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Diane Halas >>>> Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎April‎ ‎30‎, ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎53‎ ‎AM >>>> To: 'John Schambre', 'Eileen Simcox' >>>> Cc: dvhh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She >>>> said. >>>> "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered >>>> herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher >>>> who >>>> in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in >>>> Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified >>>> their >>>> primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine >>>> and >>>> her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat >>>> before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned >>>> about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. >>>> >>>> Diane >>>> >>>> Diane Halas >>>> 239-592-9969 >>>> >>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Syrmia Regional Coordinator >>> http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I guess I need to speak up. When I posted the comments about being ashamed it was in response to a post by Joseph Psotka and others comments about hiding the fact that they were in a camp. I truly didn,t mean to offend anyone, I was not saying that they should be ashamed, quite the opposite! I am second generation american with many different blood lines. Mothers side German, & Hungarian, Fathers side Polish, Bohemian and who knows what else. I have no first hand knowledge of how people felt cause my grandparents came to the U.S. in 1922. I don’t remember that they ever talk a lot about the old country, but I probably wasn’t paying much attention. My Mom doesn’t remember much either. But over the years things I have seen and heard have led me to the impression that people were ashamed. There have been comments posted here, I have seen people try and hide the tattoo’s, and not want to talk about what happened,& people have change their names. I understand that it is not something they really want to remember, but maybe if they didn’t make it seem like a secret more people would understand the whole story and not think that they were ashamed. I DON NOT THINK THAT THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN THRU THESE TERRIBLE ORDEALS SHOULD BE ASHAMED. STAND UP AND BE PROUD !!!!!!! Tell us how you feel and why. I am interested even if no one else is, but I am sure there is a whole world who would listen and care not shun. My next comment will not be so long I promise! I have enjoyed all the conversations that have gone on as of late a little heated or not. (Good for our blood pressure) I don’t feel that anyone meant to discredit the others, people have their beliefs and should be able to express them without others being offended. I am learning a lot and I have to sort out what I feel is right for me, as everyone should. I truly feel that there is no right or wrong to this matter. I would also like to think that NO ONE would stop posting , as that would be a huge loss to all of humanity and surely the members of this site. So everyone pull up your boot straps and continue to educate those of us who have so much to learn . (and want to). Thanks for listening to me and my apologies to anyone I may have upset. I really love and appreciate each and everyone of you and your postings. Barb D.

Dear Lister There is definitely some truth to it; "being ashamed" to in particular the people who languished In the starvation camps. Basically for two reasons. I was 9 years old when we were expelled from our home April 15 1945. My grandmother would load our wheelbarrow with essential and did walk with the load our way from Batschsentiwan to Filipowa.  In Filipowa we had to load on a train after being there for two weeks to be shipped to Gakowa. We had to march between two rows of partisans to whom we had to show what we have and they took everything they wanted from the people. Having only the clothes on our back we lived for two years in Gakowa. Naturally the children outgrew their clothing and had to resort to making clothes out of whatever they still had and my grandmother made clothes out of "Jute Sack" for us. My aunt who was a seamstress had needles and I had found scissors in Filipowa as thread they used thread they took from some clothes and Jute. Now we were running around in these clothes till we reached Austria. We can imagine how we looked, but we were not  the only ones, others were forced to do the same.  The second reason was our dialect and the fact that most of our people did only have 6 years of schooling and had a difficult time to communicate in a dialect they were not familiar.  I myself like many of us lost 3 years of schooling and now practically had to start over. Some were not even able to do this especially those children who lost some 5 years of schooling. Our people once very proud people with beautiful Trachten now were walking around in rags and were often looked at from the side. The mother if one of my friends was a wonderful women and I was eating many times in their house and she would say; it does not matter what clothes I was wearing as long as they were neatly mended and clean. There is nothing to be ashamed of it.   Hans 

No long speech. Because I'm not a "Schriftgelehrter" (translate) Some of the group members seem to mix up the word "fearful' with "ashamed" - this was never intended to portray us, neither the word "collective guilt" to be carried by millions of inocent Germans. No further opinion needed. Gary Gerhard Banzhaf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helga Kiely" <kandhkiely@rogers.com> To: "Rose Vetter" <rosevetter@gmail.com> Cc: "DVHH-L" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish > Amen! Ashamed?? No never! Thanks for the supportRose. > > Sent from Helga's Ipad > > >> On May 5, 2014, at 9:23 PM, Rose Vetter <rosevetter@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I can only speak for some of my relatives who were either in camps or >> were >> deported to the mines in Russia, but I never knew any of them to be >> ashamed. Why would anyone be ashamed for being imprisoned or enslaved >> innocently? My grandparents died in the forced labour camp >> Altker/Pasicevo. They were peaceful, god-fearing people who had never >> harmed anyone. They were too frail to join us on our flight, so they >> stayed home with their youngest daughter. On November 30, 1944 they were >> driven out of their home at gunpoint, herded together and forced to spend >> the night outside in the freezing rain. The next day they had to walk 40 >> km to the camp. My grandfather, suffering from asthma and a heart >> condition, collapsed and was thrown on a wagon like a sack; eight days >> later he was dead. My grandmother died there 2½ years later and my aunt >> lived to tell their story, but she was not ashamed. One of my aunts died >> in Gakowa and another in Jarek, but I doubt very much that they were >> ashamed. >> >> There were probably several reasons some of our people didn't want to say >> they were Schwowe or Donauschwaben. Offhand these come to mind: a) the >> memories were too painful, b) they did not want to dwell on the past, c) >> it >> was too difficult to explain to outsiders, d) they were suffering from >> the >> collective guilt syndrome imposed on all people inside and outside of >> Germany, and d) they were happy to have survived, did not want to dwell >> on >> the past and were looking ahead to building a new life. But ashamed? >> No, >> never! >> >> Rose >> >> >>> On 5 May 2014 15:21, Jody McKim Pharr <jodymckimpharr@comcast.