You can find the answers to all of your questions and much more at www.dvhh.org and hrastovac.net. Fran Matkovich Sent from my iPad > On Mar 31, 2018, at 8:37 AM, Bill Justin <[email protected]> wrote: > > 1. What time frame and who enticed/brought Germans to farm the Banat? > 2. About when did the Germans start to migrate to the Kutjevo, Pozesko-Slavonska, Croatia area? > 3. What religion or denomination/ church/s did the Germans attend on average? > Thank you in advance for any help or links to read for more information > Bill Justin > [email protected] > Sent from my iPhone >

1. What time frame and who enticed/brought Germans to farm the Banat? 2. About when did the Germans start to migrate to the Kutjevo, Pozesko-Slavonska, Croatia area? 3. What religion or denomination/ church/s did the Germans attend on average? Thank you in advance for any help or links to read for more information Bill Justin [email protected] Sent from my iPhone

Hello Kathy :) thank you for the information. It must have been lovely to find the baptismal records of your family from 1893 and 1895 and your grandparents’ wedding record of 1905! It`s so nice when we find something that`s part of our family`s history, specially from such a long time ago. I will look for the civil records in Timisoara and Arad and it`s great news that those authorities said it`s possible to obtain grandparents’ birth certificates at the civil records. Have a happy Easter, Nathalia 2018-03-30 11:20 GMT-03:00 Kathy Meany <[email protected]>: > Hi all, > > When I visited Jimbolia (Hatzfeld) in 2012, I met with the St. Wendelin’s > church administrator and viewed handwritten baptismal records for my > maternal grandmother and uncle from 1893 and 1895. > > I also visited the city hall in Vladimirescu (Glogowatz) ((St. Johann’s > was locked up that day) and viewed my paternal grandparents’ wedding record > of 1905 and a birth record of an infant child from 1906 - all written in > Hungarian. I was not permitted to take photos as the authorities were > afraid I was pursuing retribution - which I was not. The authorities there > told me I could obtain grandparents’ birth certificates at the civil > records in Arad. > > I would think, for Jimbolia, you would get birth records from the civil > records in either Timisoara or Arad. > > I hope that helps! > > Kathy Zollner Meany > > > > > On Mar 30, 2018, at 6:57 AM, FREY Tamas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hello Nathália, > > > > Do you know what religion your grandfather was? > > > > It might be easier to contact the local church. > > > > If your grandpa was born in 1921, it was only a year after the town had > been taken from Hungary and made part of Serbia-Croatia. I would imagine > that you have a better chance of finding church records than public records. > > > > Maybe you could start by writing to the email on this page: > http://www.danube-places.eu/index.php?option=com_content& > view=article&id=194&catid=39&lang=en&Itemid=313 > > > > > > Tamás Frey > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nathália G. <[email protected]> > > Sent: jeudi 29 mars 2018 19:48 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [DVHH] Birth Certificate in Romania > > > > Hello! > > > > I am Nathália and I've been a member of the forum for a while, since I > am looking for my family's information. > > Many of you, including Fran and Nick, have helped me with it, which I > truly appreciate ???????? > > > > Does anyone know how I could find a birth certificate in Romania, more > specifically, in Jimbolia? > > > > > > The thing is my grandfather Johann MENDLER (János Miklós Mendler) was > born in November 20th, 1921 or 1922 in Hatzfeld/Czombol, in former > Yugoslavia > > --- today called Jimbolia, in Timis County, Romania. > > He and the family came to my country, Brazil, because of the war. > > > > I need a proof of his birth, but I have no clue in which Primaria (city > > hall) it might be, since I don't know anyone in Romania and have never > been in the country. > > > > Could anyone help me? > > I would truly appreciate it > > > > Thank you! > > > > > >

Hello Tamás Frey, thank you for your message! My grandfather was Catholic as his family. I am still trying to find the local church of his baptism, since there are a few in Jimbolia, Timis County, Romania. I agree that I`d have a better chance finding church records than public records, because from my search I still couldn`t find any public record. And what a great webpage you`ve sent me. I am gonna contact them. Thank you and have a happy Easter, Nath ???????? 2018-03-30 7:57 GMT-03:00 FREY Tamas <[email protected]>: > Hello Nathália, > > Do you know what religion your grandfather was? > > It might be easier to contact the local church. > > If your grandpa was born in 1921, it was only a year after the town had > been taken from Hungary and made part of Serbia-Croatia. I would imagine > that you have a better chance of finding church records than public records. > > Maybe you could start by writing to the email on this page: > http://www.danube-places.eu/index.php?option=com_content& > view=article&id=194&catid=39&lang=en&Itemid=313 > > > Tamás Frey > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nathália G. <[email protected]> > Sent: jeudi 29 mars 2018 19:48 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [DVHH] Birth Certificate in Romania > > Hello! > > I am Nathália and I've been a member of the forum for a while, since I am > looking for my family's information. > Many of you, including Fran and Nick, have helped me with it, which I > truly appreciate ???????? > > Does anyone know how I could find a birth certificate in Romania, more > specifically, in Jimbolia? > > > The thing is my grandfather Johann MENDLER (János Miklós Mendler) was born > in November 20th, 1921 or 1922 in Hatzfeld/Czombol, in former Yugoslavia > --- today called Jimbolia, in Timis County, Romania. > He and the family came to my country, Brazil, because of the war. > > I need a proof of his birth, but I have no clue in which Primaria (city > hall) it might be, since I don't know anyone in Romania and have never > been in the country. > > Could anyone help me? > I would truly appreciate it > > Thank you! > > >

