Dear list members, I thought I fixed the problem of our list members being deleted by changing our password, but as of 8:39 am EST today 3 more were removed that did not submit the unsubscribe themselves. Please know I am working to fix this and let me know if it happens to you. Eve -- DVHH mail list co-administrator Eve Brown

Very, very well written Karen!! My DNA and ancestry search supports what you so eloquently state. Thank you. Joe Kurzweil -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of islandkaren Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 2:10 AM To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.net Subject: [DVHH] German-Hungarians To anyone on this subject line discussing the "ethnic German" issue...I just want to say, my particular responses were prompted by two posts in particular in which folks were "surprised" at their DNA results as they thought they were only "German"...ethnic or otherwise. Initially I was trying to point out that "German" is a Nationality or a Citizenship, not a Race. Also, that Donauschwaben is a descriptive term about a very specific emigrating group of people whose same experience on the Danube is now used to classify them. And now, even some others who did not necessarily have the same transportation experience, but became a part of the end result in what history calls the Banat, in some cases are also "German", but may also be from other areas of Europe than just the geographic area known as Swabia. As a result, many of us whose ancestors lived and worked and thrived in the Hungarian Hapsburg Empire for centuries after migrating from lots of places in western Europe, became "Donauschwaben". To discover through DNA analysis or historical searching or genealogy that one's family group are not all "German", either as ethnic practice or common language, should not be a surprise. Of course people who were not German came to the Banat down the Danube. Of course groups of people who may have lived in the area generally described as the Duchy of Swabia were not all from there "forever" and had most certainly arrived there from every other direction and spoke a variety of languages and dialects. Of course there is and always was intermarriage of tribes, and geographic groups, and races, and mixing of languages. "Dialects" in fact are generally considered to occur as the result of the combining of languages in a single geographic area over a time period longer than 2 generations. Actually all one has to do is read this list...there is huge discussion describing how one "German" group can't understand the other, and who spoke High German, who spoke Austrian Schwobish,! and my father spoke German but my mother's native tongue was French.......and on and on. Someone on this thread said that if your native tongue was not German and you were not from the area of Germany now known as Baden-Wurttemberg, you were Not Donauschwaben. I suppose exclusion as a means to describe and then sequester a group of people may seem appropriate from a purist sense, but it is not accurate or helpful in current context. Both my father's maternal and paternal families going back many centuries emigrated to the geographic areas that are included in Donauschwaban territories. Did they all come down the Danube from the Schwarzwald speaking some dialect of German from about 1722 in three waves of specific groups...nope. Did they all speak German and cook only certain foods in a certain way on specific holidays...nope. Did they all remain pure and "German" and never intermarry or integrate other ethnicities...nope. Are they "Donauschwaben"....Yes they are! They shared, as well as most certainly participated in the culture, politics, geography and history of the unique experience in modern history now known as Donauschwaben. I believe the disconnect between us talking about this probably also occurs because you guys seem to be describing perhaps just the most recent 75 years of historical context. My viewpoint includes a much longer context, that is, from the first waves of settlers and actually even farther back for my father's side. Both are of course relevant. And as I just described previously, both appropriately are blended, mixed, included and valued in this Donauschwaben experience, because that is in fact the reality and history of these families....just read this list. Karen. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Karen!You just saved all people from Duchy of Lorraine to be german ???? Daniel, Bordeaux > From: islandkaren@bellsouth.net > To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.net > Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 02:09:48 -0400 > Subject: [DVHH] German-Hungarians > > To anyone on this subject line discussing the "ethnic German" issue...I just want to say, my particular responses were prompted by two posts in particular in which folks were "surprised" at their DNA results as they thought they were only "German"...ethnic or otherwise. > > Initially I was trying to point out that "German" is a Nationality or a Citizenship, not a Race. Also, that Donauschwaben is a descriptive term about a very specific emigrating group of people whose same experience on the Danube is now used to classify them. And now, even some others who did not necessarily have the same transportation experience, but became a part of the end result in what history calls the Banat, in some cases are also "German", but may also be from other areas of Europe than just the geographic area known as Swabia. As a result, many of us whose ancestors lived and worked and thrived in the Hungarian Hapsburg Empire for centuries after migrating from lots of places in western Europe, became "Donauschwaben". > > To discover through DNA analysis or historical searching or genealogy that one's family group are not all "German", either as ethnic practice or common language, should not be a surprise. Of course people who were not German came to the Banat down the Danube. Of course groups of people who may have lived in the area generally described as the Duchy of Swabia were not all from there "forever" and had most certainly arrived there from every other direction and spoke a variety of languages and dialects. Of course there is and always was intermarriage of tribes, and geographic groups, and races, and mixing of languages. "Dialects" in fact are generally considered to occur as the result of the combining of languages in a single geographic area over a time period longer than 2 generations. Actually all one has to do is read this list...there is huge discussion describing how one "German" group can't understand the other, and who spoke High German, who spoke Austrian Schwobish,! > and my father spoke German but my mother's native tongue was French.......and on and on. > > Someone on this thread said that if your native tongue was not German and you were not from the area of Germany now known as Baden-Wurttemberg, you were Not Donauschwaben. I suppose exclusion as a means to describe and then sequester a group of people may seem appropriate from a purist sense, but it is not accurate or helpful in current context. Both my father's maternal and paternal families going back many centuries emigrated to the geographic areas that are included in Donauschwaban territories. Did they all come down the Danube from the Schwarzwald speaking some dialect of German from about 1722 in three waves of specific groups...nope. > Did they all speak German and cook only certain foods in a certain way on specific holidays...nope. Did they all remain pure and "German" and never intermarry or integrate other ethnicities...nope. > Are they "Donauschwaben"....Yes they are! They shared, as well as most certainly participated in the culture, politics, geography and history of the unique experience in modern history now known as Donauschwaben. > > I believe the disconnect between us talking about this probably also occurs because you guys seem to be describing perhaps just the most recent 75 years of historical context. My viewpoint includes a much longer context, that is, from the first waves of settlers and actually even farther back for my father's side. Both are of course relevant. And as I just described previously, both appropriately are blended, mixed, included and valued in this Donauschwaben experience, because that is in fact the reality and history of these families....just read this list. > > Karen. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Karen-Lister I suppose every one can understand what you are writing in your article Karen. Lets start from the beginning and go back 10,000 years ago because that is the time northern European history began right after the ice age. Every one in the north came from the south, from variety of different cultures. Therefore our ancestors included a variety of different cultures reflected in our DNA. Fast forward to the Roman Empire. There were two Roman provinces Germania Inferior (from where the Franken nation originated) and Germania Superior (from where the Alemannic nation originated) with Trier the center. Both provinces had several cultures intermixed, such as Germanic, Celtic and the Romans with a multitude of cultures themselves. When Germania Superior becomes Alemannia (about 200AD) after several Germanic nations joined from the interior of the Germanic land, one of them were the Suebi so called by the Romans. (From Suebi or Schweben as the Germans called them we get the name Schwaben approx. in the year 1,000 taking place of Alamania). Then came the Huns (about 400AD) and defeated the Germanic Burgundy near Trier (after their defeat they moved to settle in what is today's Burgundy and established their kingdom there). I reality if we go through our history of recent 2,000 years it becomes even more evident as we can see and appreciate. Now to the German speaking Donauschwaben. Most of them originate from the west  of the Rheine River parts of the former Franken and Alamania.  