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Bravo Gary! >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: >>> donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gary Banzhaf >>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:26 PM >>> To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish >>> >>> >>> Schwovish, Schwaebisch, Donauschwaben, Volksdeutsche, Reichsdeutsche - >>> even the word "Nazis" is used !!! >>> Waking up this morning I said to myself: Gary keep out, this discusion >>> is >>> getting to hot. It is where everyone wants to present their knowledge >>> what >>> we are and who we are: the one said he is glad not to be German - well, >>> let >>> him be Ukrainian or Armenian, he still participates in a forum of >>> Donauschwaben who basically and by majority are Germans, whether they >>> intermarried or not. >>> They are in the eyes of Germany "Auslandsdeutsche" - Germans living on >>> foreign soil. >>> This word is fearfully used by group members of the first or second >>> generation immigrants of North America. >>> Only one gutsy post I have read on Friday 5/2. The list member - no >>> functional Director - uses ethnicity; the term for ethnic German-s: >>> "lit. >>> Germans living outside Germany": for instance in South America, >>> Australia >>> or even Cape town, South Africa etc. >>> The DS memory is traumatic, they hated us for being on their land - and >>> they wanted to exterminate us with hate and when I later asked a former >>> associate: why ? he answered: "may be you didn't belong down there >>> anyhow." >>> No wrong doing we did, just trying to save us from approaching evil. No, >>> I >>> wasn't in Gakowa, Jarek or Valpovo. But lets not "Jammer" (live in >>> misery) >>> for ever. The many memorials permittet now by the State of Serbia are >>> for >>> our ancestors dear to us, whom we left 'down there' and they should >>> never >>> be forgotten ! >>> I do not have any other expression or explanation of who we are !! >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Fran Matkovich" <mjm1021@comcast.net> >>> To: "Eve" <evebrown@gmail.com>; "Joseph Psotka" <psotka@msn.com> >>> Cc: "dvhh" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 11:53 AM >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish >>> >>> >>>> I agree. Only another Schwobish person would even understand what it >>>> meant. >>>> If you told any other American you were Schwobish, they would say >>>> HUHHH? >>>> >>>> Fran Matkovich >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Eve >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 3:23 PM >>>> To: Joseph Psotka >>>> Cc: dvhh >>>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish >>>> >>>> I always felt that my parents didn't talk about it because it was too >>>> complicated to understand and explain. Most people here had >>>> preconceived >>>> notions as to what was going on and with the lack of language skills by >>> my >>>> parents, it was easier for them to just go with whatever was being told >>>> them had happened to them. This probably sounds confusing, but I know >>> many >>>> of the people from the church I grew up in told "me" stories about what >>>> had >>>> gone on with my folks before coming here and I remember questioning my >>>> parents about things that were said and they would just make this >>>> gesture - >>>> like - ach, forget about it, almost in disgust. I don't think my mom >>>> in >>>> particular ever felt any shame about being German - my dad possibly >>>> since >>>> he was more aware of what was going on outside their little village, >>>> but >>>> mom, nah, she has been proud of who she is always. >>>> >>>> Eve >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Joseph Psotka <psotka@msn.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My parents also never spoke about being Shwovish to anyone outside the >>>>> family; >>>>> >>>>> but a large part of that was being ashamed of being imprisoned in >>>>> Gakowa >>>>> (my mother and I) >>>>> >>>>> or being sent to slave labor in the Donetsk(my father). For those of >>>>> us >>>>> interned, it was a very painful and shameful part of our life and we >>>>> never >>>>> wanted to talk about it, and hid it whenever we could, in whatever way >>> we >>>>> could. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The second generation seems to think that this experience is something >>> we >>>>> wanted to discuss, but I assure we did not and it is even harder to >>>>> get >>>>> started with strangers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Diane Halas >>>>> Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎April‎ ‎30‎, ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎53‎ ‎AM >>>>> To: 'John Schambre', 'Eileen Simcox' >>>>> Cc: dvhh >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She >>>>> said. >>>>> "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she >>>>> considered >>>>> herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade >>>>> teacher >>>>> who >>>>> in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone >>>>> in >>>>> Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified >>>>> their >>>>> primary language as "low German" and her family was from >>>>> Alsace-Lorraine >>>>> and >>>>> her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the >>>>> Banat >>>>> before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even >>>>> learned >>>>> about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. >>>>> >>>>> Diane >>>>> >>>>> Diane Halas >>>>> 239-592-9969 >>>>> >>>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>>> 'unsubscribe' >>>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Syrmia Regional Coordinator >>>> http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Rita, You mention the name Juhasz which was the magyarized (spelling?) version of my great grandparents name of Schaeffer (I would use the little a with the two dots but that sometimes doesn't show up correctly in e-mail). My maiden name was Keller--that was the name of my ancestors when they first arrived in Hungary. Later, that name, too, was magyarized to Pinczés (hope the e shows as an accented letter). When my father and others from the town of Semlak arrived in the US (all entering as Pinczés) they changed their name back to the German version of Keller. Here are other names that, (according to Familienbuchen), were magyarized (hopefully the accents and umlauts will print as I want them): German Hungarian Frittman Béke Hirsch Szarvas Keller Pinczés Müller Molnár Rossinger Rozsa Schäfer Juhász Streck Nyuito Weber Takács Weissenacher Fehé Teller Tanyér Rose Mary Keller Hughes W Henrietta, NY -----Original Message----- From: Rita Schiwanowitsch Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 7:09 PM To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship‏ Oops... I guess I'll correct myself this time. The correct term to identify these settlers is Schwove, not Schwaben (although some use it interchangeably). I found people with names such as: Flanjak, Juhasz, Balogh, Amerjan, Andresz, Martini, Antoni, Katics, Kovacs, Milosovic, Stanivits.... along with other "Germanic"sounding names such as Beck, Müller, Hübel, Mergel, Jerger. These people were all treated by Germany and Jugoslavia as Schwove, and by each other. If you would have asked any of them in 1944 what "nationality/ethnic group (I will used these together at this point in time) they belonged to..... they would have called themselves German, Schwove, Volksdeutsch. But their last names do not support it. Nor do the church records of 1766. So, hence my identity crisis. RitaColorado, Jabuka, Bistritz ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Well done, Joseph. Thank you for your support. ~Eleanor On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Joseph Psotka <psotka@msn.com> wrote: > > > > Survivor Trauma, Fear, > lifelong anxiety, depression, shame, PTSD, and Genocide > > > If the Shwovish internment > occurred today, it would be followed by massive counseling and > psychological > interventions to prevent all the well known consequences of fear and > helplessness > > > An examination of > approximately 5,000 long-term psychiatric inpatients in Israel identified > about > 900 Holocaust survivors, and extraordinarily large number. How many > Shwovish survivors of the camps have > unnecessarily suffered nightmares, panic > attacks, depression, and even more serious psychological psychoses is > unknown > but certain to exist in large numbers. > My own family bears the scars of witness. These patients were not > treated as unique: trauma-related illnesses were neglected in diagnosis > and in decades-long > treatment. I hypothesize that many of these patients could have avoided > lengthy if not life-long psychiatric hospitalizations, had they been able > or > enabled by their treaters and by society at large to more openly share > their > severe persecution history. > > > The importance of > re-living these traumatic events and sharing them with sympathetic others > is a > cornerstone of modern therapeutic processes. > A therapeutic intervention such as video testimony or simply writing a > blog of the experience is a step forward > that helps build a narrative for the traumatic experience and gives it a > coherent expression that helps in > alleviating its symptoms and changing its course. > > > > > > Of course those of us > who survived the camps had no such help, and worse still emigrated to > countries > like Austria and Germany that were largely destroyed and suffering greatly > from > the war. Those unlucky enough not to > escape the camps were forced into additional forced labor for three more > years > before they could reasonably escape. > Their traumatic experiences and traumatic events, from the helplessness of > a mother who could > not feed her children; to the helplessness of children who saw their > grandparents > starve to death before their eyes, were everywhere; and fear > was a constant of their lives for years. > > > > > > Research on PTSD has > shown that it is not necessary to have faced fear of death to develop