It makes sense to me.Karen. On Friday, March 30, 2018 6:44 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: Thanks so much, everyone, especially Rose for finding that excerpt describing the Serbian Orthodox Church. I was also puzzled by the distinction that Dan found in the Bogarosch Familienbuch between go (Greek Orthodox), grka (Greek Catholic) and grnu (Greek not united), but I’m wondering if this snippet from Rose’s second quote gives a clue: During the Ottoman period it [the Serbian Orthodox Church] waged a long struggle against the influence of Greek clergy basedin Constantinople. So, “Greek” can be a reference to eastern religious traditions generally, and go vs grnu distinguishes between the Greek Orthodox Church and the Serbian Orthodox Church hierarchies, which were distinct because of cultural differences (going back to Karen’s earlier comment). Does that make sense? -Linda On Mar 30, 2018, at 3:30 PM, Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> wrote: Rose, Nice research, those are some great references that you found.  Looking at the "Wien Geschichte Wiki” excerpt, where it describes the Griechisch-orthodoxe Kirche as formerly known as the Griechishe nichtunierte Kirche, perhaps the "not united" refers to being not united with Rome (i.e., not Catholic), which would make total sense in the context of everything else there.  I had been  supposing that it was referencing not-united as in the protestant traditions of united churches, but that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case. That seems to be validated in your second reference, where it states “die Serben sind fast alle griechisch nichtuniert”, since we know that the vast majority of Serbs are Orthodox.  The use of “griechisch" is a bit confusing, but whether Greek or Serbian, it is all in the Eastern Orthodox tradition. I guess the only thing still puzzling is that the abbreviation references in the Bogarosch Familienbuch, include abbreviations go (Greek Orthodox), grka (Greek Catholic) and grnu (Greek not united), implying that there was a difference between go and grnu.  But perhaps it really wasn’t a difference, but just different ways of referring to the same religious tradition, i.e., not united with Rome.   Interesting discussion! Dan On Mar 30, 2018, at 2:26 PM, Rose Vetter <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Linda, I did a search on "Griechisch nicht uniert" and it seems that this is an old term for Greek Orthodox, meaning, in the case of Serbia, where the majority are adherents of the Serbian (Pravoslav) Orthodox Church, they are independent of the Pope in Rome and elect their own patriarchs. https://www.wien.gv.at/wiki/index.php/Griechische_(nichtunierte)_Kirche Here is an interesting excerpt from an old book, meaning the Ruthenes and Romanians are partly Greek Catholic and partly non-Greek Catholic , most Serbs are non-Greek Catholic (Orthodox). https://books.google.ca/books?id=sNRIrUHG2tYC&pg=PA39&lpg= PA39&dq=griechisch+nichtuniert&source=bl&ots=SJtMDVTwMj&sig=ZSzzBWFYjtPC_ k4w0cZoPIeLxfA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiE9pKZ0pTaAhVSzWMKHXmKA KIQ6AEINTAB#v=onepage&q=griechisch%20nichtuniert&f=false I've copied the following excerpt from www.britannica.com: The distinguishing feature of Serbian national identity is its Eastern Orthodox <https://www.britannica.com/topic/Eastern-Orthodoxy> Christian heritage, though probably less than one-tenth of the population actually attended church during the communist era. Throughout history the autocephalous Serbian Orthodox Church <https://www.britannica.com/topic/Serbian-Orthodox-Church> has viewed itself as the champion of Serbian national interests. During the Ottoman period it waged a long struggle against the influence of Greek clergy based in Constantinople. Because of its nationalist activities, the Ottoman regime suppressed the Serbian church from 1766 to 1832. I hope this throws some light on your questions, Rose On 29 March 2018 at 11:48, karen mcbride <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Linda, I would suggest you consider the designations culturally or sociologically rather than in regard to Liturgy.  In the Towns and Villages for hundreds of years, a culture of "them" and "us" existed..mostly due to persecution and pogroms by governments.  There was of course antisemitism and ghettos for Jews, but also there was great awareness of who was classic Roman Catholic, who was Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Lutheran Evangelical, etc.  Religion determined for several hundred years who could actually migrate to the Banat area and when. As a result, when the records were originally made, labels were paramount and fairly specific as to what Church you belonged.  The labels were transcribed to the FBs with as much precision as possible as I understand it and so labels that made great sense in the past may not be so obvious now. Karen McBride   On Thursday, March 29, 2018 1:25 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: So, after making my way through a variety of articles online about various churches, I have to admit I still don’t really understand what “GRNU" is getting at. Protestants like Lutherans or Calvinists (Reformed) as Christians not Roman/Greek Catholic and not Greek Orthodox, as Dan suggested, would make sense.  I’m not sure then why the “Greek” part of the label - I can’t find any mention of differences in liturgy, etc. between those groups in the Banat and elsewhere. And the GRNU abbreviation itself doesn’t seem that common in the other FBs I’ve looked at, though maybe that’s just a function of the religions prevalent in each town. This would just be one of those things that I’d notice and then move on, except of course it’s a label attached to a possible relative and now I feel compelled to understand it. :-) -Linda On Mar 28, 2018, at 6:35 PM, Rose Mary Keller Hughes < [email protected]> wrote: In Semlak, there is a Greek Orthodox church.  I don't know how large their congregation is but the church looks quite nice. However, the DS churches in the community look lovely in photos until someone points out the cracks in the walls and ceilings. Rose Mary -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 3:40 PM To: Linda Sohl <[email protected]>; DVHH Mail List < [email protected]>; Roy Engel <[email protected]> Subject: [DVHH] Re: GRNU abbreviation? Linda, Though I’m not an expert in this field, I interpreted that to mean a Greek church in the Protestant tradition, rather than Orthodox or Catholic.  I believe that such Greek denominations were a small minority at that time in comparison to Orthodox and Catholic.  I’ve never run across any in my research, but they are obviously out there, based on your question and the abbreviation reference in the Familienbuch Bogarosch. Here is a link that might explain this better than I can. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches> Best to you in your research. Dan On Mar 28, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: Thanks for that information, Dan. It does lead me to an obvious follow-up question, though - which churches (then, or now) would be considered "Greek, not united" that are neither Greek-Catholic (one of the 23 churches in communion with Rome, listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_particular_churches_ and_liturgical_rites#Particular_churches_sui_iuris ), nor Greek Orthodox? -Linda On Mar 28, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> wrote: In the Abkürzungen (abbreviations) section of the Familienbuch Bogarosch, under Konfessionen (Religious Denominations), grnu is Griechisch nicht uniert (Greek not united), differentiated from go (Griechisch-orthodox) and grka (Griechisch-katholisch). Dan On Mar 27, 2018, at 11:44 PM, Roy Engel <[email protected]> wrote: I have never seen that abbreviation before.  I am assuming that it is German and I can't think what the GR would stand for, but the NU might stand for "Namen Unbekannt" (Name Unknown).  