In a message dated 5/22/2011 5:37:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com writes: To my mind, we can accept without any doubt that Laumon was the son of Ferchar. That's clear from the Charter about the lands that the Paisley monks were granted use of. I think there's no doubt about the name Fearchar. That's a constant in the charters. But wasn't Laumon the son of Malcolm son of Fearchar? " Laumanus filius Malcolmi nepos ejusdem Duncani," who grant a charter to the monks of Paisley, of the lands of Kilmor near Lochgilp, and of the lands " quas nos et antecessores nostri apud Kilmun habuerunt." <Then, I think we can assume that Sir James Lamont was truthful in his 1661 declaration about the Gille Dubhs. The man had spent the previous 15 years either imprisoned or on the run. His life was almost ruined and I don't think could have been in the frame of mind to concoct a fancy pedigree. In any event, he claimed nothing fancy, just that he had an ancestor called Orcanus, and another one called Gille Dubh. Has anyone come up with anything solid on Orcanus? I saw lots of speculation but must confess I didn't pay much attention to it. I'm not sure about anything yet on the new transcription of the MS. 1467 but I'm not sure the name Gille Dubh really appears in that ms. I returned to the original source for this: Inveryne Charters. 2 May 1661. 796. "Declaration of the true Extraction off The M'llzegowies alias Lamont." In a document entitled as above, dated 2 May 1661, and signed by Sir James Lamont, Sir James declares that "John M'Gilligowie in Castletoune in the Brae of Mar, and Donald M'lzegowie servitour to Sir David Ogilvie, sone to the Earle of Airlie, and all the name of M'llzeguies, ar my trew native kindlie people and kinsmen." He goes on to say that they are descended from a son of one of his predecessors who was called by nickname "Gillidow, that is, the blakboy, from quhom all his posteritie war callit the sones of the Gillidow, from quhich nikname they have gotten their surnames, the quhich boy was son to Orcanus, Laird of Lamount, quha livet about the nyn hundredth yeir of oure Lord." All that tells me is that somewhere in the pedigree or ancestry of the Lamonts, if true, there should be an Orcanus who had a son nicknamed Gille dubh. He also says this was about 900 AD. Notice he says nickname. If that's true he could be known by another name in Lamont history, the same way Aodh Alainn is called Buirche. But that will get you nowhere unless you can discover who the Orcanus was. The 900 AD. date is a big puzzle. That was long before the time of Fearchar or Laumun. I know of nothing like Orcanus in the pedigree of the O'Neills. I don't doubt he's quoting some kind of tradition here. But I know of nothing to tie it into. I think you've been looking at the Gille Dubh in the new MS. 1467 transcription. But in the transcription this man's father is called Murachaidh and I don't see Orcanus in that name. The name in translation is Murchadh. I can't see any connection there. I think that name in Scottish history is mostly rendered as Murdoch although in Ireland you might see it as Murrough. In 1723 Buchanan, speaking of Lamonts, mentions a Lamont O'Neill but nothing further. "The Surname of Lamond is asserted to be descended of Lamond Oneil, a son of the Great Oneil, provincial King of North Ulster. The Chiefs of this Surname were allied with very honourable Families both in Scotland, and Ireland, as with the Families of Argyle, M'Donald, Luss, Buchanan, Okyan, Lord Dunseverin, and other Families in Ireland." That might be part of the same old clan history since Buchanan wrote shortly after 1661. Or it may have nothing to do with that. I can't think of anything in the O'Neill/McLaughlin line ca. 900 that could have turned into Orcanus. As several noted when this first came up Orc appears to be the same root as Orkney which I think I've seen as the islands of Orc. This strikes me as a personal name of some kind meant to be eponymous, ie. the islands of Orcney are so called from Orc. So far I have been unable to discover if there was a person named Orc in mythology. This is quite a stretch but I did see the name Ochtar who I think is the same as the Domhoctor of the Nennius. This comes from Nennius' version of the Irish Milesian legends in which Domhoctor led the last invasion of Ireland. In the Irish version of Nennius (Historiam Britonum) we learn that after this invasion of Ireland the descendants of Gaelion son of Ercal took possession of the islands of Orc, viz. Istoreth son of Istorinus son of Agnomen son of Agathirsus. Somehow the tracts tie in the Cruithin of Scotland to this tale stating they spread from the islands of Ork and took possession of northern Britain. But I doubt the Lamonts would have placed Orcanus at the time of the Milesian legends. John