the > many > parts of the PTSD syndrome: anxiety, depression, flashbacks, intense > distress, > suicidal thoughts, feelings of distrust and paranoia, detachment and > emotional numbness, > and yes, guilt, shame, and self-blame. > > > (see > http://www.helpguide.org/mental/post_traumatic_stress_disorder_symptoms_treatment.htm > > > And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptsd) > > > > > > The camps and slave > labor were especially traumatic, as was the whole experience of supporting > the > Russian army in those areas of the Batschka along the prolonged fighting > in the > Fall of 1944; but the escapees in the treks out of the region suffered > their > own fears and trauma. > > > > > > It is unfortunate that > DVHH offers no guidance to the successor generations about these symptoms > of > the events, because the effects linger and reverberate in successive > generations. > > > It is even more > unfortunate when those with the courage to reveal their symptoms are > attacked > and ridiculed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Laub, D. "Kann die Psychoanalyse dazu beitragen, > den Volkermord historisch besser zu verstehen?" ("Can Psychoanalysts > Enhance Historical > Understanding of Genocide"), Psyche-Z. Psychoanal 57, 2003. > > > Neugebauer, R et al > (2009).Post‐traumatic stress reactions among Rwandan children and > adolescents > in the early aftermath of genocide. International Journal of Epidemiology. > • > Electronic publication—ahead of print. Newbury, C & Baldwin, H (2000, > July). Aftermath: Women's organizations in post‐conflict Rwanda. Retrieved > July > 6, 2009, from U.S. Agency for International Development Web site: > http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PNACJ324.pdf > > > > > > http://www.aaanet.org/sections/spa/?page_id=326 > > > > > > Genocide and Mass > Violence: Memory, Symptom, and Intervention Center for the Study of > Genocide > and Human Rights > > > Rutgers University > > > September 17-18, 2009 > > > > > > Organizers: Alex > Hinton (Rutgers University) and Devon Hinton (Massachusetts General > Hospital) > > > > > > This interdisciplinary > conference included over 25 participants, including several international > speakers, from psychological anthropology, medical anthropology, social > medicine, psychiatry, public health, and psychology. It examined the > legacies > of genocide and mass violence on individuals and the social worlds in which > they live, with particular attention to the local processes of recovery > from > that legacy. The workshop > > > > > > Alex Hinton > > > Transitional Justice: > Global Mechanisms and Local Realities after Genocide and Mass Violence > (Rutgers, 2010) > > > > Best, > Joe. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jody et al., I'm just catching up on this whole discussion, and I saw your comment about not knowing anyone who has connected to a living cousin through a genealogical DNA test with a connection that can also be verified through records. I have, but it's not in a DS branch of my family. I found a close cousin (half first cousin, once removed) that I'd never heard of, and the records bear it out. But that's a really close connection, and it's only because of illegitimacy and adoption that I'd never heard of him. I haven't been able to verify any of the more typical genealogical matches. As for DNA ethnicity, my results had my DS ancestry show up as German with a couple of trace elements (less than 1%)--one of Eastern Europe and one of West Asia. So, if there was intermarriage in my genetic history, it was very, very slight. As far as the whole nationality thing goes, my mother, instead of calling her grandparents by their names (e.g. Grandma Margaret or Grandma Svoboda), called her grandparents "German Grandma" and "Swedish Grandma." Her DS grandparents were simply German in everyone's minds, without any complex geographical, sociological, or historical thought about it. They considered themselves German (almost to a fault). They, along with a bunch of other immigrants from Gross Scham, moved to a suburb of Chicago with a large Bohemian population. Because they had a name of Bohemian origin (from a single Bohemian ancestor somewhere in the 18th century), they were often mistakenly thought of as Bohemian by their neighbors. They found this insulting--they were German, goshdarnit, not Slavs. They had a prejudice that being German was better than being Slav, a prejudice that probably came from growing up in the Banat with the enmity between the German and local Slav populations. Robin

Greetings. My grandmother was Aranka Szilberman.  Is that name strictly Hungarian?  Someone said it is a Hungarian Jewish name.  Just wondering about the heritage. Thanks. Susan Any information on Vilmos Komlossey (not sure he was part of the crest that is out there).  Would love to get his birth records and whatever they have from Romania.

Amen! Ashamed?? No never! Thanks for the supportRose. Sent from Helga's Ipad > On May 5, 2014, at 9:23 PM, Rose Vetter <rosevetter@gmail.com> wrote: > > I can only speak for some of my relatives who were either in camps or were > deported to the mines in Russia, but I never knew any of them to be > ashamed. Why would anyone be ashamed for being imprisoned or enslaved > innocently? My grandparents died in the forced labour camp > Altker/Pasicevo. They were peaceful, god-fearing people who had never > harmed anyone. They were too frail to join us on our flight, so they > stayed home with their youngest daughter. On November 30, 1944 they were > driven out of their home at gunpoint, herded together and forced to spend > the night outside in the freezing rain. The next day they had to walk 40 > km to the camp. My grandfather, suffering from asthma and a heart > condition, collapsed and was thrown on a wagon like a sack; eight days > later he was dead. My grandmother died there 2½ years later and my aunt > lived to tell their story, but she was not ashamed. One of my aunts died > in Gakowa and another in Jarek, but I doubt very much that they were > ashamed. > > There were probably several reasons some of our people didn't want to say > they were Schwowe or Donauschwaben. Offhand these come to mind: a) the > memories were too painful, b) they did not want to dwell on the past, c) it > was too difficult to explain to outsiders, d) they were suffering from the > collective guilt syndrome imposed on all people inside and outside of > Germany, and d) they were happy to have survived, did not want to dwell on > the past and were looking ahead to building a new life. But ashamed? No, > never! > > Rose > > >> On 5 May 2014 15:21, Jody McKim Pharr <jodymckimpharr@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> Bravo Gary! >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: >> donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gary Banzhaf >> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:26 PM >> To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish >> >> >> Schwovish, Schwaebisch, Donauschwaben, Volksdeutsche, Reichsdeutsche - >> even the word "Nazis" is used !!! >> Waking up this morning I said to myself: Gary keep out, this discusion is >> getting to hot. It is where everyone wants to present their knowledge what >> we are and who we are: the one said he is glad not to be German - well, let >> him be Ukrainian or Armenian, he still participates in a forum of >> Donauschwaben who basically and by majority are Germans, whether they >> intermarried or not. >> They are in the eyes of Germany "Auslandsdeutsche" - Germans living on >> foreign soil. >> This word is fearfully used by group members of the first or second >> generation immigrants of North America. >> Only one gutsy post I have read on Friday 5/2. The list member - no >> functional Director - uses ethnicity; the term for ethnic German-s: "lit. >> Germans living outside Germany": for instance in South America, Australia >> or even Cape town, South Africa etc. >> The DS memory is traumatic, they hated us for being on their land - and >> they wanted to exterminate us with hate and when I later asked a former >> associate: why ? he answered: "may be you didn't belong down there anyhow." >> No wrong doing we did, just trying to save us from approaching evil. No, I >> wasn't in Gakowa, Jarek or Valpovo. But lets not "Jammer" (live in misery) >> for ever. The many memorials permittet now by the State of Serbia are for >> our ancestors dear to us, whom we left 'down there' and they should never >> be forgotten ! >> I do not have any other expression or explanation of who we are !! >> >> Gary >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Fran Matkovich" <mjm1021@comcast.net> >> To: "Eve" <evebrown@gmail.com>; "Joseph Psotka" <psotka@msn.com> >> Cc: "dvhh" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 11:53 AM >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish >> >> >>> I agree. Only another Schwobish person would even understand what it >>> meant. >>> If you told any other American you were Schwobish, they would say HUHHH? >>> >>> Fran Matkovich >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Eve >>> Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 3:23 PM >>> To: Joseph Psotka >>> Cc: dvhh >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish >>> >>> I always felt that my parents didn't talk about it because it was too >>> complicated to understand and explain. Most people here had preconceived >>> notions as to what was going on and with the lack of language skills by >> my >>> parents, it was easier for them to just go with whatever was being told >>> them had happened to them. This probably sounds confusing, but I know >> many >>> of the people from the church I grew up in told "me" stories about what >>> had >>> gone on with my folks before coming here and I remember questioning my >>> parents about things that were said and they would just make this >>> gesture - >>> like - ach, forget about it, almost in disgust. I don't think my mom in >>> particular ever felt any shame about being German - my dad possibly since >>> he was more aware of what was going on outside their little village, but >>> mom, nah, she has been proud of who she is always. >>> >>> Eve >>> >>> >>>> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Joseph Psotka <psotka@msn.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> My parents also never spoke about being Shwovish to anyone outside the >>>> family; >>>> >>>> but a large part of that was being ashamed of being imprisoned in Gakowa >>>> (my mother and I) >>>> >>>> or being sent to slave labor in the Donetsk(my father). For those of us >>>> interned, it was a very painful and shameful part of our life and we >>>> never >>>> wanted to talk about it, and hid it whenever we could, in whatever way >> we >>>> could. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The second generation seems to think that this experience is something >> we >>>> wanted to discuss, but I assure we did not and it is even harder to get >>>> started with strangers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Diane Halas >>>> Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎April‎ ‎30‎, ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎53‎ ‎AM >>>> To: 'John Schambre', 'Eileen Simcox' >>>> Cc: dvhh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She >>>> said. >>>> "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered >>>> herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher >>>> who >>>> in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in >>>> Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified >>>> their >>>> primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine >>>> and >>>> her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat >>>> before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned >>>> about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. >>>> >>>> Diane >>>> >>>> Diane Halas >>>> 239-592-9969 >>>> >>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Syrmia Regional Coordinator >>> http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Rainer, Interesting..... I am 1/2 Siebenburgen also. Where is your family from there? Rita >From Colorado, Jabuka, and Bistritz > From: mail@rainerherrmann.de > To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 17:41:35 +0200 > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Fw: FW: German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > I am very happy, that the discussion about this topic cooled down. As an > enthusiastic member of this community I followed the arguments with growing > concern, because I had the impression of increasing tensions between some of > the contributors - which I regard as unnecessary as could be. I am surprised > that nation, citizenship, etc., even race belonged to the vocabulary used. > Most of these words may be necessary in historic research but history should > have taught all of us, that they are the basis for many serious problems. > Let me explain why I hesitate to use some of the expressions: > > When a (German-speaking) Swiss wants to offend a German, he calls him > "Hura-Schwob". If you pronounce the first word in English you don't need a > translation and what a Schwab is, most of us believe to know. In this case > Schwob is used as a synonym for German, regardless if the person is from > Hamburg (I remember that "Yankee" was another word for US-American, even > when he was from the south). In other areas "Sachsen" was sometimes used > instead of Germans. May be the reason for that was, that the Sueben and > Saxons were the most famous Germanic tribes. > > I have a book, written 1987 by Josef Volkmar Senz: "Geschichte der > Donauschwaben (History of the DS)", ISBN 3-85002-342-7,Publisher: Amalthea. > There one can find that the expression "Donauschwaben" was "invented" and > officially used 1922 by Hermann Rüdiger from Stuttgart and Robert Sieger > from Graz. Before that, our ancestors already called themselves "Schwoba". > Rüdiger and Sieger called the Donauschwaben a new-tribe, regardless where > they originally came from and how the mixture of original nationalities was > put together. > > We should never forget, that if it is true what the Bible says, we all stem > from Adam and Eve, but we don't have to go back that far: Today I live in a > distance of about 100 yards south of the LIMES, which was the border between > the Roman empire and the "wild Germania". I cannot believe that the Romans > only left a bunch of impressive ruins, I bet they also left some DNA. And > they had soldiers from all over the Roman empire her who did the same. This > is also true for the Turks who deserted the lands that later where restored > by our ancestors down the Danube south-east of Vienna. Believe me: They did > not leave only a couple of bags of coffee which were the starting capital > for the first coffee-shop in Vienna. > > Probably I should have stopped my family research earlier, because I found > out, the my Herrmann-family originally comes from Thun in Switzerland. I > assume, they left a catholic area in Switzerland, because they were > "reformed protestants" and left for the religiously liberal Palatinate. On > their way same of them may have settled in Alsace/Lorraine and met again > somewhere down the Danube. > > For me personally the discussions had - almost - raised another problem: My > mother was from Siebenbürgen/Transylvania and only my father was from the > Batschka. My only personal common denominator are the Turks, because the > "Siebenbürger Sachsen" settled in the Carpath-mountains as a fortress > against the Osman emperors already 800 years ago. According to all the > doubts expressed in the discussion, where do I belong to??? I am sure, I > belong to the grey ones and that is where I want to be. All white and all > black is boring it is much better to allow for some nuances. > > Sorry Nick and some other of the other elder DS! I admit, that the > experiences you have made are traumatic, but you paid the bill for the > idiots who started a second world-war only a few years after the disaster of > the first one ended. Everybody knows that the weak and innocent suffer most > when the owners of the only truth start their wars and long before the > concentration camps for the DS were invented, there were other, bigger ones > with millions of victims, and not only some "Reichsdeutsche" believed in the > superiority of the "German race". In the 21st century we should leave the > word "race" to dogs, there it might be useful. Sorry, but these are the rare > cases where my blood pressure gets out of control. Not all the > "Volksdeutsche" were innocent victims. I know all the explanations and > excuses why many of my male relatives where in the Waffen-SS. > > Just a last remark that shows my problem with some part of the discussion: > Some countries regard someone as their citizen when birth takes place on > their soil (Even on their ships or a plane). Others are sure, the parents > blood decides for the nationality of a child. Soil and blood, who > determines, and who is right at the end of the day? There is not a single > truth and therefore it is only important where one wants to belong to and > where one is accepted as part of the whole. I hope after all this I am > allowed to belong to and remain in the DVHH-community - together with Karen > and all the others please!!! > > Best regards > > Rainer Herrmann > > > > > >

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/world-war-i-history-divides-balkan-schoolchildren?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=87d2ab7710-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-87d2ab7710-319678805 I found this article today. It's about the causes of WWI according to the various countries in the Balkans. It makes me wonder what they are teaching the children about WWII. Rita From Colorado, Jabuka, and Bistritz