This is just a guess. Roy On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:54 PM, Linda Sohl < [email protected]> wrote: In the new Gross Betschkerek familienbuch, does anyone know what the abbreviation “GRNU” means? It’s not listed up front with other abbreviations (or else I’ve overlooked it). I see it following some people’s names, where there might otherwise be a note about a person’s occupation or marital status. -Linda --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Thanks so much, everyone, especially Rose for finding that excerpt describing the Serbian Orthodox Church. I was also puzzled by the distinction that Dan found in the Bogarosch Familienbuch between go (Greek Orthodox), grka (Greek Catholic) and grnu (Greek not united), but I’m wondering if this snippet from Rose’s second quote gives a clue: During the Ottoman period it [the Serbian Orthodox Church] waged a long struggle against the influence of Greek clergy based in Constantinople. So, “Greek” can be a reference to eastern religious traditions generally, and go vs grnu distinguishes between the Greek Orthodox Church and the Serbian Orthodox Church hierarchies, which were distinct because of cultural differences (going back to Karen’s earlier comment). Does that make sense? -Linda On Mar 30, 2018, at 3:30 PM, Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> wrote: > Rose, > > Nice research, those are some great references that you found. Looking at the "Wien Geschichte Wiki” excerpt, where it describes the Griechisch-orthodoxe Kirche as formerly known as the Griechishe nichtunierte Kirche, perhaps the "not united" refers to being not united with Rome (i.e., not Catholic), which would make total sense in the context of everything else there. I had been supposing that it was referencing not-united as in the protestant traditions of united churches, but that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case. > > That seems to be validated in your second reference, where it states “die Serben sind fast alle griechisch nichtuniert”, since we know that the vast majority of Serbs are Orthodox. The use of “griechisch" is a bit confusing, but whether Greek or Serbian, it is all in the Eastern Orthodox tradition. > > I guess the only thing still puzzling is that the abbreviation references in the Bogarosch Familienbuch, include abbreviations go (Greek Orthodox), grka (Greek Catholic) and grnu (Greek not united), implying that there was a difference between go and grnu. But perhaps it really wasn’t a difference, but just different ways of referring to the same religious tradition, i.e., not united with Rome. > > Interesting discussion! > > Dan > >> On Mar 30, 2018, at 2:26 PM, Rose Vetter <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hello Linda, >> >> I did a search on "Griechisch nicht uniert" and it seems that this is an >> old term for Greek Orthodox, meaning, in the case of Serbia, where the >> majority are adherents of the Serbian (Pravoslav) Orthodox Church, they are >> independent of the Pope in Rome and elect their own patriarchs. >> https://www.wien.gv.at/wiki/index.php/Griechische_(nichtunierte)_Kirche >> >> Here is an interesting excerpt from an old book, meaning the Ruthenes and >> Romanians are partly Greek Catholic and partly non-Greek Catholic , most >> Serbs are non-Greek Catholic (Orthodox). >> https://books.google.ca/books?id=sNRIrUHG2tYC&pg=PA39&lpg= >> PA39&dq=griechisch+nichtuniert&source=bl&ots=SJtMDVTwMj&sig=ZSzzBWFYjtPC_ >> k4w0cZoPIeLxfA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiE9pKZ0pTaAhVSzWMKHXmKA >> KIQ6AEINTAB#v=onepage&q=griechisch%20nichtuniert&f=false >> >> I've copied the following excerpt from www.britannica.com: >> >> The distinguishing feature of Serbian national identity is its Eastern >>> Orthodox <https://www.britannica.com/topic/Eastern-Orthodoxy> Christian >>> heritage, though probably less than one-tenth of the population actually >>> attended church during the communist era. Throughout history the >>> autocephalous Serbian Orthodox Church >>> <https://www.britannica.com/topic/Serbian-Orthodox-Church> has viewed >>> itself as the champion of Serbian national interests. During the Ottoman >>> period it waged a long struggle against the influence of Greek clergy based >>> in Constantinople. Because of its nationalist activities, the Ottoman >>> regime suppressed the Serbian church from 1766 to 1832. >> >> >> I hope this throws some light on your questions, >> Rose >> >> On 29 March 2018 at 11:48, karen mcbride <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hello Linda, >>> I would suggest you consider the designations culturally or sociologically >>> rather than in regard to Liturgy. In the Towns and Villages for hundreds >>> of years, a culture of "them" and "us" existed..mostly due to persecution >>> and pogroms by governments. There was of course antisemitism and ghettos >>> for Jews, but also there was great awareness of who was classic Roman >>> Catholic, who was Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Lutheran Evangelical, >>> etc. Religion determined for several hundred years who could actually >>> migrate to the Banat area and when. As a result, when the records were >>> originally made, labels were paramount and fairly specific as to what >>> Church you belonged. The labels were transcribed to the FBs with as much >>> precision as possible as I understand it and so labels that made great >>> sense in the past may not be so obvious now. >>> Karen McBride >>> >>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 1:25 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> So, after making my way through a variety of articles online about >>> various churches, I have to admit I still don’t really understand what >>> “GRNU" is getting at. >>> >>> Protestants like Lutherans or Calvinists (Reformed) as Christians not >>> Roman/Greek Catholic and not Greek Orthodox, as Dan suggested, would make >>> sense. I’m not sure then why the “Greek” part of the label - I can’t find >>> any mention of differences in liturgy, etc. between those groups in the >>> Banat and elsewhere. And the GRNU abbreviation itself doesn’t seem that >>> common in the other FBs I’ve looked at, though maybe that’s just a function >>> of the religions prevalent in each town. >>> >>> This would just be one of those things that I’d notice and then move on, >>> except of course it’s a label attached to a possible relative and now I >>> feel compelled to understand it. :-) >>> >>> -Linda >>> >>> >>> On Mar 28, 2018, at 6:35 PM, Rose Mary Keller Hughes < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> In Semlak, there is a Greek Orthodox church. I don't know how large >>> their congregation is but the church looks quite nice. However, the DS >>> churches in the community look lovely in photos until someone points out >>> the cracks in the walls and ceilings. >>>> >>>> Rose Mary >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 3:40 PM >>>> To: Linda Sohl <[email protected]>; DVHH Mail List < >>> [email protected]>; Roy Engel <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: [DVHH] Re: GRNU abbreviation? >>>> >>>> Linda, >>>> >>>> Though I’m not an expert in this field, I interpreted that to mean a >>> Greek church in the Protestant tradition, rather than Orthodox or >>> Catholic. I believe that such Greek denominations were a small minority at >>> that time in comparison to Orthodox and Catholic. I’ve never run across >>> any in my research, but they are obviously out there, based on your >>> question and the abbreviation reference in the Familienbuch Bogarosch. >>> Here is a link that might explain this better than I can. >>>> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches < >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches> >>>> >>>> Best to you in your research. >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 28, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for that information, Dan. It does lead me to an obvious >>> follow-up question, though - which churches (then, or now) would be >>> considered "Greek, not united" that are neither Greek-Catholic (one of the >>> 23 churches in communion with Rome, listed here: >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_particular_churches_ >>> and_liturgical_rites#Particular_churches_sui_iuris ), nor Greek Orthodox? >>>>> >>>>> -Linda >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 28, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In the Abkürzungen (abbreviations) section of the Familienbuch >>> Bogarosch, under Konfessionen (Religious Denominations), grnu is Griechisch >>> nicht uniert (Greek not united), differentiated from go >>> (Griechisch-orthodox) and grka (Griechisch-katholisch). >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 27, 2018, at 11:44 PM, Roy Engel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have never seen that abbreviation before. I am assuming that it is >>> German and I can't think what the GR would stand for, but the NU might >>> stand for "Namen Unbekannt" (Name Unknown). This is just a guess. >>>>>>> Roy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:54 PM, Linda Sohl < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the new Gross Betschkerek familienbuch, does anyone know what the >>> abbreviation “GRNU” means? It’s not listed up front with other >>> abbreviations (or else I’ve overlooked it). I see it following some >>> people’s names, where there might otherwise be a note about a person’s >>> occupation or marital status. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Linda >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >

There used to be an online Familienbuch for Offsenitza at https://www.hyperbyte.net/Ofsenitza/index.htm, but it is no longer there. Does anyone know where it went? -- Glenn Schwartz President, Zichydorf Village Association (http://zichydorfonline.org) Searching: Schwartz, Kleckner, Schönherr in Zichydorf, Banat; Schüssler, Millecker, Lenhardt in Kudritz, Banat; Schwartz, Kory, Pierson/Person in Morawitza, Banat; Kalupsky/Chalupsky in Blumenthal, Banat; Bardua, Kandel, Heuchert in Kolomea, Galicia; Kuntz, Holzer, Kraft, Wolfe, Folk (Volk) in Kutschurgan, Russia; Macht in Volga, Russia. Email: [email protected]

Rose, Nice research, those are some great references that you found. Looking at the "Wien Geschichte Wiki” excerpt, where it describes the Griechisch-orthodoxe Kirche as formerly known as the Griechishe nichtunierte Kirche, perhaps the "not united" refers to being not united with Rome (i.e., not Catholic), which would make total sense in the context of everything else there. I had been supposing that it was referencing not-united as in the protestant traditions of united churches, but that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case. That seems to be validated in your second reference, where it states “die Serben sind fast alle griechisch nichtuniert”, since we know that the vast majority of Serbs are Orthodox. The use of “griechisch" is a bit confusing, but whether Greek or Serbian, it is all in the Eastern Orthodox tradition. I guess the only thing still puzzling is that the abbreviation references in the Bogarosch Familienbuch, include abbreviations go (Greek Orthodox), grka (Greek Catholic) and grnu (Greek not united), implying that there was a difference between go and grnu. But perhaps it really wasn’t a difference, but just different ways of referring to the same religious tradition, i.e., not united with Rome. Interesting discussion! Dan > On Mar 30, 2018, at 2:26 PM, Rose Vetter <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello Linda, > > I did a search on "Griechisch nicht uniert" and it seems that this is an > old term for Greek Orthodox, meaning, in the case of Serbia, where the > majority are adherents of the Serbian (Pravoslav) Orthodox Church, they are > independent of the Pope in Rome and elect their own patriarchs. > https://www.wien.gv.at/wiki/index.php/Griechische_(nichtunierte)_Kirche > > Here is an interesting excerpt from an old book, meaning the Ruthenes and > Romanians are partly Greek Catholic and partly non-Greek Catholic , most > Serbs are non-Greek Catholic (Orthodox). > https://books.google.ca/books?id=sNRIrUHG2tYC&pg=PA39&lpg= > PA39&dq=griechisch+nichtuniert&source=bl&ots=SJtMDVTwMj&sig=ZSzzBWFYjtPC_ > k4w0cZoPIeLxfA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiE9pKZ0pTaAhVSzWMKHXmKA > KIQ6AEINTAB#v=onepage&q=griechisch%20nichtuniert&f=false > > I've copied the following excerpt from www.britannica.com: > > The distinguishing feature of Serbian national identity is its Eastern >> Orthodox <https://www.britannica.com/topic/Eastern-Orthodoxy> Christian >> heritage, though probably less than one-tenth of the population actually >> attended church during the communist era. Throughout history the >> autocephalous Serbian Orthodox Church >> <https://www.britannica.com/topic/Serbian-Orthodox-Church> has viewed >> itself as the champion of Serbian national interests. During the Ottoman >> period it waged a long struggle against the influence of Greek clergy based >> in Constantinople. Because of its nationalist activities, the Ottoman >> regime suppressed the Serbian church from 1766 to 1832. > > > I hope this throws some light on your questions, > Rose > > On 29 March 2018 at 11:48, karen mcbride <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello Linda, >> I would suggest you consider the designations culturally or sociologically >> rather than in regard to Liturgy. In the Towns and Villages for hundreds >> of years, a culture of "them" and "us" existed..mostly due to persecution >> and pogroms by governments. There was of course antisemitism and ghettos >> for Jews, but also there was great awareness of who was classic Roman >> Catholic, who was Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Lutheran Evangelical, >> etc. Religion determined for several hundred years who could actually >> migrate to the Banat area and when. As a result, when the records were >> originally made, labels were paramount and fairly specific as to what >> Church you belonged. The labels were transcribed to the FBs with as much >> precision as possible as I understand it and so labels that made great >> sense in the past may not be so obvious now. >> Karen McBride >> >> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 1:25 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> So, after making my way through a variety of articles online about >> various churches, I have to admit I still don’t really understand what >> “GRNU" is getting at. >> >> Protestants like Lutherans or Calvinists (Reformed) as Christians not >> Roman/Greek Catholic and not Greek Orthodox, as Dan suggested, would make >> sense. I’m not sure then why the “Greek” part of the label - I can’t find >> any mention of differences in liturgy, etc. between those groups in the >> Banat and elsewhere. And the GRNU abbreviation itself doesn’t seem that >> common in the other FBs I’ve looked at, though maybe that’s just a function >> of the religions prevalent in each town. >> >> This would just be one of those things that I’d notice and then move on, >> except of course it’s a label attached to a possible relative and now I >> feel compelled to understand it. :-) >> >> -Linda >> >> >> On Mar 28, 2018, at 6:35 PM, Rose Mary Keller Hughes < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> In Semlak, there is a Greek Orthodox church. I don't know how large >> their congregation is but the church looks quite nice. However, the DS >> churches in the community look lovely in photos until someone points out >> the cracks in the walls and ceilings. >>> >>> Rose Mary >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 3:40 PM >>> To: Linda Sohl <[email protected]>; DVHH Mail List < >> [email protected]>; Roy Engel <[email protected]> >>> Subject: [DVHH] Re: GRNU abbreviation? >>> >>> Linda, >>> >>> Though I’m not an expert in this field, I interpreted that to mean a >> Greek church in the Protestant tradition, rather than Orthodox or >> Catholic. I believe that such Greek denominations were a small minority at >> that time in comparison to Orthodox and Catholic. I’ve never run across >> any in my research, but they are obviously out there, based on your >> question and the abbreviation reference in the Familienbuch Bogarosch. >> Here is a link that might explain this better than I can. >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches < >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches> >>> >>> Best to you in your research. >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 28, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for that information, Dan. It does lead me to an obvious >> follow-up question, though - which churches (then, or now) would be >> considered "Greek, not united" that are neither Greek-Catholic (one of the >> 23 churches in communion with Rome, listed here: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_particular_churches_ >> and_liturgical_rites#Particular_churches_sui_iuris ), nor Greek Orthodox? >>>> >>>> -Linda >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 28, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In the Abkürzungen (abbreviations) section of the Familienbuch >> Bogarosch, under Konfessionen (Religious Denominations), grnu is Griechisch >> nicht uniert (Greek not united), differentiated from go >> (Griechisch-orthodox) and grka (Griechisch-katholisch). >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 27, 2018, at 11:44 PM, Roy Engel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have never seen that abbreviation before. I am assuming that it is >> German and I can't think what the GR would stand for, but the NU might >> stand for "Namen Unbekannt" (Name Unknown). This is just a guess. >>>>>> Roy >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:54 PM, Linda Sohl < >> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In the new Gross Betschkerek familienbuch, does anyone know what the >> abbreviation “GRNU” means? It’s not listed up front with other >> abbreviations (or else I’ve overlooked it). I see it following some >> people’s names, where there might otherwise be a note about a person’s >> occupation or marital status. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Linda >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> >> >> >> >

