Henry, Excellent clarification! Tony > From: hjfischer@rogers.com > To: joepsotka@gmail.com > Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:14:06 -0400 > CC: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > I’m afraid that you missed the point of my email response. The term the Banat is used extensively on the DVHH to designate one of the major settlement areas of our Danube Swabian forebears as a whole and our members and readers view it as such in general discourse. When referring specifically to either portion of the Banat after its partition in 1919 we identify it as either the Yugoslavian or Romanian Banat to clarify the area being discussed in order to avoid any confusion on the part of the reader. I hope that clarifies the matter. > > Henry Fischer > > From: joepsotka@gmail.com > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:38 AM > To: Henry Fischer > Cc: dvhh > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > Still, Laszlo was correct. The only Banat in existence in 1941 - 1944 was the autonomous administrative area of Rump Serbia headed by Nedic, but in fact controlled by the Nazi German military. Under the Nazi administration the local Shwovish cultural association, headed by Josef (Sepp) Janko, had many high government positions and was a privileged minority. During the period 1941 - 1944 Hitler was still undecided about whether to include this area of the Vojvodina with the Batschka and Baranja in the area controlled by Hungary (who continued to press for control of the Banat) and this created a great deal of tension between the Hungarians and Shwoveh in this area. > > The new quisling state of Serbia, including the Banat in 1941 under the provisional government of the > General Milan Nedic , who took over the leadership on August 29, 1941, remained in the role of a satellite state of the Axis powers . > > The Shwoveh belonging to the Banat area of this Serbia were under the guidance of community leader Sepp Janko and formed an autonomous " ethnic group“. Along with the scattered Shwovish settlements of Serbia they were put under the patronage and protection of the German Military Administration. For instance, the reprisal killings of Serbs during the Winter of 1941 to 1942 where 100 Serbs (initially mainly Jewish Serbs) were killed as a punishment for the death of any German Soldier applied equally to the death of any Shwobe. From the summer of 1941 on, the Shwoveh outside of the Batschka and Baranja in the former Vojvodina were administrators of many German directives. Sepp Janko (1943) > > writes: > > " The fate of the ethnic group as well as the fate of our Homeland > > will be decided neither by the responsible parties > > in Belgrade nor by us. It will be decided finally and irrevocably > > only by the one man whom we have confidently given our trust, and whose orders > > we have sworn our lifelong fidelity and whose commands we > > will carry out completely even if they demand self-sacrifice : Adolf Hitler. " (Dr. Sepp Janko, 1944, „Reden und Aufsaetze“, p. 72. In my collection.) > > > > > Sent from Windows Mail > > From: Henry Fischer > Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎30‎ ‎PM > To: László Békési, dvhh > > The Banat that Laszlo is referring to is the western Banat which was part of > Yugoslavia and not the eastern part which was ceded to Romania after the > First World War. We need to be specific in the use of our terms to avoid > confusion on the part of others not as well versed in these matters. > > Henry Fischer > > -----Original Message----- > From: László Békési > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 AM > To: donauschwaben-villages > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > Only one remark to Fran's comment: there was no Hungarian rule in the Banat > in 1941-1944. It remained under German military government after the > campaign in 1941, Hungary received Batschka, Baranya and some smaller > territories along the river Mur. > Best regards > Laszlo > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, Henry, very well done! Eve On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Rose Vetter <rosevetter@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you, Henry, for clarifying the complex issue of the two Banats for > the benefit of all of us! > > Rose > > > On 15 May 2014 16:14, Henry Fischer <hjfischer@rogers.com> wrote: > > > I’m afraid that you missed the point of my email response. The term the > > Banat is used extensively on the DVHH to designate one of the major > > settlement areas of our Danube Swabian forebears as a whole and our > members > > and readers view it as such in general discourse. When referring > > specifically to either portion of the Banat after its partition in 1919 > we > > identify it as either the Yugoslavian or Romanian Banat to clarify the > area > > being discussed in order to avoid any confusion on the part of the > reader. > > I hope that clarifies the matter. > > > > Henry Fischer > > > > From: joepsotka@gmail.com > > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:38 AM > > To: Henry Fischer > > Cc: dvhh > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > > > Still, Laszlo was correct. The only Banat in existence in 1941 - 1944 > was > > the autonomous administrative area of Rump Serbia headed by Nedic, but in > > fact controlled by the Nazi German military. Under the Nazi > administration > > the local Shwovish cultural association, headed by Josef (Sepp) Janko, > had > > many high government positions and was a privileged minority. During the > > period 1941 - 1944 Hitler was still undecided about whether to include > this > > area of the Vojvodina with the Batschka and Baranja in the area > controlled > > by Hungary (who continued to press for control of the Banat) and this > > created a great deal of tension between the Hungarians and Shwoveh in > this > > area. > > > > The new quisling state of Serbia, including the Banat in 1941 under the > > provisional government of the > > General Milan Nedic , who took over the leadership on August 29, 1941, > > remained in the role of a satellite state of the Axis powers . > > > > The Shwoveh belonging to the Banat area of this Serbia were under the > > guidance of community leader Sepp Janko and formed an autonomous " ethnic > > group“. Along with the scattered Shwovish settlements of Serbia they > were > > put under the patronage and protection of the German Military > > Administration. For instance, the reprisal killings of Serbs during the > > Winter of 1941 to 1942 where 100 Serbs (initially mainly Jewish Serbs) > were > > killed as a punishment for the death of any German Soldier applied > equally > > to the death of any Shwobe. From the summer of 1941 on, the Shwoveh > > outside of the Batschka and Baranja in the former Vojvodina were > > administrators of many German directives. Sepp Janko (1943) > > > > writes: > > > > " The fate of the ethnic group as well as the fate of our Homeland > > > > will be decided neither by the responsible parties > > > > in Belgrade nor by us. It will be decided finally and irrevocably > > > > only by the one man whom we have confidently given our trust, and whose > > orders > > > > we have sworn our lifelong fidelity and whose commands we > > > > will carry out completely even if they demand self-sacrifice : Adolf > > Hitler. " (Dr. Sepp Janko, 1944, „Reden und Aufsaetze“, p. 72. In my > > collection.) > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Windows Mail > > > > From: Henry Fischer > > Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎30‎ ‎PM > > To: László Békési, dvhh > > > > The Banat that Laszlo is referring to is the western Banat which was part > > of > > Yugoslavia and not the eastern part which was ceded to Romania after the > > First World War. We need to be specific in the use of our terms to avoid > > confusion on the part of others not as well versed in these matters. > > > > Henry Fischer > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: László Békési > > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 AM > > To: donauschwaben-villages > > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > > > Only one remark to Fran's comment: there was no Hungarian rule in the > Banat > > in 1941-1944. It remained under German military government after the > > campaign in 1941, Hungary received Batschka, Baranya and some smaller > > territories along the river Mur. > > Best regards > > Laszlo > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Syrmia Regional Coordinator http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia

Wow Tina! No, I didn't know that Wikipedia has it set up like that. Thanx so much for letting me know and for the links! I agree with you, the Alemannische version was much easier for me to read...The Pen Deitsch uses more words that I am not familiar with, though I can usually decipher what they are saying...This is so much fun. Thanx again! Daniela -----Original Message----- From: Tina Michel <tranpro@primus.ca> Hey Daniela and Alex, Have you ever noticed at Wikipedia they translate a lot of pages in Pen Deitsch (Amish) and even Alemanic, which, I think resembles even more the Schwowisch my Dad who came from Croatia spoke. For example, under Amish, you can choose: Pen Deitsch: http://pdc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amisch Alemanic: http://als.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amische Tina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniela" <danielashowley@aol.com> > > Hi there Alex...That's the website that Lotte had put through about the > Pennsylvania Dutch. And yes, that is Amish. Can you read and understand > their dialect? I can. Though some of the words are spelled differently > than how I would write them or say them, I can still make them out and > understand what they are saying. It's amazing. I actually want to visit > the Amish now because of it. I would have much fun talking with them. > > > Daniela Ivkovic Showley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Leeb <al4501@shaw.ca> > Hi Daniela. > > Is this Amisch ? > > http://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/ > > Alex. >

Thank you Henry. Jody -----Original Message----- From: donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donauschwaben-villages-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Henry Fischer Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:14 PM To: joepsotka@gmail.com Cc: dvhh Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship I’m afraid that you missed the point of my email response. The term the Banat is used extensively on the DVHH to designate one of the major settlement areas of our Danube Swabian forebears as a whole and our members and readers view it as such in general discourse. When referring specifically to either portion of the Banat after its partition in 1919 we identify it as either the Yugoslavian or Romanian Banat to clarify the area being discussed in order to avoid any confusion on the part of the reader. I hope that clarifies the matter. Henry Fischer From: joepsotka@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:38 AM To: Henry Fischer Cc: dvhh Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship Still, Laszlo was correct. The only Banat in existence in 1941 - 1944 was the autonomous administrative area of Rump Serbia headed by Nedic, but in fact controlled by the Nazi German military. Under the Nazi administration the local Shwovish cultural association, headed by Josef (Sepp) Janko, had many high government positions and was a privileged minority. During the period 1941 - 1944 Hitler was still undecided about whether to include this area of the Vojvodina with the Batschka and Baranja in the area controlled by Hungary (who continued to press for control of the Banat) and this created a great deal of tension between the Hungarians and Shwoveh in this area. The new quisling state of Serbia, including the Banat in 1941 under the provisional government of the General Milan Nedic , who took over the leadership on August 29, 1941, remained in the role of a satellite state of the Axis powers . The Shwoveh belonging to the Banat area of this Serbia were under the guidance of community leader Sepp Janko and formed an autonomous " ethnic group“. Along with the scattered Shwovish settlements of Serbia they were put under the patronage and protection of the German Military Administration. For instance, the reprisal killings of Serbs during the Winter of 1941 to 1942 where 100 Serbs (initially mainly Jewish Serbs) were killed as a punishment for the death of any German Soldier applied equally to the death of any Shwobe. From the summer of 1941 on, the Shwoveh outside of the Batschka and Baranja in the former Vojvodina were administrators of many German directives. Sepp Janko (1943) writes: " The fate of the ethnic group as well as the fate of our Homeland will be decided neither by the responsible parties in Belgrade nor by us. It will be decided finally and irrevocably only by the one man whom we have confidently given our trust, and whose orders we have sworn our lifelong fidelity and whose commands we will carry out completely even if they demand self-sacrifice : Adolf Hitler. " (Dr. Sepp Janko, 1944, „Reden und Aufsaetze“, p. 72. In my collection.) Sent from Windows Mail From: Henry Fischer Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎30‎ ‎PM To: László Békési, dvhh The Banat that Laszlo is referring to is the western Banat which was part of Yugoslavia and not the eastern part which was ceded to Romania after the First World War. We need to be specific in the use of our terms to avoid confusion on the part of others not as well versed in these matters. Henry Fischer -----Original Message----- From: László Békési Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 AM To: donauschwaben-villages Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship Only one remark to Fran's comment: there was no Hungarian rule in the Banat in 1941-1944. It remained under German military government after the campaign in 1941, Hungary received Batschka, Baranya and some smaller territories along the river Mur. Best regards Laszlo ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hey Daniela and Alex, Have you ever noticed at Wikipedia they translate a lot of pages in Pen Deitsch (Amish) and even Alemanic, which, I think resembles even more the Schwowisch my Dad who came from Croatia spoke. For example, under Amish, you can choose: Pen Deitsch: http://pdc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amisch Alemanic: http://als.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amische Tina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniela" <danielashowley@aol.com> To: <al4501@shaw.ca> Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Pennsylvania Dutch and Donauschwaben > > > Hi there Alex...That's the website that Lotte had put through about the > Pennsylvania Dutch. And yes, that is Amish. Can you read and understand > their dialect? I can. Though some of the words are spelled differently > than how I would write them or say them, I can still make them out and > understand what they are saying. It's amazing. I actually want to visit > the Amish now because of it. I would have much fun talking with them. > > > Daniela Ivkovic Showley > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Leeb <al4501@shaw.ca> > To: Daniela <danielashowley@aol.com> > > Hi Daniela. > > Is this Amisch ? > > http://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/ > > Alex. > > > On 2014-05-15, at 12:34 PM, Daniela wrote: > >> The Amish are Germanic. They come from the Palatinate region which is a >> region > in Southwestern Germany. I was amazed at how similiar their dialect is to > the > Schwowish I speak. I can understand them very well. But, I think if they > have a > link with the Donauschwaben it is a small link. The Amish today are still > holding up their tradition, but I think their younger generations are > looking > for a change. By tradition, the Amish live more or less by what Mother > Nature > gives them. They shun technology and I believe their young generation > wants that > now. But there are big similarities between the Amish and Donauschwaben > because > both were agriculturally orientated and very hard working people. So from > the > standpoint that they have cultivated the land and worked very hard they > are like > the Donauschwaben. >> >> >> Daniela Ivkovic Showley >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ----- > Aucun virus trouve dans ce message. > Analyse effectuee par AVG - www.avg.fr > Version: 2013.0.3469 / Base de donnees virale: 3722/7502 - Date: > 15/05/2014 >

Hi Alex, I did not know the word " Hiewwe un Driewe" is used by the Amish here also. It certainly was at home in the place of my birth "Indjija" with a German population of six tsd. of the towns total population of eight tsd. Indija was settled by Germans (late) from 1825 to 1888 coming from other settlements in the Danube lowlands. I won't argue the word comes from the Amish who later settled in the 'Palatinate' or the 'Alsace' or the settlers, that made the Indija a boomtown - culturally and spiritually. Neither do I want to call any one who posted this article "of the rockers." To express my feelings: the word just triggered a backlash of my younger years where every one in Indija knew these two words "Driewe and Hiewwe" (Driewe means 'over there - Hiewe here-or 'this sides'.) Practically all (the "Newcomers") to Indija were labeled "they came from over there to here - and the towns people all knew the word as an everyday word. Amazing what a dialect expression can do.. for the memory generation can now say: some are living "Hiewe" - across the sea, but a majority of the "Indjija" survivors are still living "Driewe" - there in the old 'motherland' ! Gary Gerhard Banzhaf/ Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Leeb" <al4501@shaw.ca> To: "Daniela" <danielashowley@aol.com> Cc: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [DVHH] Pennsylvania Dutch and Donauschwaben > > > Hi Daniela. > > Is this Amisch ? > > http://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/ > > Alex. > > > On 2014-05-15, at 12:34 PM, Daniela wrote: > >> The Amish are Germanic. They come from the Palatinate region which is a >> region in Southwestern Germany. I was amazed at how similiar their >> dialect is to the Schwowish I speak. I can understand them very well. >> But, I think if they have a link with the Donauschwaben it is a small >> link. The Amish today are still holding up their tradition, but I think >> their younger generations are looking for a change. By tradition, the >> Amish live more or less by what Mother Nature gives them. They shun >> technology and I believe their young generation wants that now. But there >> are big similarities between the Amish and Donauschwaben because both >> were agriculturally orientated and very hard working people. So from the >> standpoint that they have cultivated the land and worked very hard they >> are like the Donauschwaben. >> >> >> Daniela Ivkovic Showley >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rita Schiwanowitsch <schiwanore@msn.com> >> >> >> Hi Lotte, >> I was watching a show on television about the Penn Dutch people one day. >> They >> would occasionally film the people in the sho speaking their language. >> Yes, I >> agree it is similar to Schwowisch. Although I did not understand every >> word >> they said, I could understand enough to get the gist of what they were >> saying. >> My mother, who was born near Belgrade, has always wanted to visit these >> people. >> She has read that they live the way her people did. One day I hope to >> fulfill >> her wish. >> Rita >> >>> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 08:37:15 -0400 >>> From: suervl@roadrunner.com >> >>> >>> Lotte- >>> >>> I don't think you're off your rocker. There were thousands of Palantines >>> who >> came to Philadelphia in the early-mid 1700's. One of them was my >> husband's 5th >> great grandfather -Jacob Enckisch - somewhere along the line his name was >> Anglo-sized to Anguish. He along with many other Palantine families, >> later >> settled in New York's Mohawk Valley. >>> >>> Sue >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I’m afraid that you missed the point of my email response. The term the Banat is used extensively on the DVHH to designate one of the major settlement areas of our Danube Swabian forebears as a whole and our members and readers view it as such in general discourse. When referring specifically to either portion of the Banat after its partition in 1919 we identify it as either the Yugoslavian or Romanian Banat to clarify the area being discussed in order to avoid any confusion on the part of the reader. I hope that clarifies the matter. Henry Fischer From: joepsotka@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:38 AM To: Henry Fischer Cc: dvhh Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship Still, Laszlo was correct. The only Banat in existence in 1941 - 1944 was the autonomous administrative area of Rump Serbia headed by Nedic, but in fact controlled by the Nazi German military. Under the Nazi administration the local Shwovish cultural association, headed by Josef (Sepp) Janko, had many high government positions and was a privileged minority. During the period 1941 - 1944 Hitler was still undecided about whether to include this area of the Vojvodina with the Batschka and Baranja in the area controlled by Hungary (who continued to press for control of the Banat) and this created a great deal of tension between the Hungarians and Shwoveh in this area. The new quisling state of Serbia, including the Banat in 1941 under the provisional government of the General Milan Nedic , who took over the leadership on August 29, 1941, remained in the role of a satellite state of the Axis powers . The Shwoveh belonging to the Banat area of this Serbia were under the guidance of community leader Sepp Janko and formed an autonomous " ethnic group“. Along with the scattered Shwovish settlements of Serbia they were put under the patronage and protection of the German Military Administration. For instance, the reprisal killings of Serbs during the Winter of 1941 to 1942 where 100 Serbs (initially mainly Jewish Serbs) were killed as a punishment for the death of any German Soldier applied equally to the death of any Shwobe. From the summer of 1941 on, the Shwoveh outside of the Batschka and Baranja in the former Vojvodina were administrators of many German directives. Sepp Janko (1943) writes: " The fate of the ethnic group as well as the fate of our Homeland will be decided neither by the responsible parties in Belgrade nor by us. It will be decided finally and irrevocably only by the one man whom we have confidently given our trust, and whose orders we have sworn our lifelong fidelity and whose commands we will carry out completely even if they demand self-sacrifice : Adolf Hitler. " (Dr. Sepp Janko, 1944, „Reden und Aufsaetze“, p. 72. In my collection.) Sent from Windows Mail From: Henry Fischer Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎30‎ ‎PM To: László Békési, dvhh The Banat that Laszlo is referring to is the western Banat which was part of Yugoslavia and not the eastern part which was ceded to Romania after the First World War. We need to be specific in the use of our terms to avoid confusion on the part of others not as well versed in these matters. Henry Fischer -----Original Message----- From: László Békési Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 AM To: donauschwaben-villages Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship Only one remark to Fran's comment: there was no Hungarian rule in the Banat in 1941-1944. It remained under German military government after the campaign in 1941, Hungary received Batschka, Baranya and some smaller territories along the river Mur. Best regards Laszlo

Hi there Alex...That's the website that Lotte had put through about the Pennsylvania Dutch. And yes, that is Amish. Can you read and understand their dialect? I can. Though some of the words are spelled differently than how I would write them or say them, I can still make them out and understand what they are saying. It's amazing. I actually want to visit the Amish now because of it. I would have much fun talking with them. Daniela Ivkovic Showley -----Original Message----- From: Alex Leeb <al4501@shaw.ca> To: Daniela <danielashowley@aol.com> Hi Daniela. Is this Amisch ? http://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/ Alex. On 2014-05-15, at 12:34 PM, Daniela wrote: > The Amish are Germanic. They come from the Palatinate region which is a region in Southwestern Germany. I was amazed at how similiar their dialect is to the Schwowish I speak. I can understand them very well. But, I think if they have a link with the Donauschwaben it is a small link. The Amish today are still holding up their tradition, but I think their younger generations are looking for a change. By tradition, the Amish live more or less by what Mother Nature gives them. They shun technology and I believe their young generation wants that now. But there are big similarities between the Amish and Donauschwaben because both were agriculturally orientated and very hard working people. So from the standpoint that they have cultivated the land and worked very hard they are like the Donauschwaben. > > > Daniela Ivkovic Showley >

Thank you, Henry, for clarifying the complex issue of the two Banats for the benefit of all of us! Rose On 15 May 2014 16:14, Henry Fischer <hjfischer@rogers.com> wrote: > I’m afraid that you missed the point of my email response. The term the > Banat is used extensively on the DVHH to designate one of the major > settlement areas of our Danube Swabian forebears as a whole and our members > and readers view it as such in general discourse. When referring > specifically to either portion of the Banat after its partition in 1919 we > identify it as either the Yugoslavian or Romanian Banat to clarify the area > being discussed in order to avoid any confusion on the part of the reader. > I hope that clarifies the matter. > > Henry Fischer > > From: joepsotka@gmail.com > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:38 AM > To: Henry Fischer > Cc: dvhh > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > Still, Laszlo was correct. The only Banat in existence in 1941 - 1944 was > the autonomous administrative area of Rump Serbia headed by Nedic, but in > fact controlled by the Nazi German military. Under the Nazi administration > the local Shwovish cultural association, headed by Josef (Sepp) Janko, had > many high government positions and was a privileged minority. During the > period 1941 - 1944 Hitler was still undecided about whether to include this > area of the Vojvodina with the Batschka and Baranja in the area controlled > by Hungary (who continued to press for control of the Banat) and this > created a great deal of tension between the Hungarians and Shwoveh in this > area. > > The new quisling state of Serbia, including the Banat in 1941 under the > provisional government of the > General Milan Nedic , who took over the leadership on August 29, 1941, > remained in the role of a satellite state of the Axis powers . > > The Shwoveh belonging to the Banat area of this Serbia were under the > guidance of community leader Sepp Janko and formed an autonomous " ethnic > group“. Along with the scattered Shwovish settlements of Serbia they were > put under the patronage and protection of the German Military > Administration. For instance, the reprisal killings of Serbs during the > Winter of 1941 to 1942 where 100 Serbs (initially mainly Jewish Serbs) were > killed as a punishment for the death of any German Soldier applied equally > to the death of any Shwobe. From the summer of 1941 on, the Shwoveh > outside of the Batschka and Baranja in the former Vojvodina were > administrators of many German directives. Sepp Janko (1943) > > writes: > > " The fate of the ethnic group as well as the fate of our Homeland > > will be decided neither by the responsible parties > > in Belgrade nor by us. It will be decided finally and irrevocably > > only by the one man whom we have confidently given our trust, and whose > orders > > we have sworn our lifelong fidelity and whose commands we > > will carry out completely even if they demand self-sacrifice : Adolf > Hitler. " (Dr. Sepp Janko, 1944, „Reden und Aufsaetze“, p. 72. In my > collection.) > > > > > Sent from Windows Mail > > From: Henry Fischer > Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎30‎ ‎PM > To: László Békési, dvhh > > The Banat that Laszlo is referring to is the western Banat which was part > of > Yugoslavia and not the eastern part which was ceded to Romania after the > First World War. We need to be specific in the use of our terms to avoid > confusion on the part of others not as well versed in these matters. > > Henry Fischer > > -----Original Message----- > From: László Békési > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 AM > To: donauschwaben-villages > Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship > > Only one remark to Fran's comment: there was no Hungarian rule in the Banat > in 1941-1944. It remained under German military government after the > campaign in 1941, Hungary received Batschka, Baranya and some smaller > territories along the river Mur. > Best regards > Laszlo > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Daniela. They have a Schwowischen accent. I understand about 90 percent of their language. I never met any, but I can understand them. I believe that was their annual gathering? About 600 attendents. Alex On 2014-05-15, at 4:25 PM, Daniela wrote: > > Hi there Alex...That's the website that Lotte had put through about the Pennsylvania Dutch. And yes, that is Amish. Can you read and understand their dialect? I can. Though some of the words are spelled differently than how I would write them or say them, I can still make them out and understand what they are saying. It's amazing. I actually want to visit the Amish now because of it. I would have much fun talking with them. > > Daniela Ivkovic Showley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Leeb <al4501@shaw.ca> > To: Daniela <danielashowley@aol.com> > > Hi Daniela. > > Is this Amisch ? > > http://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/ > > Alex. > > > On 2014-05-15, at 12:34 PM, Daniela wrote: > > > The Amish are Germanic. They come from the Palatinate region which is a region > in Southwestern Germany. I was amazed at how similiar their dialect is to the > Schwowish I speak. I can understand them very well. But, I think if they have a > link with the Donauschwaben it is a small link. The Amish today are still > holding up their tradition, but I think their younger generations are looking > for a change. By tradition, the Amish live more or less by what Mother Nature > gives them. They shun technology and I believe their young generation wants that > now. But there are big similarities between the Amish and Donauschwaben because > both were agriculturally orientated and very hard working people. So from the > standpoint that they have cultivated the land and worked very hard they are like > the Donauschwaben. > > > > > > Daniela Ivkovic Showley > > >

Hi Daniela. Is this Amisch ? http://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/ Alex. On 2014-05-15, at 12:34 PM, Daniela wrote: > The Amish are Germanic. They come from the Palatinate region which is a region in Southwestern Germany. I was amazed at how similiar their dialect is to the Schwowish I speak. I can understand them very well. But, I think if they have a link with the Donauschwaben it is a small link. The Amish today are still holding up their tradition, but I think their younger generations are looking for a change. By tradition, the Amish live more or less by what Mother Nature gives them. They shun technology and I believe their young generation wants that now. But there are big similarities between the Amish and Donauschwaben because both were agriculturally orientated and very hard working people. So from the standpoint that they have cultivated the land and worked very hard they are like the Donauschwaben. > > > Daniela Ivkovic Showley > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rita Schiwanowitsch <schiwanore@msn.com> > > > Hi Lotte, > I was watching a show on television about the Penn Dutch people one day. They > would occasionally film the people in the sho speaking their language. Yes, I > agree it is similar to Schwowisch. Although I did not understand every word > they said, I could understand enough to get the gist of what they were saying. > My mother, who was born near Belgrade, has always wanted to visit these people. > She has read that they live the way her people did. One day I hope to fulfill > her wish. > Rita > >> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 08:37:15 -0400 >> From: suervl@roadrunner.com > >> >> Lotte- >> >> I don't think you're off your rocker. There were thousands of Palantines who > came to Philadelphia in the early-mid 1700's. One of them was my husband's 5th > great grandfather -Jacob Enckisch - somewhere along the line his name was > Anglo-sized to Anguish. He along with many other Palantine families, later > settled in New York's Mohawk Valley. >> >> Sue > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello all, Could anyone of you tell me if he/she has the Neu Arad Family Book? I'm looking for a MICHEL, Philipp born around 1763. Thank you in advance. Tina Michel

Hi Lotte, Indeed, Philadelphia Dutch is close to the Schwowisch dialekt. It's actually also close to some of the Alsatian dialekts and Swiss Alemanic (the Amish folks originate from Switzerland and Alsace which they left in big number to live in the Netherlands and Amerika!). Also interesting to see is that in their dialekt, the PD and Amish pronounce the word ''Deutsch'' as ''Düstch'' (easy to transform into ''Dutch'' for an anglophone!). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish Have a great day! Tina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lotte Devlin" <lielo816@aol.com> To: <donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 8:47 PM Subject: [DVHH] Pennsylvania Dutch and Donauschwaben > > All, > I grew up in the Philadelphia area, so often saw/heard Pennsylvania Dutch > folks who had come to Philly for different reasons. It always struck me > that Penn Deitsch had many similarities to Schwowisch. > > I thought that I had read somewhere that the PD immigrated to America > about the same time our DS ancestors traveled south to colonize the > frontier. Anyone else ever hear that? > > I found this interesting link to the PD newspaper, which is still > operational today. Its name "HIEWWE WIE DRIWWE" means "over here as over > there." Those who can read Schwowisch might find this interesting, too. > While I'm sure the PD language developed on its own once it was > transported to USA, one can definitely see some similarities to > Schwowisch. Whatya think? > > You won't hurt my feelings if you think I'm off my rocker! Enjoy! > > Lotte > > http://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ----- > Aucun virus trouve dans ce message. > Analyse effectuee par AVG - www.avg.fr > Version: 2013.0.3469 / Base de donnees virale: 3722/7495 - Date: > 14/05/2014 >

For those of you who can read Shwovish, I highly recommend a site by Helen Alba. Like the Pennsylvania Dutch site it is called “von iwerdriwer” which roughly means ‘from over there” although it literally says “from across across”. Alba gives a nice cross section of Shwovish wit and humor and everyday life. http://www.lenauheim.de/vdr.html Alba’s brand of Shwovish is almost as different from my Kerneierish (Kernei Shwovish) as Pennsylvania Dutch is. In fact since my Shwenglish is closer to Pennsylvania Dutch, I can understand the Amish much more easily. Sent from Windows Mail From: Eve Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎May‎ ‎15‎, ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎28‎ ‎AM To: Lotte Devlin Cc: dvhh Lotte, I'm inclined to agree with you, but this is simply from a tour I did when we were in Hershey, Penn. The founder (Milton S. Hershey) was PD if I'm recalling correctly (Mennonite). I got quite a kick out of the info on this tour - and remember how my mom said that was the biggest deal - getting a Hershey Choc. Bar from the American Red Cross when they were refugees in Austria.

Hello Jody, it,s so sad what the Peoble went thru ,not only in Feketitsch , i was Born in Gross Betschkerek it happen to us to. . i was in Kruschevlje from 1946 to 1947 , as a Child. with my Mother her Mother, and 2 Sister,s my Grandmother died there ,we went a loot of there Torches , we finely made it out somewhere in 1947 thru to Hungarian , then by Train to Austria ,only because we where German from the former Yugoslavia . i Wrote a Book . Kruschevlje Concentration Camp for German- Yugoslavs after World War ll , Publicist by Amazon , Therese On May 15, 2014, at 1:23 PM, Jody McKim Pharr wrote: > Treatment of the Germans in Feketitsch by the Serbs, simply titled . . . > "Documentary" > > by Mr. Jakob Göettel (Born on February 2, 1895, a building contractor, lived > in Feketitsch, in the Batschka-Topola District of Yugoslavia.) > > Translated by Brad Schwebler > > > > On the 17th of November, 1944 in the evening 8 partisans came into my house > with machine guns and ordered me to come with them. > > http://www.dvhh.org/history/1900s/treatment-doc~Goettel~Schwebler.htm > > > > Jody McKim Pharr > > DVHH Webmaster > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Amish are Germanic. They come from the Palatinate region which is a region in Southwestern Germany. I was amazed at how similiar their dialect is to the Schwowish I speak. I can understand them very well. But, I think if they have a link with the Donauschwaben it is a small link. The Amish today are still holding up their tradition, but I think their younger generations are looking for a change. By tradition, the Amish live more or less by what Mother Nature gives them. They shun technology and I believe their young generation wants that now. But there are big similarities between the Amish and Donauschwaben because both were agriculturally orientated and very hard working people. So from the standpoint that they have cultivated the land and worked very hard they are like the Donauschwaben. Daniela Ivkovic Showley -----Original Message----- From: Rita Schiwanowitsch <schiwanore@msn.com> Hi Lotte, I was watching a show on television about the Penn Dutch people one day. They would occasionally film the people in the sho speaking their language. Yes, I agree it is similar to Schwowisch. Although I did not understand every word they said, I could understand enough to get the gist of what they were saying. My mother, who was born near Belgrade, has always wanted to visit these people. She has read that they live the way her people did. One day I hope to fulfill her wish. Rita > Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 08:37:15 -0400 > From: suervl@roadrunner.com > > Lotte- > > I don't think you're off your rocker. There were thousands of Palantines who came to Philadelphia in the early-mid 1700's. One of them was my husband's 5th great grandfather -Jacob Enckisch - somewhere along the line his name was Anglo-sized to Anguish. He along with many other Palantine families, later settled in New York's Mohawk Valley. > > Sue

Treatment of the Germans in Feketitsch by the Serbs, simply titled . . . "Documentary" by Mr. Jakob Göettel (Born on February 2, 1895, a building contractor, lived in Feketitsch, in the Batschka-Topola District of Yugoslavia.) Translated by Brad Schwebler On the 17th of November, 1944 in the evening 8 partisans came into my house with machine guns and ordered me to come with them. http://www.dvhh.org/history/1900s/treatment-doc~Goettel~Schwebler.htm Jody McKim Pharr DVHH Webmaster

Still, Laszlo was correct. The only Banat in existence in 1941 - 1944 was the autonomous administrative area of Rump Serbia headed by Nedic, but in fact controlled by the Nazi German military. Under the Nazi administration the local Shwovish cultural association, headed by Josef (Sepp) Janko, had many high government positions and was a privileged minority. During the period 1941 - 1944 Hitler was still undecided about whether to include this area of the Vojvodina with the Batschka and Baranja in the area controlled by Hungary (who continued to press for control of the Banat) and this created a great deal of tension between the Hungarians and Shwoveh in this area. The new quisling state of Serbia, including the Banat in 1941 under the provisional government of the General Milan Nedic , who took over the leadership on August 29, 1941, remained in the role of a satellite state of the Axis powers . The Shwoveh belonging to the Banat area of this Serbia were under the guidance of community leader Sepp Janko and formed an autonomous " ethnic group“. Along with the scattered Shwovish settlements of Serbia they were put under the patronage and protection of the German Military Administration. For instance, the reprisal killings of Serbs during the Winter of 1941 to 1942 where 100 Serbs (initially mainly Jewish Serbs) were killed as a punishment for the death of any German Soldier applied equally to the death of any Shwobe. From the summer of 1941 on, the Shwoveh outside of the Batschka and Baranja in the former Vojvodina were administrators of many German directives. Sepp Janko (1943) writes: " The fate of the ethnic group as well as the fate of our Homeland will be decided neither by the responsible parties in Belgrade nor by us. It will be decided finally and irrevocably only by the one man whom we have confidently given our trust, and whose orders we have sworn our lifelong fidelity