It seems to me that the Banat of the 18th and early 19th century was the America of the late 19th and early 20th century - a great big area of opportunity for people looking for a better life or their own land. But because of the political landscape and the building of designated immigrant villages, it never quite became a true melting pot. There were always people defined "others" , just as there are now. Official language changes altered names and spellings. Many last names are only residual of earliest ancestors; others show direct lines of descent. Ethnicity became diluted; nationality changed; allegiance and identification shifted. Parallels? One may as well ask, "What is an American?" Diane

Germany, after the 2nd world war, I am talking now West Germany not East Germany. West Germany was the biggest confusion and chaos after the war because they bombed the crap out of West Germany. The native Germans that lived there were homeless. And on top of that food supply and business was not even existing. They had to start from scratch over there. And then came one train after another loaded with immigrants, ethnic Germans, that were forcibly kicked out of every part of Eastern Europe, Central Europe including Russia. And the whole world was allowing the ethnic Germans to be kicked out. In this existing chaotic after war, and setting up camps for the immigrants, there was shortage of everything. Water supply, food supply, electricity, heating supply. There were people living in receiving camps for many years. It was a hardship season for them, but they were happy to be alive. With all those that had been deported and sent back to Germany it was overcrowded. The hardship of the war, the bombing and destruction, the living in the camps. Why did they want to leave Germany? They had gotten beaten up. They lost all their properties. Europe was on shaky ground. The ethnic Germans did not want to live in unsafe conditions anymore. Eventually, many places like Canada and the USA were offering them a better living standard and a more secure living in those countries. Every country had representatives there helping them to resettle in new lands. This is why my parents left Germany, Daniela Ivkovic Showley -----Original Message----- From: islandkaren <islandkaren@bellsouth.net> < Why is it that all these people who you seem to believe had such a tight grasp on being just "ethnic Germans", DID NOT at the time immigrate straight to Germany when things got bad?? Why did they think it was necessary to emigrate to Canada, USA, Australia, South America, and anywhere else they could get to as quickly as possible, but not back to their " Homeland", Germany? Could it be because after they had been born in a bunch of other places, had lived their whole lives some place other than Germany, and in fact no less than several hundred years had passed...... they just didn't feel 100% "German" anymore? > Karen.

@Matt: There are official annual business ownership registers as well as tax records available locally, those that you need are stored in the state archive in Sombor, Serbia. There should be copies available in the state archives in Budapest Hungary but I would have to check before I can tell you if that is the case. Donauschwaben business owners cooperated greatly with Serbian Trade Association "Privrednik" and took on many apprentices from the ranks of its cadets - when looking for information on your Donauschwaben ancestors who were store owners or craftsmen it is good to start by searching the Privrednik database that is free and available online here: http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php Here is an article in English explaining this database and how best to search it: http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/serbian-trade-association-privrednik-merchant-database In this database there is a Dresner Adam listed as inn keeper in Apatin in year 1926. : http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Dresner&field=poslodavac&searching=yes&search=Pretraga&t=0 I will be working in Sombor archive and visiting the villages in that area the first week of July, if anyone needs documentation or research done please send a separate email. State historical archive in Sombor holds the records for these current municipalities Sombor Apatin Kula Bač Odžaci vital and other records that are available are for the period 1718 -1949. Jugoslava Ilankovic "Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society www.rodoslovlje. com 2. Researching Businesses in Apatin (matt dresner) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: matt dresner <mdresner@gmail.com> > To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Cc: > Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 23:03:52 -0500 > Subject: [DVHH] Researching Businesses in Apatin > My great-great grandfather had a logging business in Apatin in the early > 20th century. Does anyone have an idea if there was, or still exists a > business directory of some sort for that time period? I am hoping such a > list would have the business owner's name so that I can research that end > of my family's heritage. > Right now I have a family tree that is just names. All of the brothers ( > and one sister) who came to America between 1907-1912 are deceased, with no > written records of their time in Apatin. > DVHH has come through in a big way, and have researched my family from > their roots in Germany. Now I would like to start filling in the blanks. > Thanks, Matt Dresner > > > >

may i intrudes myself Therese Schmidt and live in the U S A, i,m new here. i follow this List for more them 7 Years, and find it very interesting , my Mother was born in Gross Betschkerek Banat in 1912 , she used to say she was Austria- Hungary Born. she was very prod of it .she spoke German , Hungarian, Serbian, i can not recall my Parent say we where Schwaben, maybe we where not old enough to understand we where told our Family Tree goes way back to Elsa's Lothtringen [ if this is Spelt right] we only spoke German every where .i even Wrote a Book , on what we went true because we where German .i,m very Proud of it thanks to the List , and every one. Therese On May 5, 2014, at 5:09 PM, Rita Schiwanowitsch wrote: > Hello John, > > > > That's partly the way I understood it too. At first, I thought all settlers came down the Danube on Ulmer Schachtels. Then I found the church books from my mothers hometown, and my preconcieved notions changed. From what I have noticed, is that some definitely did come from Germany. But, others also came from within the Austro Hungarian Empire. This is why some families are not listed in the Stader books. They did not need to register because they were moving within the country they already lived. > > > > In the Pancevo region of Banat, I have found settlers from the regions of Germany, Croatia, Hungary, Serbia, Slovenia, and Italy, France, and Romania. The names of these regions were different at that time. I listed it this way for our modern visual understanding. > > > > These people settled in towns and, a couple generations later, became Schwaben. They were treated as one ethnic group.... by each other, Germany, and Yugoslavia. And, from what I understand, this is the reason the term Donauschwaben came to be used (just not by our ancestors). It was an attempt to describe the various ethnic groups that settled in the Pannonian Basin. > > > > I do not know any other way to explain what I found in the church books other than to say that there was more than one type of migration pattern. People then, just as people now, will travel to better their economic propects. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Rita > > Colorado, Jabuka, and Bistritz > > > > > > > > >> From: jmmkorn@cox.net >> To: joepsotka@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com; danielashowley@aol.com >> Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 13:18:06 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Fw: FW: German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship >> >> In this Nationality versus Citizenship question I have been waiting for >> anyone to bring up just one point. I have not seen all the answers, but I >> have a point that I have been remembering during all the time I have been >> trying to research my grandmother's people. Excuse me, if I do not remember >> this correctly or if I have misunderstood something, but I was under the >> impression that the term Donauschwaben was not so much the descriptive term >> in explaining nationality, race or point of origin. I doing the readings I >> have done, I was left with the impression that through the various waves of >> immigrants over the decades that the imperials invited these many >> nationalities to populate and make productive the lands of southeastern >> Europe, following the removal of the Ottoman Turks. My point or thought was >> that this term "Donauschwaben" was more the term applied to their common >> assembly point >> in the Schwaben lands of what we know today as southern Germany in the area >> of Ulm. If I could use the verb "to render" this process was ultimately to >> result in the bringing together of many separate peoples. Literally to be >> 'shipped down the river' on the Ulmer Schachtels, where they were to settle >> and revive these lands. So the process not only rendered new lands, but >> also rendered the people themselves in a sort a new people. I am not trying >> to step on any one's toes, but this is my two cents worth from my >> perspective from here in Arizona. >> >> Thank you anyone and everyone for reading and trying to understand my >> thoughts and words. I have said my peace! Be well all! >> >> John J. Kornfeind >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Daniela" <danielashowley@aol.com> >> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:36 AM >> To: <joepsotka@gmail.com>; <islandkaren@bellsouth.net>; >> <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Fw: FW: German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship >> >>> >>> I have been here only a short time. I thoroughly enjoy all that is >>> discussed here. No one need to leave this wonderful DVHH group. History is >>> not cast in stone. Even ancient historical documents that actually were >>> cast in stone, were subject to the bias of those who commanded the chisel. >>> Our Donauschwaben history and culture is very very rich and confusing. >>> There will and should be many opinions and stories. We do not and cannot >>> always be in 100% agreement. As in any heartfelt discussion, there is >>> inevitable heartfelt disagreement. We must always remember, we all have a >>> right to our own opinion and our own interpretation of history. >>> >>> >>> Daniela Ivkovic Showley >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joseph Psotka <joepsotka@gmail.com> >>> >>> < Thank you islandkaren for a good fight. On the one hand it was great to >>> get >>> your detailed and supported opinions. >>> But on the other hand it would be better to let you express yourself >>> openly and >>> completely without constant bickering and criticism of your views. >>> >>> If there are other more open and welcoming sites where you feel more >>> comfortable, please let me know. I'll see you there. > >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "islandkaren" <islandkaren@bellsouth.net> >>> >>> >>>> Okee-Dokee! Ya know what, you guys win! >>>> Catch ya later. >>>> Karen. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Nick Tullius" <ntullius@rogers.com> >>> >>>> Jody and Karen, >>>> >>>> To avoid further gross misrepresentation of what I am saying, I would >>>> really >>>> like to see a distinction made between the PRIVATE and the GROUP. And >>>> that >>>> preferably before any further public debate. >>>> To try a simplification: I never said that the DS are a group that >>>> is pure, 100% German. That does not even exist in Germany. Reality is, >>>> that >>>> the Danube Swabians as a group have a German nationality, i.e., they have >>>> a >>>> language with many German dialects, a way of life, a culture, a history. >>>> What I object to, is when I see that Karen is trying to use her own >>>> family history (and maybe sociology and DNA analysis) to prove that the >>>> DS >>>> were not essentially a German group. >>>> Looks like a grandiose undertaking, but doomed to failure because reality >>>> interferes. >>>> >>>> Take care, >>>> Nick >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Daniela for your comments. I agree, it's okay to agree to disagree. Jody -------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniela" <danielashowley@aol.com> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:36 AM To: <joepsotka@gmail.com>; <islandkaren@bellsouth.net>; <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Fw: FW: German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > I have been here only a short time. I thoroughly enjoy all that is > discussed here. No one need to leave this wonderful DVHH group. > History is not cast in stone. Even ancient historical documents that > actually were cast in stone, were subject to the bias of those who commanded the chisel. > Our Donauschwaben history and culture is very very rich and confusing. > There will and should be many opinions and stories. We do not and > cannot always be in 100% agreement. As in any heartfelt discussion, > there is inevitable heartfelt disagreement. We must always remember, > we all have a right to our own opinion and our own interpretation of history. > > > Daniela Ivkovic Showley > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joseph Psotka <joepsotka@gmail.com> > > < Thank you islandkaren for a good fight. On the one hand it was > great to get your detailed and supported opinions. > But on the other hand it would be better to let you express yourself > openly and completely without constant bickering and criticism of your > views. > > If there are other more open and welcoming sites where you feel more > comfortable, please let me know. I'll see you there. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "islandkaren" <islandkaren@bellsouth.net> > > >> Okee-Dokee! Ya know what, you guys win! >> Catch ya later. >> Karen. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nick Tullius" <ntullius@rogers.com> > >> Jody and Karen, >> >> To avoid further gross misrepresentation of what I am saying, I would >> really like to see a distinction made between the PRIVATE and the >> GROUP. And that preferably before any further public debate. >> To try a simplification: I never said that the DS are a group that is >> pure, 100% German. That does not even exist in Germany. Reality is, >> that the Danube Swabians as a group have a German nationality, i.e., >> they have a language with many German dialects, a way of life, a >> culture, a history. >> What I object to, is when I see that Karen is trying to use her own >> family history (and maybe sociology and DNA analysis) to prove that >> the DS were not essentially a German group. >> Looks like a grandiose undertaking, but doomed to failure because >> reality interferes. >> >> Take care, >> Nick >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Paul, Your post reminds me of my start in questioning my parents about where they came from. Dad would say Kupinovo and I would say oh, okay so mom was born in Obresch, Yugoslavia and you were born in Kupinovo, Yugoslavia (mind you these 2 villages are neighbors). I would no sooner get Yugoslavia out of my mouth and both mom and dad would yell - there was no Yugoslavia then, Austria-Hungary was where he was born. Then I would say - Oh, so mom was born in Obresch, Austria Hungary and again they'd both yell NOOOOOO - now it is Yugoslavia. Wow, talk about confusing, but they were born 10 years apart and alot happened there in those years. Eve On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Paul Kurst <pgkurst@gmail.com> wrote: > As a second generation citizen of the States, with two Donauschwaben Great > Grandparents, I have very little to add to the discussion/debate. However, > before I started researching, I was always told that my Great Grandparents > were from Austria-Hungary. I was told that, yet my Great Grandmother > herself, always said she was Schwaben. It was all very confusing to me > until I found DVHH :) > > Paul > St. Michaels, Maryland > > > On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, John J. Kornfeind <jmmkorn@cox.net> wrote: > > > In this Nationality versus Citizenship question I have been waiting for > > anyone to bring up just one point. I have not seen all the answers, > but I > > have a point that I have been remembering during all the time I have been > > trying to research my grandmother's people. Excuse me, if I do not > > remember > > this correctly or if I have misunderstood something, but I was under the > > impression that the term Donauschwaben was not so much the descriptive > term > > in explaining nationality, race or point of origin. I doing the > readings I > > have done, I was left with the impression that through the various waves > of > > immigrants over the decades that the imperials invited these many > > nationalities to populate and make productive the lands of southeastern > > Europe, following the removal of the Ottoman Turks. My point or thought > > was > > that this term "Donauschwaben" was more the term applied to their common > > assembly point > > in the Schwaben lands of what we know today as southern Germany in the > area > > of Ulm. If I could use the verb "to render" this process was