Donauschwaben are considered those 100,000 Germans settlers who settled in Hungary after the Turkish war during the three Great Schwabian Migrations. However, many do include other German settlers during other time periods.  I am not to argue if that is right or wrong to do. We can say though we are not a race, whoever it does not mean that we do not belong to a German speaking nationality group and were considered by Germany when our name was coined, as the Youngest Germanic Folksgroup.   Gruss Hans On Saturday, May 3, 2014 2:32 AM, Daniel HILAIRE <danielhilaire@hotmail.com> wrote: Thank you Karen!You just saved all people from Duchy of Lorraine to be german ???? Daniel, Bordeaux > From: islandkaren@bellsouth.net > To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.net > Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 02:09:48 -0400 > Subject: [DVHH] German-Hungarians > > To anyone on this subject line discussing the "ethnic German" issue...I just want to say, my particular responses were prompted by two posts in particular in which folks were "surprised" at their DNA results as they thought they were only "German"...ethnic or otherwise. > > Initially I was trying to point out that "German" is a Nationality or a Citizenship, not a Race.  Also, that Donauschwaben is a descriptive term about a very specific emigrating group of people whose same experience on the Danube is now used to classify them. And now, even some others who did not necessarily have the same transportation experience, but became a part of the end result in what history calls the Banat, in some cases are also "German", but may also be from other areas of Europe than just the geographic area known as Swabia.  As a result, many of us whose ancestors lived and worked and thrived in the Hungarian Hapsburg Empire for centuries after migrating from lots of places in western Europe, became "Donauschwaben".  > > To discover through DNA analysis or historical searching or genealogy that one's family group are not all "German", either as ethnic practice or common language, should not be a surprise.  Of course people who were not German came to the Banat down the Danube.  Of course groups of people who may have lived in the area generally described as the Duchy of Swabia were not all from there "forever" and had most certainly arrived there from every other direction and spoke a variety of languages and dialects.  Of course there is and always was intermarriage of tribes, and geographic groups, and races, and mixing of languages.  "Dialects" in fact are generally considered to occur as the result of the combining of languages in a single geographic area over a time period longer than 2 generations. Actually all one has to do is read this list...there is huge discussion describing how one "German" group can't understand the other, and who spoke High German, who spoke Austrian Schwobish,! >  and my father spoke German but my mother's native tongue was French.......and on and on. > > Someone on this thread said that if your native tongue was not German and you were not from the area of Germany now known as Baden-Wurttemberg, you were Not Donauschwaben.  I suppose exclusion as a means to describe and then sequester a group of people may seem appropriate from a purist sense, but it is not accurate or helpful in current context.  Both my father's maternal and paternal families going back many centuries emigrated to the geographic areas that are included in Donauschwaban territories.  Did they all come down the Danube from the Schwarzwald speaking some dialect of German from about 1722 in three waves of specific groups...nope.  > Did they all speak German and cook only certain foods in a certain way on specific holidays...nope.  Did they all remain pure and "German" and never intermarry or integrate other ethnicities...nope. > Are they "Donauschwaben"....Yes they are!  They shared, as well as most certainly participated in the culture, politics, geography and history of the unique experience in modern history now known as Donauschwaben. > > I believe the disconnect between us talking about this probably also occurs because you guys seem to be describing perhaps just the most recent 75 years of historical context.  My viewpoint includes a much longer context, that is, from the first waves of settlers and actually even farther back for my father's side.  Both are of course relevant.  And as I just described previously, both appropriately are blended, mixed, included and valued in this Donauschwaben experience, because that is in fact the reality and history of these families....just read this list. > > Karen. > >  >      > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message                         ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To anyone on this subject line discussing the "ethnic German" issue...I just want to say, my particular responses were prompted by two posts in particular in which folks were "surprised" at their DNA results as they thought they were only "German"...ethnic or otherwise. Initially I was trying to point out that "German" is a Nationality or a Citizenship, not a Race. Also, that Donauschwaben is a descriptive term about a very specific emigrating group of people whose same experience on the Danube is now used to classify them. And now, even some others who did not necessarily have the same transportation experience, but became a part of the end result in what history calls the Banat, in some cases are also "German", but may also be from other areas of Europe than just the geographic area known as Swabia. As a result, many of us whose ancestors lived and worked and thrived in the Hungarian Hapsburg Empire for centuries after migrating from lots of places in western Europe, became "Donauschwaben". To discover through DNA analysis or historical searching or genealogy that one's family group are not all "German", either as ethnic practice or common language, should not be a surprise. Of course people who were not German came to the Banat down the Danube. Of course groups of people who may have lived in the area generally described as the Duchy of Swabia were not all from there "forever" and had most certainly arrived there from every other direction and spoke a variety of languages and dialects. Of course there is and always was intermarriage of tribes, and geographic groups, and races, and mixing of languages. "Dialects" in fact are generally considered to occur as the result of the combining of languages in a single geographic area over a time period longer than 2 generations. Actually all one has to do is read this list...there is huge discussion describing how one "German" group can't understand the other, and who spoke High German, who spoke Austrian Schwobish, and my father spoke German but my mother's native tongue was French.......and on and on. Someone on this thread said that if your native tongue was not German and you were not from the area of Germany now known as Baden-Wurttemberg, you were Not Donauschwaben. I suppose exclusion as a means to describe and then sequester a group of people may seem appropriate from a purist sense, but it is not accurate or helpful in current context. Both my father's maternal and paternal families going back many centuries emigrated to the geographic areas that are included in Donauschwaban territories. Did they all come down the Danube from the Schwarzwald speaking some dialect of German from about 1722 in three waves of specific groups...nope. Did they all speak German and cook only certain foods in a certain way on specific holidays...nope. Did they all remain pure and "German" and never intermarry or integrate other ethnicities...nope. Are they "Donauschwaben"....Yes they are! They shared, as well as most certainly participated in the culture, politics, geography and history of the unique experience in modern history now known as Donauschwaben. I believe the disconnect between us talking about this probably also occurs because you guys seem to be describing perhaps just the most recent 75 years of historical context. My viewpoint includes a much longer context, that is, from the first waves of settlers and actually even farther back for my father's side. Both are of course relevant. And as I just described previously, both appropriately are blended, mixed, included and valued in this Donauschwaben experience, because that is in fact the reality and history of these families....just read this list. Karen.

I 100% agree with Nick. It is true. All ethnic Germans, all Donauschwaben, went through this. They were afraid. Very afraid. That was the atmosphere. The Germans were even condemned in the United States. They were looked at as Nazis. These are the negative consequences, unfortunately, after the war. They were afraid to say what they were. The only winner out of the second world war, the only big winner, was Stalin! He got EVERYTHING he wanted. Roosevelt and Churchill sold Eastern Europe, the Donauschwaben, out to the Russians. And the Yalta-Potsdam agreement confirms what I am saying. -----Original Message----- From: Nick Tullius <ntullius@rogers.com> < There is another reason for ethnic Germans in the USA and Canada after WWI and after WWII to declare themselves to be anything other than German. It is that Germans were often hated and sometimes persecuted for being the enemy. Many friends, neighbours, and coworkers may have had their men over in Europe, fighting the Germans. Some of these men may have been killed over there. In addition, the war propaganda did its best to stir up the hatred not only of Germany, but of anything in any way German. There were closings of German newspapers, clubs, schools (or German classes); the city of Berlin in Ontario was renamed Kitchener. To avoid any undue consequences of being seen as the enemy, many ethnic Germans declared themselves to be Austrians, Hungarians, Romanians, or citizens of the other successor states. The numbers are reflected in the appropriate census data. These reactions are understandable: It is normal that nobody wants to be shunned, disadvantaged, or even persecuted for being "the enemy". > Nick Tullius

I will look in my book for your names and let you know what I find. This book is more of a history of Werbass as opposed to a family book, but let’s see what I can find. Dan Walter From: Tina Michel [mailto:tranpro@primus.ca] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 1:11 AM To: Andrea & Dan Walter Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Alt-Werbass Family Book Hi Dan, I think if this is a complete history book of Werbass, it should at least give the names of the people that lived there during the said period. I'm looking for a certain MICHEL, Philipp born in 1763 (probably not there), married to Christina Schweich, and having 3 to 4 sons. How can I can a copy of this book, or at least a copy of the pages that would be of interest to me? Thank you for your response. Tina Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrea <mailto:ajwdcw@windstream.net> & Dan Walter To: 'Tina Michel' <mailto:tranpro@primus.ca> Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 8:30 PM Subject: Alt-Werbass Family Book I have just one book that I got from my father titled “Werbass 1785 – 1975”, but nothing on Alt-Werbass. If anyone knows of a family book like this, please let us know. I have heritage from Neu-Werbass and Alt-Werbass. Dan Walter From: Tina Michel [mailto:tranpro@primus.ca] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 11:51 AM To: John Haumann; Andrea & Dan Walter Cc: 'dvhh' Subject: Re: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares Hi John and Dan, Any body of you - or some else - happen to know anything about the family book of Werbass, more precisely Alt-Werbass? I'm actually looking to see if any document exists on the list of the inhabitants of this town/village in the late 1700's. My ancestor was supposed to have lived there sometime before 1819 and then he moved to another village. Thank you so much. Tina Michel, Montreal, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haumann" < <mailto:haumann@earthlink.net> haumann@earthlink.net> To: "Andrea & Dan Walter" < <mailto:ajwdcw@windstream.net> ajwdcw@windstream.net> Cc: "'dvhh'" < <mailto:donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares Hello Dan, Thanks for the reply. Do you have any knowledge of an Ares HAUMANN among the descendants? Werbaß is actually just about 40 kM north (and a little east) of Palanka where my father and his six brothers and sisters were born. I am reasonably certain that they remained in Neu Palanka at least through about 1929 or 1930, but most likely remained there until the incursion of Tito's Partisans in the fall of 1944. Aside from my father, I have personal knowledge of the whereabouts of only one of his siblings (a sister and her subsequent family). Incidentally, I have been able (with considerable help from the DVHH community) to trace my HAUMANN line back to Konrad HAUMANN and Elisabeth MANTZ of Filipowa in the late 1700s. John (Hans) Haumann On Apr 30, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Andrea & Dan Walter wrote: > I have a number of Haumann's in my line, but they originate from the > Batschka region, around Werbass. > Dan Walter > > -----Original Message----- > From: <mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Haumann > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:25 AM > To: dvhh > Subject: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares > > > I am trying to determine whether HAUMANN, Ares might have been a relative on > my father's side. I have only the sketchiest of information, but I can > share what little I know. > > Ares HAUMANN died sometime in 1999, possibly in Britain, or maybe Spain or > Argentina. That's it. > > If we are related, it would likely be as first cousins (possibly a son of > one of my father's brothers). My father is HAUMANN, Stefan, b-1904 > (Palanka), d-1981 (Cleveland) > > The brothers... > HAUMANN, Johann, b-1894 > HAUMANN, Martin, b-1896 > HAUMANN, Jakob, b-1902 > HAUMANN, Andreas, b-1908 > > Not much to go on. I would appreciate any ideas. > > Thanks, > > John (Hans) Haumann > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- Aucun virus trouvé dans ce message. Analyse effectuée par AVG - <http://www.avg.fr> www.avg.fr Version: 2013.0.3469 / Base de données virale: 3722/7423 - Date: 01/05/2014 Aucun virus trouvé dans ce message. Analyse effectuée par AVG - www.avg.fr Version: 2013.0.3469 / Base de données virale: 3722/7426 - Date: 01/05/2014

I will look for these names and get back with you. Also, I've just purchased two Werbass family books and one CD from the Reformed and Evangelical churches. When they get here, I will search those as well. Dan Walter -----Original Message----- From: Fred Minty [mailto:fminty@telus.net] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 1:38 PM To: 'Andrea & Dan Walter' Subject: Seeking information on THOMAS family, NeuWerbass Dan: I have been researching the family of my wife's father, William Thomas, whose father was Georg(e) Thomas born May 19, 1876 in NeuWerbass. He had 3 brothers and 2 sisters born to Georg Thomas, reformed church, laborer and farmhand in NeuWerbass, born August 18, 1839. The second Georg(e) (b:1876) married Agnetha Zey, January 10, 1903. He emigrated to the US in 1905 and she followed in 1906. Agnetha was born in Urwegen, Romania in about 1876. Her parents were Samuel Zey, born 1845, and Katharina Kentach, born 1848 and married in 1869. The older Georg (b: 1839) was married to Elizabetha Becker. Any history on these Thomases of NeuWerbass would be greatly appreciated. -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Andrea & Dan Walter Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 5:31 PM To: 'Tina Michel' Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: [DVHH] Alt-Werbass Family Book I have just one book that I got from my father titled “Werbass 1785 – 1975”, but nothing on Alt-Werbass. If anyone knows of a family book like this, please let us know. I have heritage from Neu-Werbass and Alt-Werbass. Dan Walter From: Tina Michel [mailto:tranpro@primus.ca] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 11:51 AM To: John Haumann; Andrea & Dan Walter Cc: 'dvhh' Subject: Re: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares Hi John and Dan, Any body of you - or some else - happen to know anything about the family book of Werbass, more precisely Alt-Werbass? I'm actually looking to see if any document exists on the list of the inhabitants of this town/village in the late 1700's. My ancestor was supposed to have lived there sometime before 1819 and then he moved to another village. Thank you so much. Tina Michel, Montreal, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haumann" < <mailto:haumann@earthlink.net> haumann@earthlink.net> To: "Andrea & Dan Walter" < <mailto:ajwdcw@windstream.net> ajwdcw@windstream.net> Cc: "'dvhh'" < <mailto:donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares Hello Dan, Thanks for the reply. Do you have any knowledge of an Ares HAUMANN among the descendants? Werbaß is actually just about 40 kM north (and a little east) of Palanka where my father and his six brothers and sisters were born. I am reasonably certain that they remained in Neu Palanka at least through about 1929 or 1930, but most likely remained there until the incursion of Tito's Partisans in the fall of 1944. Aside from my father, I have personal knowledge of the whereabouts of only one of his siblings (a sister and her subsequent family). Incidentally, I have been able (with considerable help from the DVHH community) to trace my HAUMANN line back to Konrad HAUMANN and Elisabeth MANTZ of Filipowa in the late 1700s. John (Hans) Haumann On Apr 30, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Andrea & Dan Walter wrote: > I have a number of Haumann's in my line, but they originate from the > Batschka region, around Werbass. > Dan Walter > > -----Original Message----- > From: <mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com> donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Haumann > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:25 AM > To: dvhh > Subject: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares > > > I am trying to determine whether HAUMANN, Ares might have been a > relative on > my father's side. I have only the sketchiest of information, but I > can share what little I know. > > Ares HAUMANN died sometime in 1999, possibly in Britain, or maybe > Spain or Argentina. That's it. > > If we are related, it would likely be as first cousins (possibly a son > of one of my father's brothers). My father is HAUMANN, Stefan, b-1904 > (Palanka), d-1981 (Cleveland) > > The brothers... > HAUMANN, Johann, b-1894 > HAUMANN, Martin, b-1896 > HAUMANN, Jakob, b-1902 > HAUMANN, Andreas, b-1908 > > Not much to go on. I would appreciate any ideas. > > Thanks, > > John (Hans) Haumann > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to <mailto:DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- Aucun virus trouvé dans ce message. Analyse effectuée par AVG - <http://www.avg.fr> www.avg.fr Version: 2013.0.3469 / Base de données virale: 3722/7423 - Date: 01/05/2014 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm starting to think that outlook may be playing a part in some of our problems with the list Eve On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Beth Tolfree <cbtol43@bak.rr.com> wrote: > My post appeared in the Rootsweb archive, but I've yet to receive it in my > Outlook Express. > I've noticed that other people's posts are coming to me very slowly - - if > they come. > > Beth Tolfree > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barb D > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 1:57 PM > To: DVHH-L Administrator; DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] test > > I was just thinking the same thing I am missing all the chatter! > Hope everyone didn't burn themselves out. LOL Barb D > > -----Original Message----- > From: DVHH-L Administrator > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:12 PM > To: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DVHH] test > > Since our little problem, things are too quiet - just checking > > Eve > > -- > DVHH mail list co-administrator > > Eve Brown > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Syrmia Regional Coordinator http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia

Nick, This is absolutely correct. The case of my dad gave me the answer. He never said anything about being ethnic German or even never used to speak out loud about the Donauschwaben to anybody not interested, especially in France where we lived. He would always refer to being Yugoslav, as Syrmia, where he was born, became finally part of this country after WWII. Cheers! Tina Michel, Montreal, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Tullius" <ntullius@rogers.com> To: "'DVHH'" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] FW: German Hungarians > There is another reason for ethnic Germans in the USA and Canada after WWI > and after WWII to declare themselves to be anything other than German. It > is > that Germans were often hated and sometimes persecuted for being the > enemy. > Many friends, neighbours, and coworkers may have had their men over in > Europe, fighting the Germans. Some of these men may have been killed over > there. In addition, the war propaganda did its best to stir up the hatred > not only of Germany, but of anything in any way German. > There were closings of German newspapers, clubs, schools (or German > classes); the city of Berlin in Ontario was renamed Kitchener. To avoid > any > undue consequences of being seen as the enemy, many ethnic Germans > declared > themselves to be Austrians, Hungarians, Romanians, or citizens of the > other > successor states. The numbers are reflected in the appropriate census > data. > These reactions are understandable: It is normal that nobody wants > to be shunned, disadvantaged, or even persecuted for being "the enemy". > > Nick Tullius > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rezso > Altnetter > Sent: 2-May-14 03:08 > To: DVHH > Subject: Re: [DVHH] FW: German Hungarians > > > > > Hi Dan, > > I think I can answer your question. > Basically the Austrian-Hungarian Empire had (as the name say) Austria and > Hungary as the rulers and the other regions like Bohemia (now Czech Rep) > or > Transylvania (now Romania) for example were under either Austria or > Hungary. > The Batschka was part of the Hungarian portion so they were after all > Hungarian citizens. > > If you check this map it's easier to understand: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dissolution_of_Austria-Hungary.png > There you have what was under Austria and Hungary and then the division of > the territories after the WWI when the all Empire colapsed. > > My ancestors were also German-Hungarians from Vezsprem (now Hungary). > And in few documents they declared themselves Hungarians and in others > Austrians, but the same as your ancestors, they kept their German culture. > > I hope it helps :) > > Regards, > Roger Altnetter > > From: ajwdcw@windstream.net >> To: Donauschwaben-Villages@rootsweb.com >> Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 20:40:15 -0400 >> Subject: [DVHH] FW: German Hungarians >> >> So, I have a question. I have ancestry that came to the USA before and >> after WWI and they declared themselves to be Hungarian, even though >> they were of German heritage. Before the war their town, in the >> Batschka, was part of the Austria-Hungarian Empire. After the war they >> were part of Yugoslavia. So why did they see themselves as being >> Hungarian, as opposed to Austro-Hungarian and Yugoslavian? >> Dan Walter >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >> Steve Berwanger >> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:27 PM >> To: <mjm1021@comcast.net> >> Cc: donauschwaben-villages; Barbara >> Subject: Re: [DVHH] German Hungarians >> >> Thanks........ >> This pretty much describes my memories of our family too! >> >> Steve Berwanger >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On May 1, 2014, at 11:41 AM, <mjm1021@comcast.net> wrote: >> > >> > I never had a problem with my parents' describing themselves as >> German-Hungarians once I went back and studied their history. They >> were Germans who resettled in Hungary but kept their German culture >> mixed with some Hungarian culture. When they came to America they >> shortened it to German Americans. Their culture was still German mixed > with some Hungarian. >> Their descendents became Americans. >> > >> > Fran Matkovich >> > >> > Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Tony Fieder >> > To: Eve, Barbara Hilderson >> > Cc: donauschwaben-villages >> > Sent: April 30, 2014 at 5:08 PM >> > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named >> > >> > Is there similar information anywhere for Batschka prisoners??? >> > Didn't find my dad's name (Peter) on the site provide below? >> > >> > Anton Fieder >> > >> > >> >> From: evebrown@gmail.com >> >> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:00:40 -0400 >> >> To: bhilderson@msn.com >> >> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >> >> Subject: [DVHH] Replying to posts >> >>> This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard >> >>> to if >> >> they at least leave the last post. >> >>> Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line >> >>> for the >> >> one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have >> >> the subject lines edited. >> >>> Eve >> >>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson >> <bhilderson@msn.com>wrote: >> >>>> To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please >> >>>> don't >> take >> >>> offense; but it was very difficult to >> >>> read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you >> delete >> >>> all other messages before replying >> >>> it would make your reply easier to read. Barb >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> detention camp on the >> >>>>>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of >> >>>>>> an >> >>>>> exhibition >> >>>>>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. >> >>>>>>> http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-pris >> >>>>>>> on >> >>>>>>> ers-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Da >> >>>>>>> il >> >>>>>>> y+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_me >> >>>>>>> y+di >> >>>>>>> um=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 >> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >> >>> to Karen, >> >>>>> Thank you for the explanation as to >> >>> "Our Beginnings" >> >>> We should be grateful for those who went before us...... >> >>> And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Diane: >> >>>>> With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a >> >>>>> guess that >> >>> your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent >> >>> formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual >> >>> Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the >> >>> power, >> but not the "barbarian' >> >>> Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of >> >>> course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political >> >>> and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from >> >>> which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in >> >>> Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. >> >>>>> I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going >> >>>>> with Nick >> >>> Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess >> >>> real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on >> >>> this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines >> >>> your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic >> >>> makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your >> >>> story and many others described on this list as well as my own, >> >>> informs this discussion totally. After your description of your >> >>> conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am >> >>> wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring >> >>> satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the >> >>> safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime >> >>> there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". >> >>>>> It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a >> >>>>> real time >> >>> probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or >> >>> more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from >> >>> all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking >> >>> a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, >> >>> liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of >> >>> the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. >> >>> When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" >> >>> hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" >> >>> was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety >> >>> of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, >> >>> education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one >> >>> Village group could not understand the language of the Village >> >>> folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. >> >>>>> None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then >> >>>>> "thought or >> >>> identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole >> >>> story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the >> >>> appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" >> >>> does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and >> >>> exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and >> >>> tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" >> >>> identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better >> >>> psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual >> >>> collectively and magnificent individually. >> >>>>> There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! >> >>>>> And she was >> >>> born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, >> >>> Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then >> >>> added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European >> >>> ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 >> >>> different religious affiliations during her lifetime. >> >>> Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but >> >>> I call it Fabulous!! >> >>>>> Karen. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- >> >>> From: MFCobb1@aol.com >> >>> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com >> >>> To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; >> >>> dvhalas@comcast.net; jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com >> >>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 >> >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results >> >>>>> Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, >> >>>>> thank you for >> >>> the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a >> >>> formal and >> >>> elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you > both >> >>> for >> >>> you time and effort. >> >>>>> Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb >> >>> (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio >> >>> (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, >> >>> Austria-Hungary) >> >>> Newberg Oregon >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This discussion seems to never die. I >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put togeher a few points about the >> >>> nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the >> >>> issue. The long-time followers of this List may want to skip them >> >>>>>>>>> 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of >> >>>>>>>>> people >> sharing >> >>> common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; >> >>> or they can form a national minority. >> >>>>> 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the >> governments of >> >>> the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were >> >>> multinational because of the presence of national minorities). >> >>>>> 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in >> >>>>> the >> >>> territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of >> >>> nationality by the country of birth would have been impossible. >> >>> Attempts to change their nationality by force were never >> >>> completely successful. >> >>>>> 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and >> >>> citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by >> >>> birth or by naturalization. >> >>>>> 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in >> the >> >>> ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily >> >>> citizenship). >> >>>>> 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned >> >>>>> a >> >>> nationality, which can make them members of a >> >>> officially-recognized national minority. >> >>>>>>>>> That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a >> >>>>>>>>> well-established >> >>> historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, >> >>> history, language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language >> >>> literature, in the arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was >> >>> finally demonstrated by their recent (by historical time) >> >>> immigration to and integration in the country of their ancestors. >> >>> The latter are the vast majority; we in the New World (North >> >>> America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we are >> >>> free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our >> >>> ancestors made their own decisions. May they rest in peace! >> >>>>>>>>> Nick Tullius >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' >> >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >>>>>>> -- >> >> Syrmia Regional Coordinator >> >> http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia >> >>>> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> >> message >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> > message >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> > message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ----- > Aucun virus trouve dans ce message. > Analyse effectuee par AVG - www.avg.fr > Version: 2013.0.3469 / Base de donnees virale: 3722/7431 - Date: > 02/05/2014 >

Is there a book for GRABT? I am looking for the following names their KORI, KOHRI, KORY, KHORI KATZLER< JOSEPHA NEIDENBACH PUFFERT Thank you in advance to anyone who may be able to look up the above names -- Sandra

Since our little problem, things are too quiet - just checking Eve -- DVHH mail list co-administrator Eve Brown

I was just thinking the same thing I am missing all the chatter! Hope everyone didn't burn themselves out. LOL Barb D -----Original Message----- From: DVHH-L Administrator Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:12 PM To: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com Subject: [DVHH] test Since our little problem, things are too quiet - just checking Eve -- DVHH mail list co-administrator Eve Brown ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My post appeared in the Rootsweb archive, but I've yet to receive it in my Outlook Express. I've noticed that other people's posts are coming to me very slowly - - if they come. Beth Tolfree -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barb D Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 1:57 PM To: DVHH-L Administrator; DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] test I was just thinking the same thing I am missing all the chatter! Hope everyone didn't burn themselves out. LOL Barb D -----Original Message----- From: DVHH-L Administrator Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:12 PM To: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com Subject: [DVHH] test Since our little problem, things are too quiet - just checking Eve -- DVHH mail list co-administrator Eve Brown ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am so sorry to all those list members who were unsubscribed without request. Do not feel alone as this happened to close to 200 of you. Most were Hotmail and Yahoo accts, but also saw, Rogers, Comcast and others. I have gone in and manually resubbed everyone that I saw was kicked out and our members are back up to 683. I've also changed our password for the interface where Roy and I manage the mail list. I hope this will take care of this. Please don't hesitate to let me know if there is still a problem. One problem may be for those that were subscribed in digest mode - I have no way of knowing this from the multiple unsubs that were in my mail box. If at all possible, please go back in and unsub and then resub as a digest member. Again, my apologies and please don't think you did something wrong on the list and were removed. This is the work of someone being malicious outside of our list that has too much time on their hands. -- DVHH mail list co-administrator Eve Brown

Hi Dan, I think I can answer your question. Basically the Austrian-Hungarian Empire had (as the name say) Austria and Hungary as the rulers and the other regions like Bohemia (now Czech Rep) or Transylvania (now Romania) for example were under either Austria or Hungary. The Batschka was part of the Hungarian portion so they were after all Hungarian citizens. If you check this map it's easier to understand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dissolution_of_Austria-Hungary.png There you have what was under Austria and Hungary and then the division of the territories after the WWI when the all Empire colapsed. My ancestors were also German-Hungarians from Vezsprem (now Hungary). And in few documents they declared themselves Hungarians and in others Austrians, but the same as your ancestors, they kept their German culture. I hope it helps :) Regards, Roger Altnetter > From: ajwdcw@windstream.net > To: Donauschwaben-Villages@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 20:40:15 -0400 > Subject: [DVHH] FW: German Hungarians > > So, I have a question. I have ancestry that came to the USA before and after > WWI and they declared themselves to be Hungarian, even though they were of > German heritage. Before the war their town, in the Batschka, was part of the > Austria-Hungarian Empire. After the war they were part of Yugoslavia. So why > did they see themselves as being Hungarian, as opposed to Austro-Hungarian > and Yugoslavian? > Dan Walter > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Berwanger > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:27 PM > To: <mjm1021@comcast.net> > Cc: donauschwaben-villages; Barbara > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German Hungarians > > Thanks........ > This pretty much describes my memories of our family too! > > Steve Berwanger > Sent from my iPad > > > On May 1, 2014, at 11:41 AM, <mjm1021@comcast.net> wrote: > > > > I never had a problem with my parents' describing themselves as > German-Hungarians once I went back and studied their history. They were > Germans who resettled in Hungary but kept their German culture mixed with > some Hungarian culture. When they came to America they shortened it to > German Americans. Their culture was still German mixed with some Hungarian. > Their descendents became Americans. > > > > Fran Matkovich > > > > Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tony Fieder > > To: Eve, Barbara Hilderson > > Cc: donauschwaben-villages > > Sent: April 30, 2014 at 5:08 PM > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > > > > Is there similar information anywhere for Batschka prisoners??? > > Didn't find my dad's name (Peter) on the site provide below? > > > > Anton Fieder > > > > > >> From: evebrown@gmail.com > >> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:00:40 -0400 > >> To: bhilderson@msn.com > >> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: [DVHH] Replying to posts > >>> This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard to > >>> if > >> they at least leave the last post. > >>> Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line > >>> for the > >> one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have > >> the subject lines edited. > >>> Eve > >>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson > <bhilderson@msn.com>wrote: > >>>> To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please don't > take > >>> offense; but it was very difficult to > >>> read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you > delete > >>> all other messages before replying > >>> it would make your reply easier to read. Barb > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious detention > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camp on the > >>>>>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of an > >>>>> exhibition > >>>>>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. > >>>>>>> http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-prison > >>>>>>> ers-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Dail > >>>>>>> y+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medi > >>>>>>> um=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 > >>>>>>>>>>>> . > >>> to Karen, > >>>>> Thank you for the explanation as to > >>> "Our Beginnings" > >>> We should be grateful for those who went before us...... > >>> And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Diane: > >>>>> With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a > >>>>> guess that > >>> your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent formed > >>> during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual > >>> Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the power, > but not the "barbarian' > >>> Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of > >>> course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political and > >>> historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from which > >>> to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in Eastern > >>> Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. > >>>>> I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going with > >>>>> Nick > >>> Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess > >>> real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on > >>> this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines > >>> your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic > >>> makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your > >>> story and many others described on this list as well as my own, > >>> informs this discussion totally. After your description of your > >>> conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am wrong...which > >>> happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring satirically to > >>> the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the safest and most > >>> inclusive identity to have during her lifetime there was a political > >>> one...."we were all 'Germans' then". > >>>>> It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a > >>>>> real time > >>> probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or > >>> more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from all > >>> over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking a > >>> peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, > >>> liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of > >>> the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. > >>> When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" > >>> hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" > >>> was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety of > >>> different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, > >>> education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one > >>> Village group could not understand the language of the Village folk > >>> right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. > >>>>> None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then "thought > >>>>> or > >>> identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole > >>> story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the > >>> appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" does > >>> not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and exciting > >>> grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and tradition...that > >>> is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" > >>> identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better > >>> psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual collectively > >>> and magnificent individually. > >>>>> There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! And > >>>>> she was > >>> born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, Russian, > >>> Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then added English, > >>> figured out the best of the Eastern European ethnicity, was > >>> genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 different religious > >>> affiliations during her lifetime. > >>> Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but I > >>> call it Fabulous!! > >>>>> Karen. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- > >>> From: MFCobb1@aol.com > >>> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > >>> To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; > >>> dvhalas@comcast.net; jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com > >>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 > >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > >>>>> Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank > >>>>> you for > >>> the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a > >>> formal and > >>> elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both > >>> for > >>> you time and effort. > >>>>> Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb > >>> (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio > >>> (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, > >>> Austria-Hungary) > >>> Newberg Oregon > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This discussion seems to never die. I put > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> togeher a few points about the > >>> nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the > >>> issue. The long-time followers of this List may want to skip them > >>>>>>>>> 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people > sharing > >>> common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; or > >>> they can form a national minority. > >>>>> 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the > governments of > >>> the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were > >>> multinational because of the presence of national minorities). > >>>>> 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the > >>> territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of > >>> nationality by the country of birth would have been impossible. > >>> Attempts to change their nationality by force were never completely > >>> successful. > >>>>> 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and > >>> citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by > >>> birth or by naturalization. > >>>>> 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in > the > >>> ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily > >>> citizenship). > >>>>> 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a > >>> nationality, which can make them members of a officially-recognized > >>> national minority. > >>>>>>>>> That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a > >>>>>>>>> well-established > >>> historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, > >>> history, language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language > >>> literature, in the arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was > >>> finally demonstrated by their recent (by historical time) > >>> immigration to and integration in the country of their ancestors. > >>> The latter are the vast majority; we in the New World (North > >>> America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we are > >>> free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our ancestors > >>> made their own decisions. May they rest in peace! > >>>>>>>>> Nick Tullius > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>>>>> -- > >> Syrmia Regional Coordinator > >> http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia > >>>> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >> message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

(re-sending as I'd meant to "Reply All" instead of 'Reply') During WWI ethnic German (DS) immigrants in the U.S. also faced anti-Hungarian sentiment. Just look at some of the posters and propaganda put out at that time to rally public support for the war effort. It was both anti-German and anti-Hungarian. My mother was harassed during her school years being called "Hunky", etc. Her family was from Apatin in the Batschka. At the time they emigrated it was still part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. They undoubtedly would have considered themselves as German-Hungarians. After WWI they and their fellow DS residents established a social club which they named the "George Washington Club". The club during WWII then held many patriotic activities in support of the American war effort. Beth Tolfree -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nick Tullius Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 5:22 AM To: 'DVHH' Subject: Re: [DVHH] FW: German Hungarians There is another reason for ethnic Germans in the USA and Canada after WWI and after WWII to declare themselves to be anything other than German. It is that Germans were often hated and sometimes persecuted for being the enemy. Many friends, neighbours, and coworkers may have had their men over in Europe, fighting the Germans. Some of these men may have been killed over there. In addition, the war propaganda did its best to stir up the hatred not only of Germany, but of anything in any way German. There were closings of German newspapers, clubs, schools (or German classes); the city of Berlin in Ontario was renamed Kitchener. To avoid any undue consequences of being seen as the enemy, many ethnic Germans declared themselves to be Austrians, Hungarians, Romanians, or citizens of the other successor states. The numbers are reflected in the appropriate census data. These reactions are understandable: It is normal that nobody wants to be shunned, disadvantaged, or even persecuted for being "the enemy". Nick Tullius -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rezso Altnetter Sent: 2-May-14 03:08 To: DVHH Subject: Re: [DVHH] FW: German Hungarians Hi Dan, I think I can answer your question. Basically the Austrian-Hungarian Empire had (as the name say) Austria and Hungary as the rulers and the other regions like Bohemia (now Czech Rep) or Transylvania (now Romania) for example were under either Austria or Hungary. The Batschka was part of the Hungarian portion so they were after all Hungarian citizens. If you check this map it's easier to understand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dissolution_of_Austria-Hungary.png There you have what was under Austria and Hungary and then the division of the territories after the WWI when the all Empire colapsed. My ancestors were also German-Hungarians from Vezsprem (now Hungary). And in few documents they declared themselves Hungarians and in others Austrians, but the same as your ancestors, they kept their German culture. I hope it helps :) Regards, Roger Altnetter > From: ajwdcw@windstream.net > To: Donauschwaben-Villages@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 20:40:15 -0400 > Subject: [DVHH] FW: German Hungarians > > So, I have a question. I have ancestry that came to the USA before and > after WWI and they declared themselves to be Hungarian, even though > they were of German heritage. Before the war their town, in the > Batschka, was part of the Austria-Hungarian Empire. After the war they > were part of Yugoslavia. So why did they see themselves as being > Hungarian, as opposed to Austro-Hungarian and Yugoslavian? > Dan Walter > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Steve Berwanger > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:27 PM > To: <mjm1021@comcast.net> > Cc: donauschwaben-villages; Barbara > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German Hungarians > > Thanks........ > This pretty much describes my memories of our family too! > > Steve Berwanger > Sent from my iPad > > > On May 1, 2014, at 11:41 AM, <mjm1021@comcast.net> wrote: > > > > I never had a problem with my parents' describing themselves as > German-Hungarians once I went back and studied their history. They > were Germans who resettled in Hungary but kept their German culture > mixed with some Hungarian culture. When they came to America they > shortened it to German Americans. Their culture was still German > mixed with some Hungarian. > Their descendents became Americans. > > > > Fran Matkovich > > > > Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tony Fieder > > To: Eve, Barbara Hilderson > > Cc: donauschwaben-villages > > Sent: April 30, 2014 at 5:08 PM > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > > > > Is there similar information anywhere for Batschka prisoners??? > > Didn't find my dad's name (Peter) on the site provide below? > > > > Anton Fieder > > > > > >> From: evebrown@gmail.com > >> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:00:40 -0400 > >> To: bhilderson@msn.com > >> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: [DVHH] Replying to posts > >>> This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard > >>> to if > >> they at least leave the last post. > >>> Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line > >>> for the > >> one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have > >> the subject lines edited. > >>> Eve > >>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson > <bhilderson@msn.com>wrote: > >>>> To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please don't > take > >>> offense; but it was very difficult to > >>> read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you > delete > >>> all other messages before replying > >>> it would make your reply easier to read. Barb > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> detention camp on the > >>>>>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of > >>>>>> an > >>>>> exhibition > >>>>>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. > >>>>>>> http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-pris > >>>>>>> on > >>>>>>> ers-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Da > >>>>>>> il > >>>>>>> y+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_me > >>>>>>> y+di > >>>>>>> um=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 > >>>>>>>>>>>> . > >>> to Karen, > >>>>> Thank you for the explanation as to > >>> "Our Beginnings" > >>> We should be grateful for those who went before us...... > >>> And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Diane: > >>>>> With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a > >>>>> guess that > >>> your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent > >>> formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual > >>> Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the > >>> power, > but not the "barbarian' > >>> Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of > >>> course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political > >>> and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from > >>> which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in > >>> Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. > >>>>> I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going > >>>>> with Nick > >>> Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess > >>> real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on > >>> this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines > >>> your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic > >>> makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your > >>> story and many others described on this list as well as my own, > >>> informs this discussion totally. After your description of your > >>> conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am > >>> wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring > >>> satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the > >>> safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime > >>> there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". > >>>>> It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a > >>>>> real time > >>> probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or > >>> more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from > >>> all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking > >>> a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, > >>> liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of > >>> the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. > >>> When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" > >>> hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" > >>> was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety > >>> of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, > >>> education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one > >>> Village group could not understand the language of the Village > >>> folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. > >>>>> None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then > >>>>> "thought or > >>> identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole > >>> story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the > >>> appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" > >>> does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and > >>> exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and > >>> tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" > >>> identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better > >>> psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual > >>> collectively and magnificent individually. > >>>>> There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! > >>>>> And she was > >>> born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, > >>> Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then > >>> added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European > >>> ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 > >>> different religious affiliations during her lifetime. > >>> Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but > >>> I call it Fabulous!! > >>>>> Karen. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- > >>> From: MFCobb1@aol.com > >>> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > >>> To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; > >>> dvhalas@comcast.net; jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com > >>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 > >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > >>>>> Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, thank > >>>>> you for > >>> the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a > >>> formal and > >>> elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both > >>> for > >>> you time and effort. > >>>>> Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb > >>> (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio > >>> (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, > >>> Austria-Hungary) > >>> Newberg Oregon > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This discussion seems to never die. I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put togeher a few points about the > >>> nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the > >>> issue. The long-time followers of this List may want to skip them > >>>>>>>>> 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people > sharing > >>> common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; > >>> or they can form a national minority. > >>>>> 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the > governments of > >>> the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were > >>> multinational because of the presence of national minorities). > >>>>> 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the > >>> territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of > >>> nationality by the country of birth would have been impossible. > >>> Attempts to change their nationality by force were never > >>> completely successful. > >>>>> 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and > >>> citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by > >>> birth or by naturalization. > >>>>> 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in > the > >>> ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily > >>> citizenship). > >>>>> 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a > >>> nationality, which can make them members of a > >>> officially-recognized national minority. > >>>>>>>>> That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a > >>>>>>>>> well-established > >>> historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, > >>> history, language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language > >>> literature, in the arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was > >>> finally demonstrated by their recent (by historical time) > >>> immigration to and integration in the country of their ancestors. > >>> The latter are the vast majority; we in the New World (North > >>> America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we are > >>> free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our > >>> ancestors made their own decisions. May they rest in peace! > >>>>>>>>> Nick Tullius > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>>>>> -- > >> Syrmia Regional Coordinator > >> http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia > >>>> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >> message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is another reason for ethnic Germans in the USA and Canada after WWI and after WWII to declare themselves to be anything other than German. It is that Germans were often hated and sometimes persecuted for being the enemy. Many friends, neighbours, and coworkers may have had their men over in Europe, fighting the Germans. Some of these men may have been killed over there. In addition, the war propaganda did its best to stir up the hatred not only of Germany, but of anything in any way German. There were closings of German newspapers, clubs, schools (or German classes); the city of Berlin in Ontario was renamed Kitchener. To avoid any undue consequences of being seen as the enemy, many ethnic Germans declared themselves to be Austrians, Hungarians, Romanians, or citizens of the other successor states. The numbers are reflected in the appropriate census data. These reactions are understandable: It is normal that nobody wants to be shunned, disadvantaged, or even persecuted for being "the enemy". Nick Tullius -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rezso Altnetter Sent: 2-May-14 03:08 To: DVHH Subject: Re: [DVHH] FW: German Hungarians Hi Dan, I think I can answer your question. Basically the Austrian-Hungarian Empire had (as the name say) Austria and Hungary as the rulers and the other regions like Bohemia (now Czech Rep) or Transylvania (now Romania) for example were under either Austria or Hungary. The Batschka was part of the Hungarian portion so they were after all Hungarian citizens. If you check this map it's easier to understand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dissolution_of_Austria-Hungary.png There you have what was under Austria and Hungary and then the division of the territories after the WWI when the all Empire colapsed. My ancestors were also German-Hungarians from Vezsprem (now Hungary). And in few documents they declared themselves Hungarians and in others Austrians, but the same as your ancestors, they kept their German culture. I hope it helps :) Regards, Roger Altnetter > From: ajwdcw@windstream.net > To: Donauschwaben-Villages@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 20:40:15 -0400 > Subject: [DVHH] FW: German Hungarians > > So, I have a question. I have ancestry that came to the USA before and > after WWI and they declared themselves to be Hungarian, even though > they were of German heritage. Before the war their town, in the > Batschka, was part of the Austria-Hungarian Empire. After the war they > were part of Yugoslavia. So why did they see themselves as being > Hungarian, as opposed to Austro-Hungarian and Yugoslavian? > Dan Walter > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Steve Berwanger > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:27 PM > To: <mjm1021@comcast.net> > Cc: donauschwaben-villages; Barbara > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German Hungarians > > Thanks........ > This pretty much describes my memories of our family too! > > Steve Berwanger > Sent from my iPad > > > On May 1, 2014, at 11:41 AM, <mjm1021@comcast.net> wrote: > > > > I never had a problem with my parents' describing themselves as > German-Hungarians once I went back and studied their history. They > were Germans who resettled in Hungary but kept their German culture > mixed with some Hungarian culture. When they came to America they > shortened it to German Americans. Their culture was still German mixed with some Hungarian. > Their descendents became Americans. > > > > Fran Matkovich > > > > Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tony Fieder > > To: Eve, Barbara Hilderson > > Cc: donauschwaben-villages > > Sent: April 30, 2014 at 5:08 PM > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > > > > Is there similar information anywhere for Batschka prisoners??? > > Didn't find my dad's name (Peter) on the site provide below? > > > > Anton Fieder > > > > > >> From: evebrown@gmail.com > >> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:00:40 -0400 > >> To: bhilderson@msn.com > >> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: [DVHH] Replying to posts > >>> This is true, but it helps to know what the response is in regard > >>> to if > >> they at least leave the last post. > >>> Also helpful is for those with digest mode to use the subject line > >>> for the > >> one they are responding to - in fact all digest mail needs to have > >> the subject lines edited. > >>> Eve > >>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Barbara Hilderson > <bhilderson@msn.com>wrote: > >>>> To the DVHH members, I've edited Vol.7.Ossie 114 . Please don't > take > >>> offense; but it was very difficult to > >>> read your postings. Perhaps, if when you reply to a message you > delete > >>> all other messages before replying > >>> it would make your reply easier to read. Barb > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yugoslav Post-WWII Jail Camp Prisoners Named > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The names of people imprisoned at a notorious > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> detention camp on the > >>>>>> Croatian island of Goli Otok were published online as part of > >>>>>> an > >>>>> exhibition > >>>>>> aimed at exposing Communist crimes. > >>>>>>> http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/list-of-goli-otok-pris > >>>>>>> on > >>>>>>> ers-published-online?utm_source=Balkan+Transitional+Justice+Da > >>>>>>> il > >>>>>>> y+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c28b26ea0b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_me > >>>>>>> y+di > >>>>>>> um=email&utm_term=0_561b9a25c3-c28b26ea0b-319678805 > >>>>>>>>>>>> . > >>> to Karen, > >>>>> Thank you for the explanation as to > >>> "Our Beginnings" > >>> We should be grateful for those who went before us...... > >>> And.......my "Great Aunt Annie" was the best cook in the world !!!!! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Diane: > >>>>> With all due and grateful respect to everyone, I would hazard a > >>>>> guess that > >>> your Grandmother's political consciousness was to some extent > >>> formed during the short period in the 1800s when there was a "Dual > >>> Monarchy", and the Austrian aristocracy wanted the land and the > >>> power, > but not the "barbarian' > >>> Hungarians....see the story of Leopold and his suicide. That of > >>> course is a vast simplification of a very complicated political > >>> and historical period in history, but it gives you the basics from > >>> which to begin to understand the geographic and political mess in > >>> Eastern Europe beginning in the early 1800s and going forward. > >>>>> I have had a very interesting and informative dialogue going > >>>>> with Nick > >>> Tullis who is a first person immigrant and lived through the mess > >>> real time in the 1900s. He is certainly an eye witness expert on > >>> this, but I disagree with him that your "native tongue" determines > >>> your "ethnicity" which then becomes tangled into what your genetic > >>> makeup reveals and what informs your personal "identity". Your > >>> story and many others described on this list as well as my own, > >>> informs this discussion totally. After your description of your > >>> conversation with your Grandmother, correct me if I am > >>> wrong...which happens often :).....your Grandmother was referring > >>> satirically to the fact that in the territories of the Banat, the > >>> safest and most inclusive identity to have during her lifetime > >>> there was a political one...."we were all 'Germans' then". > >>>>> It seems to me all the most recent discussion threads evidence a > >>>>> real time > >>> probability that most folks in Eastern Europe during a 200 year or > >>> more period were in fact a microcosm of like-minded people from > >>> all over greater Europe and the Indian Peninsula who were seeking > >>> a peace and prosperity that is universal. They were brave, > >>> liberty-loving people who had migrated to the vast territories of > >>> the Hungarian and Russian Empires to be peaceful and productive. > >>> When you look closely you come to discover that their "ethnicity" > >>> hailed from a vast number of other areas, and their "citizenship" > >>> was fragile at best and in constant flux. Just the huge variety > >>> of different dialects, recipe differences, religious traditions, > >>> education attitudes, and flat-out languages where sometimes one > >>> Village group could not understand the language of the Village > >>> folk right next to them, speaks to that fact and informs it. > >>>>> None of what I have just said DIMINISHES what anyone then > >>>>> "thought or > >>> identified" themselves as, but rather I believe makes the whole > >>> story far richer and much more interesting! I believe the > >>> appropriateness of a collective identity called "Donauschwaben" > >>> does not describe "Germans", but rather a vastly complex and > >>> exciting grouping of people with the SAMEness of ideal and > >>> tradition...that is... great food, wonderful and loving "Village" > >>> identity, the best parts of a "Migration" to something better > >>> psyche, and a courage and strength that is both unusual > >>> collectively and magnificent individually. > >>>>> There was no braver person on this earth than my Grandmother! > >>>>> And she was > >>> born a Hungarian, lived as a mixed "German,Serb,Hungarian, > >>> Russian, Italian, French, Croat", spoke 4 languages and then > >>> added English, figured out the best of the Eastern European > >>> ethnicity, was genetically a mixed Caucasian and practiced 3 > >>> different religious affiliations during her lifetime. > >>> Then...she became an American. Don't know what you call that, but > >>> I call it Fabulous!! > >>>>> Karen. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- > >>> From: MFCobb1@aol.com > >>> CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > >>> To: bbd2424@gmail.com; islandkaren@bellsouth.net; > >>> dvhalas@comcast.net; jfschambre@comcast.net; easimcox@gmail.com > >>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:40:31 -0400 > >>> Subject: Re: [DVHH] History of Germany - and DNA results > >>>>> Barb & Karen, I agree whole heartedly--well done. Karen, > >>>>> thank you for > >>> the well-thought-out epistle, and I use the word epistle as in a > >>> formal and > >>> elegant letter. This is going into my reference files. Thank you both > >>> for > >>> you time and effort. > >>>>> Marcia Fay (WAGENHALS) Cobb > >>> (Formerly of Mansfield, Ohio > >>> (My father was born in Kanak but emigrated from Franzfeld, > >>> Austria-Hungary) > >>> Newberg Oregon > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This discussion seems to never die. I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put togeher a few points about the > >>> nationality of the Danube Swabians in an attempt to clarify the > >>> issue. The long-time followers of this List may want to skip them > >>>>>>>>> 1. The dictionary definition of nationality: a body of people > sharing > >>> common descent, history, language, etc; they could form a nation; > >>> or they can form a national minority. > >>>>> 2. National minorities were officially recognized by the > governments of > >>> the more enlightened multi-national states of Europe (they were > >>> multinational because of the presence of national minorities). > >>>>> 3. With the multiple changes of borders and/or sovereignty in the > >>> territories inhabited by Danube Swabians, the determination of > >>> nationality by the country of birth would have been impossible. > >>> Attempts to change their nationality by force were never > >>> completely successful. > >>>>> 4. In new countries being built from immigrants, nationality and > >>> citizenship (here considered the same) were usually acquired by > >>> birth or by naturalization. > >>>>> 5. In older countries, such as Germany, belonging to a people in > the > >>> ethnic sense is referred to as nationality (but not necessarily > >>> citizenship). > >>>>> 6. Even in today's post-Communist States, citizens are assigned a > >>> nationality, which can make them members of a > >>> officially-recognized national minority. > >>>>>>>>> That the Danube Swabians are an ethnic German group is a > >>>>>>>>> well-established > >>> historical fact. It is determined not only by common descent, > >>> history, language, but a vast cultural heritage in German-language > >>> literature, in the arts like painting, sculpture and music. It was > >>> finally demonstrated by their recent (by historical time) > >>> immigration to and integration in the country of their ancestors. > >>> The latter are the vast majority; we in the New World (North > >>> America, Australia, Brazil, etc) are a small minority, and we are > >>> free to personally decide who we are and what we are. Our > >>> ancestors made their own decisions. May they rest in peace! > >>>>>>>>> Nick Tullius > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>>>>> -- > >> Syrmia Regional Coordinator > >> http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia > >>>> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >> message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear DVHH Listers, The e-mail for Brunhilde Hinkel, who authored an Ortsippenbuch on Tschanad (Cenad) is apparently defunct. Is there anyone out there with these two volumes who could do a look up on the surnames Frank and Sigmund? Much appreciated! Bill Knuttel, Napa, CA

Hi Dan, I think if this is a complete history book of Werbass, it should at least give the names of the people that lived there during the said period. I'm looking for a certain MICHEL, Philipp born in 1763 (probably not there), married to Christina Schweich, and having 3 to 4 sons. How can I can a copy of this book, or at least a copy of the pages that would be of interest to me? Thank you for your response. Tina Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrea & Dan Walter To: 'Tina Michel' Cc: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 8:30 PM Subject: Alt-Werbass Family Book I have just one book that I got from my father titled "Werbass 1785 - 1975", but nothing on Alt-Werbass. If anyone knows of a family book like this, please let us know. I have heritage from Neu-Werbass and Alt-Werbass. Dan Walter From: Tina Michel [mailto:tranpro@primus.ca] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 11:51 AM To: John Haumann; Andrea & Dan Walter Cc: 'dvhh' Subject: Re: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares Hi John and Dan, Any body of you - or some else - happen to know anything about the family book of Werbass, more precisely Alt-Werbass? I'm actually looking to see if any document exists on the list of the inhabitants of this town/village in the late 1700's. My ancestor was supposed to have lived there sometime before 1819 and then he moved to another village. Thank you so much. Tina Michel, Montreal, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haumann" <haumann@earthlink.net> To: "Andrea & Dan Walter" <ajwdcw@windstream.net> Cc: "'dvhh'" <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares Hello Dan, Thanks for the reply. Do you have any knowledge of an Ares HAUMANN among the descendants? Werbaß is actually just about 40 kM north (and a little east) of Palanka where my father and his six brothers and sisters were born. I am reasonably certain that they remained in Neu Palanka at least through about 1929 or 1930, but most likely remained there until the incursion of Tito's Partisans in the fall of 1944. Aside from my father, I have personal knowledge of the whereabouts of only one of his siblings (a sister and her subsequent family). Incidentally, I have been able (with considerable help from the DVHH community) to trace my HAUMANN line back to Konrad HAUMANN and Elisabeth MANTZ of Filipowa in the late 1700s. John (Hans) Haumann On Apr 30, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Andrea & Dan Walter wrote: > I have a number of Haumann's in my line, but they originate from the > Batschka region, around Werbass. > Dan Walter > > -----Original Message----- > From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Haumann > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:25 AM > To: dvhh > Subject: [DVHH] Seeking information on HAUMANN, Ares > > > I am trying to determine whether HAUMANN, Ares might have been a relative on > my father's side. I have only the sketchiest of information, but I can > share what little I know. > > Ares HAUMANN died sometime in 1999, possibly in Britain, or maybe Spain or > Argentina. That's it. > > If we are related, it would likely be as first cousins (possibly a son of > one of my father's brothers). My father is HAUMANN, Stefan, b-1904 > (Palanka), d-1981 (Cleveland) > > The brothers... > HAUMANN, Johann, b-1894 > HAUMANN, Martin, b-1896 > HAUMANN, Jakob, b-1902 > HAUMANN, Andreas, b-1908 > > Not much to go on. I would appreciate any ideas. > > Thanks, > > John (Hans) Haumann > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- Aucun virus trouvé dans ce message. Analyse effectuée par AVG - www.avg.fr Version: 2013.0.3469 / Base de données virale: 3722/7423 - Date: 01/05/2014 Aucun virus trouvé dans ce message. Analyse effectuée par AVG - www.avg.fr Version: 2013.0.3469 / Base de données virale: 3722/7426 - Date: 01/05/2014