and whose commands we will carry out completely even if they demand self-sacrifice : Adolf Hitler. " (Dr. Sepp Janko, 1944, „Reden und Aufsaetze“, p. 72. In my collection.) Sent from Windows Mail From: Henry Fischer Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎30‎ ‎PM To: László Békési, dvhh The Banat that Laszlo is referring to is the western Banat which was part of Yugoslavia and not the eastern part which was ceded to Romania after the First World War. We need to be specific in the use of our terms to avoid confusion on the part of others not as well versed in these matters. Henry Fischer -----Original Message----- From: László Békési Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 AM To: donauschwaben-villages Subject: Re: [DVHH] German-Hungarians - Nationality vs Citizenship Only one remark to Fran's comment: there was no Hungarian rule in the Banat in 1941-1944. It remained under German military government after the campaign in 1941, Hungary received Batschka, Baranya and some smaller territories along the river Mur. Best regards Laszlo

Lotte, I'm inclined to agree with you, but this is simply from a tour I did when we were in Hershey, Penn. The founder (Milton S. Hershey) was PD if I'm recalling correctly (Mennonite). I got quite a kick out of the info on this tour - and remember how my mom said that was the biggest deal - getting a Hershey Choc. Bar from the American Red Cross when they were refugees in Austria. Eve On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Lotte Devlin <lielo816@aol.com> wrote: > > All, > I grew up in the Philadelphia area, so often saw/heard Pennsylvania Dutch > folks who had come to Philly for different reasons. It always struck me > that Penn Deitsch had many similarities to Schwowisch. > > I thought that I had read somewhere that the PD immigrated to America > about the same time our DS ancestors traveled south to colonize the > frontier. Anyone else ever hear that? > > I found this interesting link to the PD newspaper, which is still > operational today. Its name "HIEWWE WIE DRIWWE" means "over here as over > there." Those who can read Schwowisch might find this interesting, too. > While I'm sure the PD language developed on its own once it was > transported to USA, one can definitely see some similarities to Schwowisch. > Whatya think? > > You won't hurt my feelings if you think I'm off my rocker! Enjoy! > > Lotte > > http://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Syrmia Regional Coordinator http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia

The Penn Dutch were German, were they not? While in Germany a few years ago, we met a couple from Berlin on a cruise to Melk Abbey. I could not understand a word of what they said. We must have sat with them for over an hour and still I couldn't understand them. Finally there was one word and it was "spritz". Well, to me "spritz" is to spray the garden, or clothing for ironing, etc. My husband being 5th generation Canadian from Irish stock understood what he meant. The man was asking how much gasoline costs in Canada. Helga. -----Original Message----- From: Rita Schiwanowitsch Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:51 AM To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DVHH] Pennsylvania Dutch and Donauschwaben Hi Lotte, I was watching a show on television about the Penn Dutch people one day. They would occasionally film the people in the sho speaking their language. Yes, I agree it is similar to Schwowisch. Although I did not understand every word they said, I could understand enough to get the gist of what they were saying. My mother, who was born near Belgrade, has always wanted to visit these people. She has read that they live the way her people did. One day I hope to fulfill her wish. Rita > Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 08:37:15 -0400 > From: suervl@roadrunner.com > To: donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com; lielo816@aol.com > Subject: Re: [DVHH] Pennsylvania Dutch and Donauschwaben > > Lotte- > > I don't think you're off your rocker. There were thousands of Palantines > who came to Philadelphia in the early-mid 1700's. One of them was my > husband's 5th great grandfather -Jacob Enckisch - somewhere along the line > his name was Anglo-sized to Anguish. He along with many other Palantine > families, later settled in New York's Mohawk Valley. > > Sue > > ---- Lotte Devlin <lielo816@aol.com> wrote: > > > > All, > > I grew up in the Philadelphia area, so often saw/heard Pennsylvania > > Dutch folks who had come to Philly for different reasons. It always > > struck me that Penn Deitsch had many similarities to Schwowisch. > > > > I thought that I had read somewhere that the PD immigrated to America > > about the same time our DS ancestors traveled south to colonize the > > frontier. Anyone else ever hear that? > > > > I found this interesting link to the PD newspaper, which is still > > operational today. Its name "HIEWWE WIE DRIWWE" means "over here as > > over there." Those who can read Schwowisch might find this interesting, > > too. While I'm sure the PD language developed on its own once it was > > transported to USA, one can definitely see some similarities to > > Schwowisch. Whatya think? > > > > You won't hurt my feelings if you think I'm off my rocker! Enjoy! > > > > Lotte > > > > http://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message