ultimately > to > > result in the bringing together of many separate peoples. Literally to > be > > 'shipped down the river' on the Ulmer Schachtels, where they were to > settle > > and revive these lands. So the process not only rendered new lands, but > > also rendered the people themselves in a sort a new people. I am not > > trying > > to step on any one's toes, but this is my two cents worth from my > > perspective from here in Arizona. > > > > Thank you anyone and everyone for reading and trying to understand my > > thoughts and words. I have said my peace! Be well all! > > > > John J. Kornfeind > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Daniela" <danielashowley@aol.com> > > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:36 AM > > To: <joepsotka@gmail.com>; <islandkaren@bellsouth.net>; > > <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Fw: FW: German-Hungarians - Nationality vs > Citizenship > > > > > > > > I have been here only a short time. I thoroughly enjoy all that is > > > discussed here. No one need to leave this wonderful DVHH group. History > > is > > > not cast in stone. Even ancient historical documents that actually were > > > cast in stone, were subject to the bias of those who commanded the > > chisel. > > > Our Donauschwaben history and culture is very very rich and confusing. > > > There will and should be many opinions and stories. We do not and > cannot > > > always be in 100% agreement. As in any heartfelt discussion, there is > > > inevitable heartfelt disagreement. We must always remember, we all > have a > > > right to our own opinion and our own interpretation of history. > > > > > > > > > Daniela Ivkovic Showley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Joseph Psotka <joepsotka@gmail.com> > > > > > > < Thank you islandkaren for a good fight. On the one hand it was great > > to > > > get > > > your detailed and supported opinions. > > > But on the other hand it would be better to let you express yourself > > > openly and > > > completely without constant bickering and criticism of your views. > > > > > > If there are other more open and welcoming sites where you feel more > > > comfortable, please let me know. I'll see you there. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "islandkaren" <islandkaren@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > >> Okee-Dokee! Ya know what, you guys win! > > >> Catch ya later. > > >> Karen. > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Nick Tullius" <ntullius@rogers.com> > > > > > >> Jody and Karen, > > >> > > >> To avoid further gross misrepresentation of what I am saying, I would > > >> really > > >> like to see a distinction made between the PRIVATE and the GROUP. And > > >> that > > >> preferably before any further public debate. > > >> To try a simplification: I never said that the DS are a group that > > >> is pure, 100% German. That does not even exist in Germany. Reality is, > > >> that > > >> the Danube Swabians as a group have a German nationality, i.e., they > > have > > >> a > > >> language with many German dialects, a way of life, a culture, a > history. > > >> What I object to, is when I see that Karen is trying to use her own > > >> family history (and maybe sociology and DNA analysis) to prove that > the > > >> DS > > >> were not essentially a German group. > > >> Looks like a grandiose undertaking, but doomed to failure because > > reality > > >> interferes. > > >> > > >> Take care, > > >> Nick > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Syrmia Regional Coordinator http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia

Ya'll don't forget the Surname changes in Hungary 1800-1893 http://www.dvhh.org/research/surname_changes.htm I searched for many years for one line of my branches "Schick" only to find they changed their name from German to Hungarian = Czik, then I found their birth records right in the Mercydorf Church records, that I have a copy of. I laughed for all the years it was right under my nose! Although the Schick's did resume that spelling upon immigrating to the US, for many folks these Hungarian variants stuck. Rita, Balogh: During my 2005 trip to Banat I visited the village of Orzydorf. There I met a nice young man who spoke English/German/Romanian, Daniel Balan, who kindly showed us around town & was very helpful. His family has been long time residents of Orzidorf. Their original family name was Balong (German) and was changed to Balan. http://www.dvhh.org/orzydorf/photos.htm#TOWN Martini: The Martini family of the Trenton DS Club are among our favorite people and contributors. The father Adam Martini was born in Bukin (Batschka) and survived Tito's death camps and ended up in Austria, the same for his mother Eva who was born in Palanka. Read the interview with son Hans: http://www.dvhh.org/community/interviews/martini.htm Jody -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rita Schiwanowitsch Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 7:10 PM To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship‏ Oops... I guess I'll correct myself this time. The correct term to identify these settlers is Schwove, not Schwaben (although some use it interchangeably). I found people with names such as: Flanjak, Juhasz, Balogh, Amerjan, Andresz, Martini, Antoni, Katics, Kovacs, Milosovic, Stanivits.... along with other "Germanic"sounding names such as Beck, Müller, Hübel, Mergel, Jerger. These people were all treated by Germany and Jugoslavia as Schwove, and by each other. If you would have asked any of them in 1944 what "nationality/ethnic group (I will used these together at this point in time) they belonged to..... they would have called themselves German, Schwove, Volksdeutsch. But their last names do not support it. Nor do the church records of 1766. So, hence my identity crisis. RitaColorado, Jabuka, Bistritz

As a second generation citizen of the States, with two Donauschwaben Great Grandparents, I have very little to add to the discussion/debate. However, before I started researching, I was always told that my Great Grandparents were from Austria-Hungary. I was told that, yet my Great Grandmother herself, always said she was Schwaben. It was all very confusing to me until I found DVHH :) Paul St. Michaels, Maryland On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, John J. Kornfeind <jmmkorn@cox.net> wrote: > In this Nationality versus Citizenship question I have been waiting for > anyone to bring up just one point. I have not seen all the answers, but I > have a point that I have been remembering during all the time I have been > trying to research my grandmother's people. Excuse me, if I do not > remember > this correctly or if I have misunderstood something, but I was under the > impression that the term Donauschwaben was not so much the descriptive term > in explaining nationality, race or point of origin. I doing the readings I > have done, I was left with the impression that through the various waves of > immigrants over the decades that the imperials invited these many > nationalities to populate and make productive the lands of southeastern > Europe, following the removal of the Ottoman Turks. My point or thought > was > that this term "Donauschwaben" was more the term applied to their common > assembly point > in the Schwaben lands of what we know today as southern Germany in the area > of Ulm. If I could use the verb "to render" this process was ultimately to > result in the bringing together of many separate peoples. Literally to be > 'shipped down the river' on the Ulmer Schachtels, where they were to settle > and revive these lands. So the process not only rendered new lands, but > also rendered the people themselves in a sort a new people. I am not > trying > to step on any one's toes, but this is my two cents worth from my > perspective from here in Arizona. > > Thank you anyone and everyone for reading and trying to understand my > thoughts and words. I have said my peace! Be well all! > > John J. Kornfeind > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Daniela" <danielashowley@aol.com> > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:36 AM > To: <joepsotka@gmail.com>; <islandkaren@bellsouth.net>; > <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Fw: FW: German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > > > > I have been here only a short time. I thoroughly enjoy all that is > > discussed here. No one need to leave this wonderful DVHH group. History > is > > not cast in stone. Even ancient historical documents that actually were > > cast in stone, were subject to the bias of those who commanded the > chisel. > > Our Donauschwaben history and culture is very very rich and confusing. > > There will and should be many opinions and stories. We do not and cannot > > always be in 100% agreement. As in any heartfelt discussion, there is > > inevitable heartfelt disagreement. We must always remember, we all have a > > right to our own opinion and our own interpretation of history. > > > > > > Daniela Ivkovic Showley > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joseph Psotka <joepsotka@gmail.com> > > > > < Thank you islandkaren for a good fight. On the one hand it was great > to > > get > > your detailed and supported opinions. > > But on the other hand it would be better to let you express yourself > > openly and > > completely without constant bickering and criticism of your views. > > > > If there are other more open and welcoming sites where you feel more > > comfortable, please let me know. I'll see you there. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "islandkaren" <islandkaren@bellsouth.net> > > > > > >> Okee-Dokee! Ya know what, you guys win! > >> Catch ya later. > >> Karen. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Nick Tullius" <ntullius@rogers.com> > > > >> Jody and Karen, > >> > >> To avoid further gross misrepresentation of what I am saying, I would > >> really > >> like to see a distinction made between the PRIVATE and the GROUP. And > >> that > >> preferably before any further public debate. > >> To try a simplification: I never said that the DS are a group that > >> is pure, 100% German. That does not even exist in Germany. Reality is, > >> that > >> the Danube Swabians as a group have a German nationality, i.e., they > have > >> a > >> language with many German dialects, a way of life, a culture, a history. > >> What I object to, is when I see that Karen is trying to use her own > >> family history (and maybe sociology and DNA analysis) to prove that the > >> DS > >> were not essentially a German group. > >> Looks like a grandiose undertaking, but doomed to failure because > reality > >> interferes. > >> > >> Take care, > >> Nick > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I can only speak for some of my relatives who were either in camps or were deported to the mines in Russia, but I never knew any of them to be ashamed. Why would anyone be ashamed for being imprisoned or enslaved innocently? My grandparents died in the forced labour camp Altker/Pasicevo. They were peaceful, god-fearing people who had never harmed anyone. They were too frail to join us on our flight, so they stayed home with their youngest daughter. On November 30, 1944 they were driven out of their home at gunpoint, herded together and forced to spend the night outside in the freezing rain. The next day they had to walk 40 km to the camp. My grandfather, suffering from asthma and a heart condition, collapsed and was thrown on a wagon like a sack; eight days later he was dead. My grandmother died there 2½ years later and my aunt lived to tell their story, but she was not ashamed. One of my aunts died in Gakowa and another in Jarek, but I doubt very much that they were ashamed. There were probably several reasons some of our people didn't want to say they were Schwowe or Donauschwaben. Offhand these come to mind: a) the memories were too painful, b) they did not want to dwell on the past, c) it was too difficult to explain to outsiders, d) they were suffering from the collective guilt syndrome imposed on all people inside and outside of Germany, and d) they were happy to have survived, did not want to dwell on the past and were looking ahead to building a new life. But ashamed? No, never! Rose On 5 May 2014 15:21, Jody McKim Pharr <jodymckimpharr@comcast.net> wrote: > Bravo Gary! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gary Banzhaf > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:26 PM > To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish > > > Schwovish, Schwaebisch, Donauschwaben, Volksdeutsche, Reichsdeutsche - > even the word "Nazis" is used !!! > Waking up this morning I said to myself: Gary keep out, this discusion is > getting to hot. It is where everyone wants to present their knowledge what > we are and who we are: the one said he is glad not to be German - well, let > him be Ukrainian or Armenian, he still participates in a forum of > Donauschwaben who basically and by majority are Germans, whether they > intermarried or not. > They are in the eyes of Germany "Auslandsdeutsche" - Germans living on > foreign soil. > This word is fearfully used by group members of the first or second > generation immigrants of North America. > Only one gutsy post I have read on Friday 5/2. The list member - no > functional Director - uses ethnicity; the term for ethnic German-s: "lit. > Germans living outside Germany": for instance in South America, Australia > or even Cape town, South Africa etc. > The DS memory is traumatic, they hated us for being on their land - and > they wanted to exterminate us with hate and when I later asked a former > associate: why ? he answered: "may be you didn't belong down there anyhow." > No wrong doing we did, just trying to save us from approaching evil. No, I > wasn't in Gakowa, Jarek or Valpovo. But lets not "Jammer" (live in misery) > for ever. The many memorials permittet now by the State of Serbia are for > our ancestors dear to us, whom we left 'down there' and they should never > be forgotten ! > I do not have any other expression or explanation of who we are !! > > Gary > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fran Matkovich" <mjm1021@comcast.net> > To: "Eve" <evebrown@gmail.com>; "Joseph Psotka" <psotka@msn.com> > Cc: "dvhh" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 11:53 AM > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish > > > >I agree. Only another Schwobish person would even understand what it > >meant. > > If you told any other American you were Schwobish, they would say HUHHH? > > > > Fran Matkovich > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eve > > Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 3:23 PM > > To: Joseph Psotka > > Cc: dvhh > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why our parents didn't say they were Shwovish > > > > I always felt that my parents didn't talk about it because it was too > > complicated to understand and explain. Most people here had preconceived > > notions as to what was going on and with the lack of language skills by > my > > parents, it was easier for them to just go with whatever was being told > > them had happened to them. This probably sounds confusing, but I know > many > > of the people from the church I grew up in told "me" stories about what > > had > > gone on with my folks before coming here and I remember questioning my > > parents about things that were said and they would just make this > > gesture - > > like - ach, forget about it, almost in disgust. I don't think my mom in > > particular ever felt any shame about being German - my dad possibly since > > he was more aware of what was going on outside their little village, but > > mom, nah, she has been proud of who she is always. > > > > Eve > > > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Joseph Psotka <psotka@msn.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> My parents also never spoke about being Shwovish to anyone outside the > >> family; > >> > >> but a large part of that was being ashamed of being imprisoned in Gakowa > >> (my mother and I) > >> > >> or being sent to slave labor in the Donetsk(my father). For those of us > >> interned, it was a very painful and shameful part of our life and we > >> never > >> wanted to talk about it, and hid it whenever we could, in whatever way > we > >> could. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> The second generation seems to think that this experience is something > we > >> wanted to discuss, but I assure we did not and it is even harder to get > >> started with strangers. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Joe > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> From: Diane Halas > >> Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎April‎ ‎30‎, ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎53‎ ‎AM > >> To: 'John Schambre', 'Eileen Simcox' > >> Cc: dvhh > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She > >> said. > >> "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered > >> herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher > >> who > >> in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in > >> Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified > >> their > >> primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine > >> and > >> her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat > >> before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned > >> about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. > >> > >> Diane > >> > >> Diane Halas > >> 239-592-9969 > >> > >> in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Syrmia Regional Coordinator > > http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >