Hi Sandy, Most or all Celtic scholars give the etymology of Domhnall from Archaic Irish: doman ualos world valor / valiant / mighty So the name means something like 'world-mighty' or 'world-valiant'. Irish lost the Indo-European -os ending (Ulysses, Oddyseus, Perkunas, Deus, etc.) in the transition from Archaic Irish to Old Irish round about the 5th Century A.D. or so, leaving us with Domnall Today that's Domhnall or, with the spelling change in Irish in the last 50 years, Do/nal. Gaelic words for lord are usually flaith, triath, and tiarna. Although Domhnall was/is a popular name amongst the Ui/ Ne/ill, it was/is also used by other lineages. Hope that's helpful, Jerry Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press www.druidpress.com ________________________________ From: Sandy Paterson <alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 5:02:36 AM Subject: Re: [R-M222] Lord in Gaelic I think a better explanation is that the name domnail was derived from Lord Neill or Lord Niall and that was how the descent from Niall was indicated. I think that means that Clan Donald were originally M222, not necessarily descended from Niall, but with a close blood-line link. Somerled, whose mother was Nordic, somehow discovered or suspected that his wife (did he have more than one wife?) had been impregnated by someone of Nordic blood, flew into a rage (but a long-lasting, bitter rage), and that's why he waged war on the very people from whom his mother was descended. There's M222 in McRory. Ruadhri McDonald. Somerled's son. His real son. His Nordic sons weren't actually his, and Somerled was M222. I think I need a cold shower. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sandy Paterson Sent: 21 May 2011 08:23 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] Lord in Gaelic I wonder what the Gaelic abbreviation is for 'Lord'. In Latin, it seems that Lord (at the start of a name) is 'Domino' as in Domino Fynlao vicario de Innerkeolan In the middle of a name, it is domino as in Goffrido Johannis Lamanii domino de Innerkeylan These are from the 1431 Charter of Swene, in the Lamont Papers. I notice the Latin way is to use declensions, so Johanne Wilhelmi Eugenii. means (I think) John son of William son of Ewen. The Lamont Papers give the witnesses to the Charter as Doncano Celestini Lammanii Domino Fynlao vicario de Innerkeolan Nigello Flemyng Goffrido Johannis Lammanii domino de Innerkeylan Johanne Wilhelmi Cristini Eugenii Ferchado Johannis Cristini Lammanii, et multis aliia I see the first part of the names all start with 'o'. That could be a declension, but I wonder whether it couldn't mean something in addition to that. I'm still a little confused as to why three people who are not named Neill suddenly appear with Nigello at the start of their names. Could Nigello mean 'of the Neill line'? But back to my earlier question. Could 'dom' in Gaelic be an abbreviation for 'Domino', meaning Lord? Could 'domnail' not mean Lord Nail, or Lord Neil? Niall of the Nine hostages was (and I think we have to begin to accept that he was historical and not mythical) a powerful man. I've often wondered though why relatively few people seem to be named after him. Wouldn't virtually all of his descendants have wanted their own name to reflect that they were of his blood-line? Are the very many Domnails (excuse spelling) found in the annals not perhaps Lord Neils? Oy vay. Sandy R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Jerry Are you saying that Dominus became Domnall by around 500 A.D.? I don't want to twist your words <grin>. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Kelly Sent: 21 May 2011 15:48 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Lord in Gaelic Hi Sandy, Most or all Celtic scholars give the etymology of Domhnall from Archaic Irish: doman ualos world valor / valiant / mighty So the name means something like 'world-mighty' or 'world-valiant'. Irish lost the Indo-European -os ending (Ulysses, Oddyseus, Perkunas, Deus, etc.) in the transition from Archaic Irish to Old Irish round about the 5th Century A.D. or so, leaving us with Domnall Today that's Domhnall or, with the spelling change in Irish in the last 50 years, Do/nal. Gaelic words for lord are usually flaith, triath, and tiarna. Although Domhnall was/is a popular name amongst the Ui/ Ne/ill, it was/is also used by other lineages. Hope that's helpful, Jerry Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press www.druidpress.com ________________________________ From: Sandy Paterson <alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com> To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 5:02:36 AM Subject: Re: [R-M222] Lord in Gaelic I think a better explanation is that the name domnail was derived from Lord Neill or Lord Niall and that was how the descent from Niall was indicated. I think that means that Clan Donald were originally M222, not necessarily descended from Niall, but with a close blood-line link. Somerled, whose mother was Nordic, somehow discovered or suspected that his wife (did he have more than one wife?) had been impregnated by someone of Nordic blood, flew into a rage (but a long-lasting, bitter rage), and that's why he waged war on the very people from whom his mother was descended. There's M222 in McRory. Ruadhri McDonald. Somerled's son. His real son. His Nordic sons weren't actually his, and Somerled was M222. I think I need a cold shower. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sandy Paterson Sent: 21 May 2011 08:23 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] Lord in Gaelic I wonder what the Gaelic abbreviation is for 'Lord'. In Latin, it seems that Lord (at the start of a name) is 'Domino' as in Domino Fynlao vicario de Innerkeolan In the middle of a name, it is domino as in Goffrido Johannis Lamanii domino de Innerkeylan These are from the 1431 Charter of Swene, in the Lamont Papers. I notice the Latin way is to use declensions, so Johanne Wilhelmi Eugenii. means (I think) John son of William son of Ewen. The Lamont Papers give the witnesses to the Charter as Doncano Celestini Lammanii Domino Fynlao vicario de Innerkeolan Nigello Flemyng Goffrido Johannis Lammanii domino de Innerkeylan Johanne Wilhelmi Cristini Eugenii Ferchado Johannis Cristini Lammanii, et multis aliia I see the first part of the names all start with 'o'. That could be a declension, but I wonder whether it couldn't mean something in addition to that. I'm still a little confused as to why three people who are not named Neill suddenly appear with Nigello at the start of their names. Could Nigello mean 'of the Neill line'? But back to my earlier question. Could 'dom' in Gaelic be an abbreviation for 'Domino', meaning Lord? Could 'domnail' not mean Lord Nail, or Lord Neil? Niall of the Nine hostages was (and I think we have to begin to accept that he was historical and not mythical) a powerful man. I've often wondered though why relatively few people seem to be named after him. Wouldn't virtually all of his descendants have wanted their own name to reflect that they were of his blood-line? Are the very many Domnails (excuse spelling) found in the annals not perhaps Lord Neils? Oy vay. Sandy R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message