Hello, I joined this mailing list to learn more about my heritage. What I am seeing on some of these messages is really mind boggling but I'm wondering if there is a better way for these messages to be group for those interested in the subjects being discussed? Anyone know if a way to organize by subject? Then if someone us interested they can get those messages and not have to weed through all of these and the responses to them. Thank you Peggy Chrusciel Sent from my iPhone

Thank you very much. ----- Original Message ----- From: MFCobb1@aol.com To: bbd2424@gmail.com ; islandkaren@bellsouth.net ; dvhalas@comcast.net ; jfschambre@comcast.net ; easimcox@gmail.com Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com ; MFCobb1@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank you for the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a formal and elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both for you time and effort. Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, Austria-Hungary) Newberg Oregon In a message dated 4/30/2014 11:03:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bbd2424@gmail.com writes: Karen, That was so FABULOUSLY said!!!!!!! I am 2 generationS removed and it help put things in the proper perspective . I hope everyone will see it the same way Thanks, Barb Dannenbeg -----Original Message----- From: islandkaren Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:24 PM To: Diane Halas ; 'John Schambre' ; 'Eileen Simcox' Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent individually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it Fabulous!! Karen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net> To: "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" <easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. > "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered > herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher > who > in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in > Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified > their > primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine > and > her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat > before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned > about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. > > Diane > > Diane Halas > 239-592-9969 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Schambre > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM > To: Eileen Simcox > Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Hi Eileen: > > Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. > My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always > told > me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in > France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that > I > am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - > which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. > > I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the > tests > too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern > European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from > the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know > there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect > my > maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish > blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European > roots > come from. > > Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the > name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the > 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area > but > I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching > English > records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as > primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I > might > have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll > need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. > > So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed > have > British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in > Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in > time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't > worry > too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be > interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We > are > German! Period! :-)) > > All the best in your research. > John > > > John F. Schambre > San Francisco, CA > > > > On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox <easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined >> DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? >> I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've >> felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I >> would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . >> >> Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der >> Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four >> grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. >> >> I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which >> should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, >> Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at >> the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify > the results or negate them . . . >> I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated >> that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA > testing? >> >> Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a >> fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from >> her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating >> at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel >> dough for poppy seed strudel! :( >> >> Thank you, >> Eileen Gauder Simcox >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks very much Barb. Good, bad or ugly I absolutely have zero intention of offending. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barb D" <bbd2424@gmail.com> To: "islandkaren" <islandkaren@bellsouth.net>; "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net>; "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" <easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > Karen, > That was so FABULOUSLY said!!!!!!! I am 2 generationS removed and it help > put things in the proper perspective . I hope everyone will see it the > same way > Thanks, > Barb Dannenbeg > > -----Original Message----- > From: islandkaren > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:24 PM > To: Diane Halas ; 'John Schambre' ; 'Eileen Simcox' > Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Hi Diane: > > With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that > your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed > during > the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the > Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the > "barbarian' > Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is > a > vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period > in > history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the > geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early > 1800s > and going forward. > > I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick > Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real > time > in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I > disagree > with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then > becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs > your > personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as > well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description > of > your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which > happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the > fact > that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive > identity > to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all > 'Germans' then". > > It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time > probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more > period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over > greater > Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity > that > is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to > the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful > and > productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their > "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their > "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge > variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, > education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village > group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to > them, speaks to that fact and informs it. > > None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or > identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far > richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a > collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", > but > rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness > of > ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving > "Village" > identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and > a > courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent > individually. > > There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was > born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, > Italian, > French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the > best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian > and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. > Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call > it > Fabulous!! > > Karen. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net> > To: "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" > <easimcox@gmail.com> > Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > >>I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. >> "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered >> herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher >> who >> in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in >> Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified >> their >> primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine >> and >> her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat >> before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned >> about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. >> >> Diane >> >> Diane Halas >> 239-592-9969 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John >> Schambre >> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM >> To: Eileen Simcox >> Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >> >> Hi Eileen: >> >> Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. >> My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always >> told >> me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in >> France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows >> that >> I >> am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - >> which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. >> >> I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the >> tests >> too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the >> Southern >> European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from >> the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know >> there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect >> my >> maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish >> blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European >> roots >> come from. >> >> Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that >> the >> name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the >> 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area >> but >> I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching >> English >> records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as >> primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I >> might >> have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and >> I'll >> need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. >> >> So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed >> have >> British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in >> Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in >> time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't >> worry >> too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be >> interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We >> are >> German! Period! :-)) >> >> All the best in your research. >> John >> >> >> John F. Schambre >> San Francisco, CA >> >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox <easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined >>> DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? >>> I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've >>> felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I >>> would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . >>> >>> Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der >>> Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four >>> grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. >>> >>> I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which >>> should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, >>> Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at >>> the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify >> the results or negate them . . . >>> I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated >>> that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA >> testing? >>> >>> Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a >>> fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from >>> her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating >>> at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel >>> dough for poppy seed strudel! :( >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Eileen Gauder Simcox >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This discussion seems to never die. I put togeher a few points about the nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the issue. The long-time followers of this List may want to skip them 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or they can form a national minority. 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were multinational because of the presence of national minorities). 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of nationality by the country of birth would have been impossible. Attempts to change their nationality by force were never completely successful. 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by birth or by naturalization. 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily citizenship). 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized national minority. That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a well-established historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, history, language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language literature, in the arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was finally demonstrated by their recent (by historical time) immigration to and integration in the country of their ancestors. The latter are the vast majority; we in the New World (North America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we are free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors made their own decisions. May they rest in peace! Nick Tullius -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of islandkaren Sent: 30-Apr-14 13:24 To: Diane Halas; 'John Schambre'; 'Eileen Simcox' Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent individually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it Fabulous!! Karen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Halas" < <mailto:dvhalas@comcast.net> dvhalas@comcast.net> To: "'John Schambre'" < <mailto:jfschambre@comcast.net> jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" < <mailto:easimcox@gmail.com> easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: < <mailto:donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. > "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered > herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher > who > in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in > Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified > their > primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine > and > her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat > before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned > about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. > > Diane > > Diane Halas > 239-592-9969 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: <mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [ <mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com> mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Schambre > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM > To: Eileen Simcox > Cc: <mailto:donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Hi Eileen: > > Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. > My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always > told > me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in > France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that > I > am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - > which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. > > I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the > tests > too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern > European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from > the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know > there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect > my > maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish > blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European > roots > come from. > > Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the > name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the > 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area > but > I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching > English > records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as > primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I > might > have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll > need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. > > So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed > have > British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in > Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in > time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't > worry > too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be > interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We > are > German! Period! :-)) > > All the best in your research. > John > > > John F. Schambre > San Francisco, CA > > > > On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox < <mailto:easimcox@gmail.com> easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined >> DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? >> I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've >> felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I >> would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . >> >> Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der >> Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four >> grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. >> >> I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which >> should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, >> Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at >> the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify > the results or negate them . . . >> I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated >> that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA > testing? >> >> Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a >> fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from >> her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating >> at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel >> dough for poppy seed strudel! :( >> >> Thank you, >> Eileen Gauder Simcox >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As long a new people are looking into their family history, this hopefully will always be an often asked question. ------------------- Jim Heil > On Apr 30, 2014, at 2:11 PM, "Nick Tullius" <ntullius@rogers.com> wrote: > > This discussion seems to never die. I put togeher a few points about the > nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the issue. The > long-time followers of this List may want to skip them > > > > 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people sharing > common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or they > can form a national minority. > > 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the governments of > the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were > multinational because of the presence of national minorities). > > 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the > territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of nationality > by the country of birth would have been impossible. Attempts to change their > nationality by force were never completely successful. > > 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and > citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by birth or by > naturalization. > > 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in the > ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily > citizenship). > > 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a > nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized national > minority. > > > > That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a well-established > historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, history, > language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language literature, in the > arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was finally demonstrated by > their recent (by historical time) immigration to and integration in the > country of their ancestors. The latter are the vast majority; we in the New > World (North America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we > are free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors made > their own decisions. May they rest in peace! > > > > Nick Tullius > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > islandkaren > Sent: 30-Apr-14 13:24 > To: Diane Halas; 'John Schambre'; 'Eileen Simcox' > Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > > > Hi Diane: > > > > With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that > your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during > the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the > Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' > > Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a > vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in > history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the > geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s > and going forward. > > > > I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick > Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time > in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree > with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then > becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your > personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as > well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of > your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which > happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact > that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity > to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all > 'Germans' then". > > > > It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time > probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more > period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater > Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that > is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to > the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and > productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their > "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their > "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge > variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, > education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village > group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to > them, speaks to that fact and informs it. > > > > None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or > identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far > richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a > collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but > rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of > ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" > > identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a > courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent > individually. > > > > There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was > born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, > French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the > best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian > and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. > > Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it > Fabulous!! > > > > Karen. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Diane Halas" < <mailto:dvhalas@comcast.net> dvhalas@comcast.net> > > To: "'John Schambre'" < <mailto:jfschambre@comcast.net> > jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" > > < <mailto:easimcox@gmail.com> easimcox@gmail.com> > > Cc: < <mailto:donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > > > > >> I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. > >> "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered > >> herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher > >> who > >> in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in > >> Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified > >> their > >> primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine > >> and > >> her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat > >> before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned > >> about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. > > >> Diane > > >> Diane Halas > >> 239-592-9969 > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: <mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com> > donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > >> [ <mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com> > mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > >> Schambre > >> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM > >> To: Eileen Simcox > >> Cc: <mailto:donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > >> Hi Eileen: > > >> Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. > >> My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always > >> told > >> me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in > >> France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that > > >> I > >> am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - > >> which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. > > >> I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the > >> tests > >> too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern > >> European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from > >> the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know > >> there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect > >> my > >> maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish > >> blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European > >> roots > >> come from. > > >> Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the > >> name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the > >> 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area > >> but > >> I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching > >> English > >> records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as > >> primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I > >> might > >> have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll > >> need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. > > >> So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed > >> have > >> British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in > >> Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in > >> time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't > >> worry > >> too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be > >> interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We > >> are > >> German! Period! :-)) > > >> All the best in your research. > >> John > > > >> John F. Schambre > >> San Francisco, CA > > > > >> On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox < <mailto:easimcox@gmail.com> > easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> Hi Everyone, > > >>> I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined > >>> DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? > >>> I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've > >>> felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I > >>> would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . > > >>> Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der > >>> Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four > >>> grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. > > >>> I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which > >>> should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, > >>> Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at > >>> the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify > >> the results or negate them . . . > >>> I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated > >>> that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA > >> testing? > > >>> Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a > >>> fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from > >>> her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating > >>> at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel > >>> dough for poppy seed strudel! :( > > >>> Thank you, > >>> Eileen Gauder Simcox > > > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> message > > > > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank you for the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a formal and elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both for you time and effort. Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, Austria-Hungary) Newberg Oregon In a message dated 4/30/2014 11:03:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bbd2424@gmail.com writes: Karen, That was so FABULOUSLY said!!!!!!! I am 2 generationS removed and it help put things in the proper perspective . I hope everyone will see it the same way Thanks, Barb Dannenbeg -----Original Message----- From: islandkaren Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:24 PM To: Diane Halas ; 'John Schambre' ; 'Eileen Simcox' Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent individually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it Fabulous!! Karen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net> To: "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" <easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. > "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered > herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher > who > in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in > Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified > their > primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine > and > her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat > before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned > about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. > > Diane > > Diane Halas > 239-592-9969 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Schambre > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM > To: Eileen Simcox > Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Hi Eileen: > > Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. > My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always > told > me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in > France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that > I > am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - > which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. > > I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the > tests > too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern > European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from > the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know > there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect > my > maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish > blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European > roots > come from. > > Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the > name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the > 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area > but > I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching > English > records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as > primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I > might > have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll > need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. > > So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed > have > British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in > Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in > time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't > worry > too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be > interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We > are > German! Period! :-)) > > All the best in your research. > John > > > John F. Schambre > San Francisco, CA > > > > On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox <easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined >> DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? >> I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've >> felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I >> would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . >> >> Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der >> Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four >> grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. >> >> I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which >> should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, >> Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at >> the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify > the results or negate them . . . >> I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated >> that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA > testing? >> >> Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a >> fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from >> her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating >> at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel >> dough for poppy seed strudel! :( >> >> Thank you, >> Eileen Gauder Simcox >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent individually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it Fabulous!! Karen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net> To: "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" <easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. > "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered > herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher > who > in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in > Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified > their > primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine > and > her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat > before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned > about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. > > Diane > > Diane Halas > 239-592-9969 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Schambre > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM > To: Eileen Simcox > Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Hi Eileen: > > Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. > My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always > told > me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in > France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that > I > am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - > which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. > > I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the > tests > too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern > European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from > the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know > there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect > my > maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish > blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European > roots > come from. > > Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the > name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the > 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area > but > I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching > English > records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as > primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I > might > have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll > need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. > > So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed > have > British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in > Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in > time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't > worry > too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be > interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We > are > German! Period! :-)) > > All the best in your research. > John > > > John F. Schambre > San Francisco, CA > > > > On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox <easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined >> DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? >> I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've >> felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I >> would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . >> >> Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der >> Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four >> grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. >> >> I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which >> should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, >> Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at >> the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify > the results or negate them . . . >> I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated >> that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA > testing? >> >> Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a >> fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from >> her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating >> at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel >> dough for poppy seed strudel! :( >> >> Thank you, >> Eileen Gauder Simcox >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Karen, That was so FABULOUSLY said!!!!!!! I am 2 generationS removed and it help put things in the proper perspective . I hope everyone will see it the same way Thanks, Barb Dannenbeg -----Original Message----- From: islandkaren Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:24 PM To: Diane Halas ; 'John Schambre' ; 'Eileen Simcox' Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Hi Diane: With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a guess that your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, but not the "barbarian' Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with Nick Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your story and many others described on this list as well as my own, informs this discussion totally. After your description of your conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a real time probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought or identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively and magnificent individually. There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And she was born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious affiliations during her lifetime. Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I call it Fabulous!! Karen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Halas" <dvhalas@comcast.net> To: "'John Schambre'" <jfschambre@comcast.net>; "'Eileen Simcox'" <easimcox@gmail.com> Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. > "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered > herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher > who > in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in > Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified > their > primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine > and > her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat > before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned > about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. > > Diane > > Diane Halas > 239-592-9969 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Schambre > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM > To: Eileen Simcox > Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > > Hi Eileen: > > Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. > My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always > told > me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in > France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that > I > am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - > which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. > > I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the > tests > too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern > European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from > the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know > there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect > my > maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish > blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European > roots > come from. > > Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the > name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the > 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area > but > I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching > English > records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as > primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I > might > have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll > need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. > > So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed > have > British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in > Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in > time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't > worry > too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be > interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We > are > German! Period! :-)) > > All the best in your research. > John > > > John F. Schambre > San Francisco, CA > > > > On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox <easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined >> DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? >> I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've >> felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I >> would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . >> >> Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der >> Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four >> grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. >> >> I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which >> should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, >> Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at >> the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify > the results or negate them . . . >> I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated >> that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA > testing? >> >> Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a >> fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from >> her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating >> at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel >> dough for poppy seed strudel! :( >> >> Thank you, >> Eileen Gauder Simcox >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I once asked my grandma why she had said the family was German. She said. "My dear, we were all 'Germans' then." I asked her what she considered herself and she said, "Austro-Hungarian". I told my fifth grade teacher who in turn told me there was no such place as Austria-Hungary. Everyone in Grandma's nuclear family spoke more than one language. She identified their primary language as "low German" and her family was from Alsace-Lorraine and her grandmother was pure French. The family had emigrated to the Banat before there was a "Germany". There you have it. I never even learned about Schwabish until I subscribed to this site. Diane Diane Halas 239-592-9969 -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Schambre Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:52 PM To: Eileen Simcox Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results Hi Eileen: Found your DNA story interesting as mine showed up as a big surprise too. My grandparents came to the US in 1914 from Wiesenhaid and they always told me 'we are German' period! I never heard of anything about ancestors in France, etc. But when I did my DNA the real surprise came: It shows that I am: 1/3 British Isles, 1/3 Northern European and 1/3 Southern European - which, according to Ancestry.com info means Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. I didn't believe it either, so I had my my aunt and my sister take the tests too - their results came out very similar to mine, except for the Southern European. So, I had my mother do her DNA. Her father was Hungarian from the start - so I thought, but he had quite dark skin and now that I know there were all sorts of people living in Hungary in the 1800's I suspect my maternal grandfather had either Italian, Greek or possibly even Turkish blood in him and I'm nearly certain that is where my Southern European roots come from. Now, the British Isles really stumped me until a research told me that the name Chambre is very common in Ireland and england as far back as the 1300's!! I still have not confirmed that I had relatives from that area but I'm looking into it and, in fact, on Ancestry.com I was researching English records and hit upon a Chambre from the mid-late 1400's who was named as primary physician to King Kenry the 8th!! I laughed, thinking that I might have had a famous relaltive -- but that is going WAY back in time and I'll need a lot more than one document to make me believe he is of my family. So, especially if you are from the Alsace-Lorraine area, you may indeed have British blood in your line since I was advised that many French lived in Ireland and England back in those days. Oh, if only we could go back in time just to look and see for ourselves where we came from :-)) Don't worry too much though - at least for me I find the different DNA readings to be interesting but in my mind and heart I still believe my Grandfather: We are German! Period! :-)) All the best in your research. John John F. Schambre San Francisco, CA On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Eileen Simcox <easimcox@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I find the conversation regarding the history fascinating. I joined > DVHH several years ago, but I thought it was a yearly subscription? > I've never gotten a yearly notice to "re-up my membership"? So, I've > felt guilty about posting in the emails, as if I am eavesdropping? I > would be happy to pay an annual fee, if that is what is required . . . > > Many of you found my paternal line in the Familienbuch Kernei in der > Batschka (which I now own also). In my maternal line, three of my four > grandmothers are descended from the Luther line, also German. > > I recently had my DNA tested from ancestry.com and my results which > should have been "heavily German" were: Great Britain 72%, > Italy/Greece 9%, Europe West 9%, Trace Regions 14%. I was so upset at > the results! I am German!!! I am trying to find a way to either justify the results or negate them . . . > I recently heard a story on NPR from a black man whose DNA indicated > that he had 0% African. Has anyone else had this experience with DNA testing? > > Also, I am grateful for all of the recipes. My grandmother was a > fantastic cook and I so regret not learning the family recipes from > her. I find the recipes talked about here are what I remember eating > at her house. I especially regret not learning how to pull the strudel > dough for poppy seed strudel! :( > > Thank you, > Eileen Gauder Simcox > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Finally working but it's with my android phone. Better than nothing. Still cannot select "latinica" so I only get Cyrillic characters. And no hits on any of my family names. I know there were Buchmann's in Detta in 1964, from a letter from my Great Aunt. So maybe my family members were never rounded up. On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 1:32 AM, Gaby Curtis-Hayward <gabyh@adam.com.au>wrote: > It takes quite some time to load. The page appears blank with no sign of > anything happening but suddenly it appears. > > Gaby > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 8:49 am, mep <res00fr1@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Has to be me... or my ISP. cannot select anything with any of my > > browsers... > > > > I will have to try another machine. > > > > Thanks everyone > > > > > > > >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Harold <bhbrat24@q.com> wrote: > >> > >> Works fine with Google chrome also, Harold > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Paul Kurst" <pgkurst@gmail.com> > >> To: "Rita Schiwanowitsch" <schiwanore@msn.com> > >> Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:16:53 PM > >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] [BANAT-L] Fw: > >> > >> The link works fine with my Firefox. This is the link to the actual > site > >> that lists the names - http://goliotok.uimenaroda.net/ > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Rita Schiwanowitsch < > schiwanore@msn.com > >>> wrote: > >> > >>> I guess I am late hearing about Microsoft's problem, because that is > what > >>> I am using. When I get home tonight, I will post another way of > >> accessing > >>> the info. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Rita > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:27:24 -0700 > >>> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Fw: > >>> From: res00fr1@gmail.com > >>> To: schiwanore@msn.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Rita, > >>> > >>> Thank you for the link but it seems to be unresponsive. None of the > >>> controls do anything. Is there a secret to getting any info from the > >> sight. > >>> > >>> I am using Microsoft's advice and not using Internet Explorer until > their > >>> bug is fixed so I am using the Firefox browser. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 5:15 AM, Rita Schiwanowitsch < > schiwanore@msn.com > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > >>> > >>> > >>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the > >>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an > >> exhibition > >>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. > >> > http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes > >>> in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am trying to determine whether HAUMANN, Ares might have been a relative on my father's side. I have only the sketchiest of information, but I can share what little I know. Ares HAUMANN died sometime in 1999, possibly in Britain, or maybe Spain or Argentina. That's it. If we are related, it would likely be as first cousins (possibly a son of one of my father's brothers). My father is HAUMANN, Stefan, b-1904 (Palanka), d-1981 (Cleveland) The brothers... HAUMANN, Johann, b-1894 HAUMANN, Martin, b-1896 HAUMANN, Jakob, b-1902 HAUMANN, Andreas, b-1908 Not much to go on. I would appreciate any ideas. Thanks, John (Hans) Haumann