Hello Linda, I did a search on "Griechisch nicht uniert" and it seems that this is an old term for Greek Orthodox, meaning, in the case of Serbia, where the majority are adherents of the Serbian (Pravoslav) Orthodox Church, they are independent of the Pope in Rome and elect their own patriarchs. https://www.wien.gv.at/wiki/index.php/Griechische_(nichtunierte)_Kirche Here is an interesting excerpt from an old book, meaning the Ruthenes and Romanians are partly Greek Catholic and partly non-Greek Catholic , most Serbs are non-Greek Catholic (Orthodox). https://books.google.ca/books?id=sNRIrUHG2tYC&pg=PA39&lpg= PA39&dq=griechisch+nichtuniert&source=bl&ots=SJtMDVTwMj&sig=ZSzzBWFYjtPC_ k4w0cZoPIeLxfA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiE9pKZ0pTaAhVSzWMKHXmKA KIQ6AEINTAB#v=onepage&q=griechisch%20nichtuniert&f=false I've copied the following excerpt from www.britannica.com: The distinguishing feature of Serbian national identity is its Eastern > Orthodox <https://www.britannica.com/topic/Eastern-Orthodoxy> Christian > heritage, though probably less than one-tenth of the population actually > attended church during the communist era. Throughout history the > autocephalous Serbian Orthodox Church > <https://www.britannica.com/topic/Serbian-Orthodox-Church> has viewed > itself as the champion of Serbian national interests. During the Ottoman > period it waged a long struggle against the influence of Greek clergy based > in Constantinople. Because of its nationalist activities, the Ottoman > regime suppressed the Serbian church from 1766 to 1832. I hope this throws some light on your questions, Rose On 29 March 2018 at 11:48, karen mcbride <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Linda, > I would suggest you consider the designations culturally or sociologically > rather than in regard to Liturgy. In the Towns and Villages for hundreds > of years, a culture of "them" and "us" existed..mostly due to persecution > and pogroms by governments. There was of course antisemitism and ghettos > for Jews, but also there was great awareness of who was classic Roman > Catholic, who was Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Lutheran Evangelical, > etc. Religion determined for several hundred years who could actually > migrate to the Banat area and when. As a result, when the records were > originally made, labels were paramount and fairly specific as to what > Church you belonged. The labels were transcribed to the FBs with as much > precision as possible as I understand it and so labels that made great > sense in the past may not be so obvious now. > Karen McBride > > On Thursday, March 29, 2018 1:25 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > So, after making my way through a variety of articles online about > various churches, I have to admit I still don’t really understand what > “GRNU" is getting at. > > Protestants like Lutherans or Calvinists (Reformed) as Christians not > Roman/Greek Catholic and not Greek Orthodox, as Dan suggested, would make > sense. I’m not sure then why the “Greek” part of the label - I can’t find > any mention of differences in liturgy, etc. between those groups in the > Banat and elsewhere. And the GRNU abbreviation itself doesn’t seem that > common in the other FBs I’ve looked at, though maybe that’s just a function > of the religions prevalent in each town. > > This would just be one of those things that I’d notice and then move on, > except of course it’s a label attached to a possible relative and now I > feel compelled to understand it. :-) > > -Linda > > > On Mar 28, 2018, at 6:35 PM, Rose Mary Keller Hughes < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > In Semlak, there is a Greek Orthodox church. I don't know how large > their congregation is but the church looks quite nice. However, the DS > churches in the community look lovely in photos until someone points out > the cracks in the walls and ceilings. > > > > Rose Mary > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 3:40 PM > > To: Linda Sohl <[email protected]>; DVHH Mail List < > [email protected]>; Roy Engel <[email protected]> > > Subject: [DVHH] Re: GRNU abbreviation? > > > > Linda, > > > > Though I’m not an expert in this field, I interpreted that to mean a > Greek church in the Protestant tradition, rather than Orthodox or > Catholic. I believe that such Greek denominations were a small minority at > that time in comparison to Orthodox and Catholic. I’ve never run across > any in my research, but they are obviously out there, based on your > question and the abbreviation reference in the Familienbuch Bogarosch. > Here is a link that might explain this better than I can. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches < > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches> > > > > Best to you in your research. > > > > Dan > > > > > >> On Mar 28, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for that information, Dan. It does lead me to an obvious > follow-up question, though - which churches (then, or now) would be > considered "Greek, not united" that are neither Greek-Catholic (one of the > 23 churches in communion with Rome, listed here: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_particular_churches_ > and_liturgical_rites#Particular_churches_sui_iuris ), nor Greek Orthodox? > >> > >> -Linda > >> > >> > >> On Mar 28, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> In the Abkürzungen (abbreviations) section of the Familienbuch > Bogarosch, under Konfessionen (Religious Denominations), grnu is Griechisch > nicht uniert (Greek not united), differentiated from go > (Griechisch-orthodox) and grka (Griechisch-katholisch). > >>> > >>> Dan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Mar 27, 2018, at 11:44 PM, Roy Engel <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I have never seen that abbreviation before. I am assuming that it is > German and I can't think what the GR would stand for, but the NU might > stand for "Namen Unbekannt" (Name Unknown). This is just a guess. > >>>> Roy > >>>> > >>>> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:54 PM, Linda Sohl < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> In the new Gross Betschkerek familienbuch, does anyone know what the > abbreviation “GRNU” means? It’s not listed up front with other > abbreviations (or else I’ve overlooked it). I see it following some > people’s names, where there might otherwise be a note about a person’s > occupation or marital status. > >>>> > >>>> -Linda > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > --- > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > >

I would like to introduce the new ROOTSWEB archive interface. It is very different from the previous version of the software. I have debated when the best time is to introduce the changes, but finally decided to begin slowly and learn together. There is no manual or quick reference guide to the archive interface that I am aware of. I would suggest creating a bookmark to get to the archives and any other archive feature you want to get at quickly. 1. The archives are coming back gradually, currently back as far as 2015. To reach the archives use: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ You will see a list of the latest posts - a good one to look at to see how the threads work is Linda Sohl's post titled 'GRNU Abbreviation?'. 2. You will see a lot of differences in the 'look and feel' of the archives pages. Here's tips to using the main functions. SEARCH - on the right side of the page, under the advertising bar, you will see a box with the words 'Search this list' in it. Type your search criteria here and click on the magnifying glass BROWSE - on the left side of the page you will see years - 2018, 2017, 2016 and 2015 right now - more to come. Click on the year and it opens up a list of months. Click on the month you would like to browse. 3. Please do not try to use the REPLY and START A NEW THREAD options on the archive pages. I would strongly recommend not using these options until I have had time to test them. 4. If you want to test out new features, please email me directly at my administator's email address [email protected] My goal is to produce a short quick reference guide to using the archives within the next couple of weeks. 5. Since the mailing lists have come back, approximately 1,300 mailing lists have had activity. The DVHH list is currently 9th under MOST POPULAR (number of participants) and 21st under MOST ACTIVE (number of discussions)! AUSGEZEICHNET!!!! (EXCELLENT!!!!) 6. There are a number of new software modules involved with the new archive interface, that you will see on these screens: POSTORIUS, HYPERKITTY, MAILMAN. These are all part of the MAILMAN software suite, free software distributed under the GNU General Public Licence, and are used by many organizations worldwide, including Ancestry/Rootsweb. 7. Please bear with us as we make changes to the DVHH website, as we will need to review references to the mailing list and the archives, and make changes to the pages, as there have been changes to the directory/file naming conventions and mailing lists requests. 8. Have fun with the new look! Don't feel discouraged if you are having trouble navigating the new screens - I belong to the LISTOWNERS mailing list for Rootsweb mailing list owners/administrators and it's quite obvious from the posts there that we are all experiencing some degree of frustration. This is typical of any major software change, and I firmly believe that in the end, it will be worth it! It has been some time since ROOTSWEB was updated, which makes the leap to the new software higher and longer. ----------------------------------------------- Darlene ​Dimitrie​ DVHH Mailing List Administrator ​​

Hi again Linda, I believe that Karen makes a very good point. For some reason, at least in Bogarosch and likely elsewhere, there was a reason for distinguishing GRNU from other denominations. I cannot send attachments on the list, but I will send you personally the page from the Familienbuch Bogarosch that contains the abbreviations for denominations. The point I am making here is that there were abbreviations for Lutheran, Calvinists, Reformed, Evangelical, and other Protestant denominations, so the GRNU was presumably viewed as different and independent of those others. Though we may never know what that denomination believed, or even why the “Greek” reference, I agree with Karen that it some meaning and importance at the time that it was ascribed to particular individuals. > On Mar 29, 2018, at 2:48 PM, karen mcbride <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello Linda, > I would suggest you consider the designations culturally or sociologically rather than in regard to Liturgy. In the Towns and Villages for hundreds of years, a culture of "them" and "us" existed..mostly due to persecution and pogroms by governments. There was of course antisemitism and ghettos for Jews, but also there was great awareness of who was classic Roman Catholic, who was Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Lutheran Evangelical, etc. Religion determined for several hundred years who could actually migrate to the Banat area and when. As a result, when the records were originally made, labels were paramount and fairly specific as to what Church you belonged. The labels were transcribed to the FBs with as much precision as possible as I understand it and so labels that made great sense in the past may not be so obvious now. > Karen McBride > > On Thursday, March 29, 2018 1:25 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > So, after making my way through a variety of articles online about various churches, I have to admit I still don’t really understand what “GRNU" is getting at. > > Protestants like Lutherans or Calvinists (Reformed) as Christians not Roman/Greek Catholic and not Greek Orthodox, as Dan suggested, would make sense. I’m not sure then why the “Greek” part of the label - I can’t find any mention of differences in liturgy, etc. between those groups in the Banat and elsewhere. And the GRNU abbreviation itself doesn’t seem that common in the other FBs I’ve looked at, though maybe that’s just a function of the religions prevalent in each town. > > This would just be one of those things that I’d notice and then move on, except of course it’s a label attached to a possible relative and now I feel compelled to understand it. :-) > > -Linda > > > On Mar 28, 2018, at 6:35 PM, Rose Mary Keller Hughes <[email protected]> wrote: > >> In Semlak, there is a Greek Orthodox church. I don't know how large their congregation is but the church looks quite nice. However, the DS churches in the community look lovely in photos until someone points out the cracks in the walls and ceilings. >> >> Rose Mary >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 3:40 PM >> To: Linda Sohl <[email protected]>; DVHH Mail List <[email protected]>; Roy Engel <[email protected]> >> Subject: [DVHH] Re: GRNU abbreviation? >> >> Linda, >> >> Though I’m not an expert in this field, I interpreted that to mean a Greek church in the Protestant tradition, rather than Orthodox or Catholic. I believe that such Greek denominations were a small minority at that time in comparison to Orthodox and Catholic. I’ve never run across any in my research, but they are obviously out there, based on your question and the abbreviation reference in the Familienbuch Bogarosch. Here is a link that might explain this better than I can. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches> >> >> Best to you in your research. >> >> Dan >> >> >>> On Mar 28, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for that information, Dan. It does lead me to an obvious follow-up question, though - which churches (then, or now) would be considered "Greek, not united" that are neither Greek-Catholic (one of the 23 churches in communion with Rome, listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_particular_churches_and_liturgical_rites#Particular_churches_sui_iuris ), nor Greek Orthodox? >>> >>> -Linda >>> >>> >>> On Mar 28, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> In the Abkürzungen (abbreviations) section of the Familienbuch Bogarosch, under Konfessionen (Religious Denominations), grnu is Griechisch nicht uniert (Greek not united), differentiated from go (Griechisch-orthodox) and grka (Griechisch-katholisch). >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 27, 2018, at 11:44 PM, Roy Engel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have never seen that abbreviation before. I am assuming that it is German and I can't think what the GR would stand for, but the NU might stand for "Namen Unbekannt" (Name Unknown). This is just a guess. >>>>> Roy >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:54 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In the new Gross Betschkerek familienbuch, does anyone know what the abbreviation “GRNU” means? It’s not listed up front with other abbreviations (or else I’ve overlooked it). I see it following some people’s names, where there might otherwise be a note about a person’s occupation or marital status. >>>>> >>>>> -Linda >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > >

Hi all, When I visited Jimbolia (Hatzfeld) in 2012, I met with the St. Wendelin’s church administrator and viewed handwritten baptismal records for my maternal grandmother and uncle from 1893 and 1895. I also visited the city hall in Vladimirescu (Glogowatz) ((St. Johann’s was locked up that day) and viewed my paternal grandparents’ wedding record of 1905 and a birth record of an infant child from 1906 - all written in Hungarian. I was not permitted to take photos as the authorities were afraid I was pursuing retribution - which I was not. The authorities there told me I could obtain grandparents’ birth certificates at the civil records in Arad. I would think, for Jimbolia, you would get birth records from the civil records in either Timisoara or Arad. I hope that helps! Kathy Zollner Meany > On Mar 30, 2018, at 6:57 AM, FREY Tamas <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello Nathália, > > Do you know what religion your grandfather was? > > It might be easier to contact the local church. > > If your grandpa was born in 1921, it was only a year after the town had been taken from Hungary and made part of Serbia-Croatia. I would imagine that you have a better chance of finding church records than public records. > > Maybe you could start by writing to the email on this page: http://www.danube-places.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=194&catid=39&lang=en&Itemid=313 > > > Tamás Frey > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nathália G. <[email protected]> > Sent: jeudi 29 mars 2018 19:48 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [DVHH] Birth Certificate in Romania > > Hello! > > I am Nathália and I've been a member of the forum for a while, since I am looking for my family's information. > Many of you, including Fran and Nick, have helped me with it, which I truly appreciate ???????? > > Does anyone know how I could find a birth certificate in Romania, more specifically, in Jimbolia? > > > The thing is my grandfather Johann MENDLER (János Miklós Mendler) was born in November 20th, 1921 or 1922 in Hatzfeld/Czombol, in former Yugoslavia > --- today called Jimbolia, in Timis County, Romania. > He and the family came to my country, Brazil, because of the war. > > I need a proof of his birth, but I have no clue in which Primaria (city > hall) it might be, since I don't know anyone in Romania and have never been in the country. > > Could anyone help me? > I would truly appreciate it > > Thank you! > >

