I spent some time checking received lab results for the project. Paul's results are interesting. He shows: R1b1a2a1a1b4b P25+ M343+ M269+ M222+ M207+ M173+ SRY2627- P66- M73- M65- M37- M18- M160- M153- M126- But he also shows two different SNP tests. 1. P25 12/16/2004 2, DSNP-R1b 6/23/2006 As of 12/16/2004 he would have been listed, based on result 1, as P25 and R1b1 just like the other samples in question. He would still be listed as that today if he had not taken the DSNP test two years later. I looked at the McLaughlin sample in question (there is only one). 25105. On 4/19/2007 he shows a P25 test identical to Paul's. But he never upgraded to the DSNP test or what FTDNA later began calling the DCLADE test. This sample has not been tested for M222 or any other SNP other than P25. The same thing is true of the Doherty sample. He also only tested for P25 in 8/1/2005. He never had another SNP test or Deep Clade test. He too is still P25. At about the same time the McLaughlin sample was tested for P25 other DSNP tests were reported. Bernard Morgan of this list had one done in April 2007 and the results were reported as follows: R1b1a2a1a1b4b P25+ M343+ M269+ M222+ M207+ M173+ SRY2627- P66- M73- M65- M37- M18- M160- M153- M126- The P25 SNP results reported in the project are essentially orphans that have never been upgraded or checked for any SNP except P25. I will stand by that deduction, It could easily be verified through FTDNA should anyone desire to do so. (assuming you can find a way to ask the question). These are not examples of M222 negative samples that just happen to match the M222 STR pattern. There are some out there. Possibly more we don't know about. Perhaps even some in the project although I think the likelihood of that is extremely low. If someone would be so kind as to relieve me of any responsibility for the M222 project you could do what you wish with it. Make everyone take an SNP test. Drop all untested samples from the project. David Wilson wouldn't care. He's retired anyway. He asked me a few months ago to try and replace him. No luck yet. John