Works fine with Google chrome also, Harold ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Kurst" <pgkurst@gmail.com> To: "Rita Schiwanowitsch" <schiwanore@msn.com> Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:16:53 PM Subject: Re: [DVHH] [BANAT-L] Fw: The link works fine with my Firefox. This is the link to the actual site that lists the names - http://goliotok.uimenaroda.net/ On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Rita Schiwanowitsch <schiwanore@msn.com>wrote: > I guess I am late hearing about Microsoft's problem, because that is what > I am using. When I get home tonight, I will post another way of accessing > the info. > > > > Rita > > > > > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:27:24 -0700 > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Fw: > From: res00fr1@gmail.com > To: schiwanore@msn.com > > > > > Rita, > > Thank you for the link but it seems to be unresponsive. None of the > controls do anything. Is there a secret to getting any info from the sight. > > I am using Microsoft's advice and not using Internet Explorer until their > bug is fixed so I am using the Firefox browser. > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 5:15 AM, Rita Schiwanowitsch <schiwanore@msn.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > > > The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the > Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an exhibition > aimed at exposing Communist crimes. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The link works fine with my Firefox. This is the link to the actual site that lists the names - http://goliotok.uimenaroda.net/ On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Rita Schiwanowitsch <schiwanore@msn.com>wrote: > I guess I am late hearing about Microsoft's problem, because that is what > I am using. When I get home tonight, I will post another way of accessing > the info. > > > > Rita > > > > > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:27:24 -0700 > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Fw: > From: res00fr1@gmail.com > To: schiwanore@msn.com > > > > > Rita, > > Thank you for the link but it seems to be unresponsive. None of the > controls do anything. Is there a secret to getting any info from the sight. > > I am using Microsoft's advice and not using Internet Explorer until their > bug is fixed so I am using the Firefox browser. > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 5:15 AM, Rita Schiwanowitsch <schiwanore@msn.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > > > The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the > Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an exhibition > aimed at exposing Communist crimes. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Has to be me... or my ISP. cannot select anything with any of my browsers... I will have to try another machine. Thanks everyone On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Harold <bhbrat24@q.com> wrote: > Works fine with Google chrome also, Harold > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Kurst" <pgkurst@gmail.com> > To: "Rita Schiwanowitsch" <schiwanore@msn.com> > Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:16:53 PM > Subject: Re: [DVHH] [BANAT-L] Fw: > > The link works fine with my Firefox. This is the link to the actual site > that lists the names - http://goliotok.uimenaroda.net/ > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Rita Schiwanowitsch <schiwanore@msn.com > >wrote: > > > I guess I am late hearing about Microsoft's problem, because that is what > > I am using. When I get home tonight, I will post another way of > accessing > > the info. > > > > > > > > Rita > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:27:24 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Fw: > > From: res00fr1@gmail.com > > To: schiwanore@msn.com > > > > > > > > > > Rita, > > > > Thank you for the link but it seems to be unresponsive. None of the > > controls do anything. Is there a secret to getting any info from the > sight. > > > > I am using Microsoft's advice and not using Internet Explorer until their > > bug is fixed so I am using the Firefox browser. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 5:15 AM, Rita Schiwanowitsch <schiwanore@msn.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > > > > > > The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the > > Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an > exhibition > > aimed at exposing Communist crimes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is such an interesting thread. In our home it was called Kaiser Deutsch. I don't know why. Regards Terry Begin forwarded message: From: "Nick Tullius" <ntullius@rogers.com> Date: April 29, 2014 3:10:04 PM EDT To: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [DVHH] P.S. to Camps &Armies - City German vs Village German There is another plausible explanation for (especially men) speaking "high German" in their villages. It is that they were actually speaking "city German". In 1910 Temeswar the Germans, with 34,644 out of 72,555 inhabitants, were the largest ethnic group. Just like every village had specific dialect, the Germans of cities like Temeswar had their own dialect. They thought of it as the "real German", and it may have been a touch closer to High German, but it was in fact a "Viennese dialect", a form of German resembling that spoken in a Vienna. When the Banat was a Habsburg Kronprovinz, from the date of its liberation from the Ottoman Turks until 1867, Temeswar was its capital. Much of the administrative personnel naturally came to Temeswar from Vienna, and brought with them their "Viennese" dialect. This form of German persisted, with local modifications, even to the present. The villagers called it "herrisch" and the burghers of Temeswar had some sense of pride (maybe even a superiority complex) over the villagers who spoke "schwowisch". Often young men from the villages spent some time, sometimes years, in the city, apprenticing for trades like barbers or similar ones. These boys or young men picked up the German spoken in the city and carried it back with when they returned to their villages. They were comfortable with it and often found it hard to give it up. And sometimes they may even have used it to demonstrate that they had one over their spouses. I am aware of at least one book dealing with the Stadtdialekt von Temeswar (City dialect of T.). Nick Tullius -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rita Schiwanowitsch Sent: 28-Apr-14 21:36 To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] P.S. to Camps &Armies Hello Linda, You post pleased me very much. My mother and oma did schwabel al little bit... but they spoke a relaxed version of "high German".... and from what Mom says, they did so at home also. They knew the dialect in the town... but did not always use it. Also, schwabish varied from town to town.... mostly depending on what regions the original settlers were from. There is a neighboring town to my mothers and, she says, they could barely understand them. Rita Colorado and Jabuka > From: famline@embarqmail.com > To: jfschambre@comcast.net; bbd2424@gmail.com > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:26:09 -0400 > CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] P.S. to Camps &Armies > > I had this situation in my grandparents' home. Grandpa spoke "high German" > even as a DS and grandma....didn't. So even in later years they would > banter about what the correct name of something was. And of course, > grandma who could show her temper, would get on Grandpa for his > 'High-German ways"..... > He was from Kowatschi (Kovasci) and she was born in GrossJetscha, > although grew up in Eichental (Gyulatelep). > Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Schambre" <jfschambre@comcast.net> > To: "Barb D" <bbd2424@gmail.com> > Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:54 PM > Subject: Re: [DVHH] P.S. to Camps &Armies > > >> I am also very interesting in knowing what 'swabish' dialect was >> spoken in Weisenhaid and Blumenthal. My grandfather always said "We >> speak Swabish German so many who speak high german do not understand >> us", and it was true! I had friends who's parents were German and >> spoke high German and when they got together with my grandparents >> they had to speak English! :-) >> >> Good luck. Hope you can find an answer to your question. >> >> John >> >> John F. Schambre >> San Francisco, CA >> >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2014, at 1:46 PM, Barb D <bbd2424@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I forgot to ask this really dumb question ,but how do I know if my >>> families are really donauschwaben and what dialect thy would have spoke. >>> There have been so many dialects refered to and I would like to >>> know if there is a way to tell. >>> Sorry I have so many questions, but I am a very curious person and >>> love quests. >>> Thanks again, >>> Barb D. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Robert and Nick, as far as I know: the family book was delivered to the HOG this week, so the already prepaid books will surely be sent soon. Regards Anni Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. April 2014 um 14:43 Uhr Von: "Nick Tullius" <ntullius@rogers.com> An: "'Robert Evensen'" <revensen@comcast.net>, "'DVHH Mail List'" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.net> Betreff: Re: [DVHH] FB Warjasch Robert, According to the Banater Post of March 15, 2014, the FB Warjasch will go (or went) to the printer in March. The two volumes will cost 70 Euro plus shipping & handling. Nick Tullius -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Robert Evensen Sent: 28-Apr-14 22:35 To: DVHH Mail List Subject: [DVHH] FB Warjasch Does anyone know when the new Familienbuch for Warjasch will be released? Orders are being collected, but I don’t know if it has been printed and copies mailed out. Robert Evensen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is another plausible explanation for (especially men) speaking "high German" in their villages. It is that they were actually speaking "city German". In 1910 Temeswar the Germans, with 34,644 out of 72,555 inhabitants, were the largest ethnic group. Just like every village had specific dialect, the Germans of cities like Temeswar had their own dialect. They thought of it as the "real German", and it may have been a touch closer to High German, but it was in fact a "Viennese dialect", a form of German resembling that spoken in a Vienna. When the Banat was a Habsburg Kronprovinz, from the date of its liberation from the Ottoman Turks until 1867, Temeswar was its capital. Much of the administrative personnel naturally came to Temeswar from Vienna, and brought with them their "Viennese" dialect. This form of German persisted, with local modifications, even to the present. The villagers called it "herrisch" and the burghers of Temeswar had some sense of pride (maybe even a superiority complex) over the villagers who spoke "schwowisch". Often young men from the villages spent some time, sometimes years, in the city, apprenticing for trades like barbers or similar ones. These boys or young men picked up the German spoken in the city and carried it back with when they returned to their villages. They were comfortable with it and often found it hard to give it up. And sometimes they may even have used it to demonstrate that they had one over their spouses. I am aware of at least one book dealing with the Stadtdialekt von Temeswar (City dialect of T.). Nick Tullius -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rita Schiwanowitsch Sent: 28-Apr-14 21:36 To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] P.S. to Camps &Armies Hello Linda, You post pleased me very much. My mother and oma did schwabel al little bit... but they spoke a relaxed version of "high German".... and from what Mom says, they did so at home also. They knew the dialect in the town... but did not always use it. Also, schwabish varied from town to town.... mostly depending on what regions the original settlers were from. There is a neighboring town to my mothers and, she says, they could barely understand them. Rita Colorado and Jabuka > From: famline@embarqmail.com > To: jfschambre@comcast.net; bbd2424@gmail.com > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:26:09 -0400 > CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] P.S. to Camps &Armies > > I had this situation in my grandparents' home. Grandpa spoke "high German" > even as a DS and grandma....didn't. So even in later years they would > banter about what the correct name of something was. And of course, > grandma who could show her temper, would get on Grandpa for his > 'High-German ways"..... > He was from Kowatschi (Kovasci) and she was born in GrossJetscha, > although grew up in Eichental (Gyulatelep). > Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Schambre" <jfschambre@comcast.net> > To: "Barb D" <bbd2424@gmail.com> > Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:54 PM > Subject: Re: [DVHH] P.S. to Camps &Armies > > > >I am also very interesting in knowing what 'swabish' dialect was > >spoken in Weisenhaid and Blumenthal. My grandfather always said "We > >speak Swabish German so many who speak high german do not understand > >us", and it was true! I had friends who's parents were German and > >spoke high German and when they got together with my grandparents > >they had to speak English! :-) > > > > Good luck. Hope you can find an answer to your question. > > > > John > > > > John F. Schambre > > San Francisco, CA > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2014, at 1:46 PM, Barb D <bbd2424@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> I forgot to ask this really dumb question ,but how do I know if my > >> families are really donauschwaben and what dialect thy would have spoke. > >> There have been so many dialects refered to and I would like to > >> know if there is a way to tell. > >> Sorry I have so many questions, but I am a very curious person and > >> love quests. > >> Thanks again, > >> Barb D. > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I just finished reading Nick's stories. Thanks for putting them in English so all of us could enjoy them. They were interesting & fun to read, especially cause I know nothing about how it was there. My grandparents came to the states in 1922 with my mother who was about 2 1/2 yrs old then. So she remembers nothing and I don't remember my gparents talking about very much. Thanks, Barb D. -----Original Message----- From: Rose Vetter Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 1:04 PM To: DVHH Webmaster Cc: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-L Subject: Re: [DVHH] New Publication: My Mother tongue - OUR PEOPLE WRITE SCHWOWISCH - MEMORIES OF MY YOUTH IN THE BANAT Hello Nick, I was catching up on all the Mailing List messages and just read your two delightful articles written in Banater Schwowisch. I love your folksy, down-home description of your childhood experiences in the Banat and can see myself transported to my own childhood in the Batschka, sitting on my grandfather's lap and listening to his stories. After I finished reading your stories, I thought it would be great to have a translation for our non-Schwowisch-speaking friends. But then I scrolled down to the bottom of the page, and there they were - two links to the English translations! http://www.dvhh.org/banat/Exams-Temesvar~NTullius.htm http://www.dvhh.org/banat/Village-Music-Homeland~NTullius.htm Thank you, Nick, for sharing your memories with us! Rose Vetter On 24 April 2014 18:01, DVHH Webmaster <dvhh.community@comcast.net> wrote: > I am pleased to announce a new publication by Nick Tullius. The Banater > Post published two of his short stories written in the schwowisch dialect > about his Banat home village of Schandrhaas. A reminder of days gone by > but > still close at heart. Even if your roots are from a different settlement > region, I recommend reading all the stories published at DVHH. > > > > Article can be found under News & Additions at the Banat homepage: > http://www.dvhh.org/banat/ > > > > "My Mother tongue - OUR PEOPLE WRITE SCHWOWISCH - MEMORIES OF MY YOUTH IN > THE BANAT": Exams in Temeswar & Village Music in the Homeland by Nick > Tullius. > > > > Enjoy, I did. > > Thank you Nick! > > > > Jody McKim Pharr > > Woodstock, GA > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention camp on the Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an exhibition aimed at exposing Communist crimes. http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prisoners-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805

Hello John, Thank you for your email. My father’ grandmother was a Schreiner in Bukin. We completely lost touch with that side of the family since World War II. Schreiner is a very common name. Unless this woman’s ancestors are from Bukin (Batschka) or from Besseringen (Saarland) it would be very hard to trace. Anne Dreer From: John Frey Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:28 AM To: Anne Dreer Subject: Re: [DVHH] Saarland-Lothringen On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 7:22 AM, John Frey <jenfrey@aol.com> wrote: I noticed that you mentioned a Schreiner family in your email. I once knew an Anne Schreiner who lived on the south side of Chicago and went to Nortwestern University. Any relation? John Frey On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Anne Dreer <dreera@sympatico.ca> wrote: I just read an article about one of the towns (Besseringen) in the present day Saarland where the Schreiner side of my family came from in the early 1700’s. It has the history from the earliest settlements in the area. It is under : DIE GESCHICHTE DES ORTES BESSERINGEN It is near the border of present day France, Luxemburg and the Saarland ( Germany). There was a continuous struggle between different countries and nobles. It was invaded, destroyed, suffered floods and wars and diseases. The borders were moved, reversed, split and shifted. Those suffering the most were the peasants. No wonder our ancestors left to escape such unsettling conditions. Anne D. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message