Hello Nathália, Do you know what religion your grandfather was? It might be easier to contact the local church. If your grandpa was born in 1921, it was only a year after the town had been taken from Hungary and made part of Serbia-Croatia. I would imagine that you have a better chance of finding church records than public records. Maybe you could start by writing to the email on this page: http://www.danube-places.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=194&catid=39&lang=en&Itemid=313 Tamás Frey -----Original Message----- From: Nathália G. <[email protected]> Sent: jeudi 29 mars 2018 19:48 To: [email protected] Subject: [DVHH] Birth Certificate in Romania Hello! I am Nathália and I've been a member of the forum for a while, since I am looking for my family's information. Many of you, including Fran and Nick, have helped me with it, which I truly appreciate ???????? Does anyone know how I could find a birth certificate in Romania, more specifically, in Jimbolia? The thing is my grandfather Johann MENDLER (János Miklós Mendler) was born in November 20th, 1921 or 1922 in Hatzfeld/Czombol, in former Yugoslavia --- today called Jimbolia, in Timis County, Romania. He and the family came to my country, Brazil, because of the war. I need a proof of his birth, but I have no clue in which Primaria (city hall) it might be, since I don't know anyone in Romania and have never been in the country. Could anyone help me? I would truly appreciate it Thank you!

Hello Susan, Your ancestor was probably called "Komlóssy" (potentially also spellt as Komlósy/Komlósi). It's a Hungarian name, and most likely a noble name. Correct spelling of names: "Komlóssy László" "Komlóssy Vilmos" In Hungarian, last name always comes first. William=Vilmos. After just a quick Google search, you might be related to this family since they also seem to have members in Arad: http://komlossy.hu/index.php?op=sze&id=1026 Kind regards, Tamás Frey -----Original Message----- From: Susan Dekom via DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES <[email protected]> Sent: vendredi 30 mars 2018 10:15 To: Donauschwaben Villages Helping Hands (DVHH) <[email protected]> Cc: Susan Dekom <[email protected]> Subject: [DVHH] Re: Birth Certificate in Romania I have a similar situation. Fathers birth: Born Hungary. Arad area now Romania. Has name lazlo komlossey ir komlossy. And grandfather: “william” komlossey or komlossy. Found death info. No history of him. Susan > On Mar 29, 2018, at 10:47 AM, Nathália G. <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello! > > I am Nathália and I've been a member of the forum for a while, since I > am looking for my family's information. > Many of you, including Fran and Nick, have helped me with it, which I > truly appreciate ???????? > > Does anyone know how I could find a birth certificate in Romania, more > specifically, in Jimbolia? > > > The thing is my grandfather Johann MENDLER (János Miklós Mendler) was > born in November 20th, 1921 or 1922 in Hatzfeld/Czombol, in former > Yugoslavia > --- today called Jimbolia, in Timis County, Romania. > He and the family came to my country, Brazil, because of the war. > > I need a proof of his birth, but I have no clue in which Primaria > (city > hall) it might be, since I don't know anyone in Romania and have never > been in the country. > > Could anyone help me? > I would truly appreciate it > > Thank you! >

I have a similar situation. Fathers birth: Born Hungary. Arad area now Romania. Has name lazlo komlossey ir komlossy. And grandfather: “william” komlossey or komlossy. Found death info. No history of him. Susan > On Mar 29, 2018, at 10:47 AM, Nathália G. <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello! > > I am Nathália and I've been a member of the forum for a while, since I am > looking for my family's information. > Many of you, including Fran and Nick, have helped me with it, which I truly > appreciate ???????? > > Does anyone know how I could find a birth certificate in Romania, more > specifically, in Jimbolia? > > > The thing is my grandfather Johann MENDLER (János Miklós Mendler) was born > in November 20th, 1921 or 1922 in Hatzfeld/Czombol, in former Yugoslavia > --- today called Jimbolia, in Timis County, Romania. > He and the family came to my country, Brazil, because of the war. > > I need a proof of his birth, but I have no clue in which Primaria (city > hall) it might be, since I don't know anyone in Romania and have never been > in the country. > > Could anyone help me? > I would truly appreciate it > > Thank you! >

Does this help? From Wikipedia: "Gross Betschkerek" Religion Edit According to the 2002 census, most of the inhabitants of the Zrenjanin municipality were Orthodox Christians (77.28%). Other faiths include Roman Catholic (12.01%), Protestant (2.13%), and other. Orthodox Christians in Zrenjanin belong to the Eparchy of Banat of the Serbian Orthodox Church with seat in Vršac. Zrenjanin is also the centre of the Roman Catholic diocese of the Banat region belonging to Serbia. Sounds like it was Greek Orthodox but later became disconnected as Serbian Orthodox Church....maybe. Alice Uspenska Church Catholic Cathedral Zrenjanin Sent from my iPad > On Mar 29, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: > > So, after making my way through a variety of articles online about various churches, I have to admit I still don’t really understand what “GRNU" is getting at. > > Protestants like Lutherans or Calvinists (Reformed) as Christians not Roman/Greek Catholic and not Greek Orthodox, as Dan suggested, would make sense. I’m not sure then why the “Greek” part of the label - I can’t find any mention of differences in liturgy, etc. between those groups in the Banat and elsewhere. And the GRNU abbreviation itself doesn’t seem that common in the other FBs I’ve looked at, though maybe that’s just a function of the religions prevalent in each town. > > This would just be one of those things that I’d notice and then move on, except of course it’s a label attached to a possible relative and now I feel compelled to understand it. :-) > > -Linda > > >> On Mar 28, 2018, at 6:35 PM, Rose Mary Keller Hughes <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> In Semlak, there is a Greek Orthodox church. I don't know how large their congregation is but the church looks quite nice. However, the DS churches in the community look lovely in photos until someone points out the cracks in the walls and ceilings. >> >> Rose Mary >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 3:40 PM >> To: Linda Sohl <[email protected]>; DVHH Mail List <[email protected]>; Roy Engel <[email protected]> >> Subject: [DVHH] Re: GRNU abbreviation? >> >> Linda, >> >> Though I’m not an expert in this field, I interpreted that to mean a Greek church in the Protestant tradition, rather than Orthodox or Catholic. I believe that such Greek denominations were a small minority at that time in comparison to Orthodox and Catholic. I’ve never run across any in my research, but they are obviously out there, based on your question and the abbreviation reference in the Familienbuch Bogarosch. Here is a link that might explain this better than I can. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches> >> >> Best to you in your research. >> >> Dan >> >> >>> On Mar 28, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for that information, Dan. It does lead me to an obvious follow-up question, though - which churches (then, or now) would be considered "Greek, not united" that are neither Greek-Catholic (one of the 23 churches in communion with Rome, listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_particular_churches_and_liturgical_rites#Particular_churches_sui_iuris ), nor Greek Orthodox? >>> >>> -Linda >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 28, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> In the Abkürzungen (abbreviations) section of the Familienbuch Bogarosch, under Konfessionen (Religious Denominations), grnu is Griechisch nicht uniert (Greek not united), differentiated from go (Griechisch-orthodox) and grka (Griechisch-katholisch). >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 27, 2018, at 11:44 PM, Roy Engel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have never seen that abbreviation before. I am assuming that it is German and I can't think what the GR would stand for, but the NU might stand for "Namen Unbekannt" (Name Unknown). This is just a guess. >>>>> Roy >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:54 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In the new Gross Betschkerek familienbuch, does anyone know what the abbreviation “GRNU” means? It’s not listed up front with other abbreviations (or else I’ve overlooked it). I see it following some people’s names, where there might otherwise be a note about a person’s occupation or marital status. >>>>> >>>>> -Linda >> >> >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >

Glad to hear it Robert and look forward to seeing you again. Waiting to hear if we will have a table in one of the areas for eating, visiting and watching the dancers. Eve On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Robert Horvath <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Fellow DVHHers! > > > > I intend to attend in Kitchener this year … I live in Kitchener so I would > feel guilty if I didn’t ???? > > > > See you on Labour Day Weekend! > > > > Bob > > > > Robert Horvath > > Kitchener, ON, Canada > > [email protected] > > > -- Syrmia Regional Coordinator http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia

Hello Linda, I would suggest you consider the designations culturally or sociologically rather than in regard to Liturgy.  In the Towns and Villages for hundreds of years, a culture of "them" and "us" existed..mostly due to persecution and pogroms by governments.  There was of course antisemitism and ghettos for Jews, but also there was great awareness of who was classic Roman Catholic, who was Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Lutheran Evangelical, etc.  Religion determined for several hundred years who could actually migrate to the Banat area and when. As a result, when the records were originally made, labels were paramount and fairly specific as to what Church you belonged.  The labels were transcribed to the FBs with as much precision as possible as I understand it and so labels that made great sense in the past may not be so obvious now. Karen McBride      On Thursday, March 29, 2018 1:25 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: So, after making my way through a variety of articles online about various churches, I have to admit I still don’t really understand what “GRNU" is getting at. Protestants like Lutherans or Calvinists (Reformed) as Christians not Roman/Greek Catholic and not Greek Orthodox, as Dan suggested, would make sense.  I’m not sure then why the “Greek” part of the label - I can’t find any mention of differences in liturgy, etc. between those groups in the Banat and elsewhere. And the GRNU abbreviation itself doesn’t seem that common in the other FBs I’ve looked at, though maybe that’s just a function of the religions prevalent in each town. This would just be one of those things that I’d notice and then move on, except of course it’s a label attached to a possible relative and now I feel compelled to understand it. :-)  -Linda On Mar 28, 2018, at 6:35 PM, Rose Mary Keller Hughes <[email protected]> wrote: > In Semlak, there is a Greek Orthodox church.  I don't know how large their congregation is but the church looks quite nice. However, the DS churches in the community look lovely in photos until someone points out the cracks in the walls and ceilings. > > Rose Mary > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 3:40 PM > To: Linda Sohl <[email protected]>; DVHH Mail List <[email protected]>; Roy Engel <[email protected]> > Subject: [DVHH] Re: GRNU abbreviation? > > Linda, > > Though I’m not an expert in this field, I interpreted that to mean a Greek church in the Protestant tradition, rather than Orthodox or Catholic.  I believe that such Greek denominations were a small minority at that time in comparison to Orthodox and Catholic.  I’ve never run across any in my research, but they are obviously out there, based on your question and the abbreviation reference in the Familienbuch Bogarosch.  Here is a link that might explain this better than I can. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_and_uniting_churches> > > Best to you in your research. > > Dan > > >> On Mar 28, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks for that information, Dan. It does lead me to an obvious follow-up question, though - which churches (then, or now) would be considered "Greek, not united" that are neither Greek-Catholic (one of the 23 churches in communion with Rome, listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_particular_churches_and_liturgical_rites#Particular_churches_sui_iuris ), nor Greek Orthodox? >> >> -Linda >> >> >> On Mar 28, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Daniel Sedley <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> In the Abkürzungen (abbreviations) section of the Familienbuch Bogarosch, under Konfessionen (Religious Denominations), grnu is Griechisch nicht uniert (Greek not united), differentiated from go (Griechisch-orthodox) and grka (Griechisch-katholisch). >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 27, 2018, at 11:44 PM, Roy Engel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I have never seen that abbreviation before.  I am assuming that it is German and I can't think what the GR would stand for, but the NU might stand for "Namen Unbekannt" (Name Unknown).  This is just a guess. >>>> Roy >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:54 PM, Linda Sohl <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> In the new Gross Betschkerek familienbuch, does anyone know what the abbreviation “GRNU” means? It’s not listed up front with other abbreviations (or else I’ve overlooked it). I see it following some people’s names, where there might otherwise be a note about a person’s occupation or marital status. >>>> >>>> -Linda >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hello! I am Nathália and I've been a member of the forum for a while, since I am looking for my family's information. Many of you, including Fran and Nick, have helped me with it, which I truly appreciate ???????? Does anyone know how I could find a birth certificate in Romania, more specifically, in Jimbolia? The thing is my grandfather Johann MENDLER (János Miklós Mendler) was born in November 20th, 1921 or 1922 in Hatzfeld/Czombol, in former Yugoslavia --- today called Jimbolia, in Timis County, Romania. He and the family came to my country, Brazil, because of the war. I need a proof of his birth, but I have no clue in which Primaria (city hall) it might be, since I don't know anyone in Romania and have never been in the country. Could anyone help me? I would truly appreciate it Thank you!

Hello Fellow DVHHers! I intend to attend in Kitchener this year … I live in Kitchener so I would feel guilty if I didn’t ???? See you on Labour Day Weekend! Bob Robert Horvath Kitchener, ON, Canada [email protected]