There are a few Lamont records from Memorials of Argyllshire which might help date the Lamont pedigree in the new transcription. First the pedigree: Raiberd mac donnchaidh mhic eoin mhic gilla colaim mhic ladmainn mhic gillacolaim [altereed to gillasp(aig?] mhic ferchair mhic duinnsleibe mhic aed alainn The Lamont book do doubt contains versions of the same sources. Maybe even better ones. But this is what Memorials of Argyllshire has: In 1292, by an ordinance of King John Baliol we find T"ra Lochlani MacKilcoli MacErewar T"ra Eneg MacErewar T"ra .....Insula de Boot. That is, the lands of Laumun, son of Malcolm, son of Ferchar, the lands of Angus, son of Ferchar, the lands.... Island ob Bute (Act. Parl. Scot., Vol. I.) Note: the author treats MacErewar as MacFearchar in his analysis. In a charter dated before 1249, granted by Angus filii Donaldi in terra mea de Kentyr, among the witnesses are Farchardo filio Nigelli de Buyt and Duncano fratre suo. Also in 1292 Scots Act of Parliament We command and direct by these presents, that without any delay whatever, you cause summons of warning be served of Sir Angus son of Donald, Lawmund son of Ereghere, and Angus son of Duncan, the son of Eregere. Lamont MacFearchar and Angus son of Duncan, the son of Fearchar. 1230 - 1246 Gifts to Kilinan, Kilmore and Kilmun. Duncan, son of Ferchar, and Laumun, son of Malcolm, grandson of said Duncan...... I can't really do a genealogy chart in an email so I have to simplify it. Nigelli de Buyt 1249 Ferchar 1249, 1292 Malcolm 1230-1246 Lauman 1230-1246 This seems to fit part of the pedigree. ladmainn mhic gillacolaim [altereed to gillasp(aig?] mhic ferchair These aren't death dates; just dates in sources or charters when the names appear. Nigelli de Buyt is interesting. Neill (or Nial) of the island of Bute. It is tempting to equate this Nial with Nial guirm, Abbot of Iona, yet it of course does not fit the pedigree which has a lot of intervening names between Ferchar and Nial. If nothing else it shows it was a name used by the Lamonts. The only record recorded when Fearchar was alive was in 1249. Old or young? Who knows? But if you take that as a starting point and walk down the pedigree using 30 years as a generation you find something like this: neill guirm .i. ab ite 930 murachaidh or gilladdub 960 gillacrist 990 domnaill 1010 missing name 1040 muiredaigh 1070 connstantin 1100 flaitbertaig 1130 anradain 1160 aed alainn (ie, Buirche) 1190 Duinnshleibhe 1220 Fearchar 1250 Being of the suspicious sort I think Nigelli de Buyt is probably the Nial in this pedigree. Which would mean it's basically a fabrication. And that would mean the first reliable name in the pedigree is Fearchar. If the pedigree is a fabrication than what might that mean for the other families also linked to the same line prior to Fearchar, ie, Duinnshleibe and Anradan? It's curious no record appears of a Duinnshleibe or Anradan. They appear just prior to Fearchar in the pedigree (alive in 1249). Or can someone produce such a record? And of course the above records shows Nigelli of Buyt to be Ferchar's father, not Duinnshleibhe. John

I made it 14 generations between Laumon and the black-haired Neil, which would suggest that this Neil lived around 820 AD. I'll check. My problem though is that I cannot find an Abbot of Iona by the name of Neil 200 years either side of 820 AD. [Nigelli de Buyt is interesting. Neill (or Nial) of the island of Bute. It is tempting to equate this Nial with Nial guirm, Abbot of Iona, yet it of course does not fit the pedigree which has a lot of intervening names between Ferchar and Nial. If nothing else it shows it was a name used by the Lamonts.] Yes, Neil was used by the McPhadrick Lamonts and probably other Lamonts too. So Nigelli or Nigello is latin for Neil? So maybe I've been looking for the wrong name and should look for Nigello instead amongst the Abbots of Iona.? [And that would mean the first reliable name in the pedigree is Fearchar.] McKechnie took that view. He wasn't too fussed about any names prior to Ferchar and listed the names merely out of a sense of being 'complete'. [It's curious no record appears of a Duinnshleibe or Anradan. They appear just prior to Fearchar in the pedigree (alive in 1249). Or can someone produce such a record? And of course the above records shows Nigelli of Buyt to be Ferchar's father, not Duinnshleibhe.] I remember coming across a charter in the Lamont Papers that appears both in English and in Latin. The Latin version had the name Nigello in it. I'll find it and check what the English name was. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com Sent: 16 May 2011 01:08 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] Dating the Lamont Pedigree There are a few Lamont records from Memorials of Argyllshire which might help date the Lamont pedigree in the new transcription. First the pedigree: Raiberd mac donnchaidh mhic eoin mhic gilla colaim mhic ladmainn mhic gillacolaim [altereed to gillasp(aig?] mhic ferchair mhic duinnsleibe mhic aed alainn The Lamont book do doubt contains versions of the same sources. Maybe even better ones. But this is what Memorials of Argyllshire has: In 1292, by an ordinance of King John Baliol we find T"ra Lochlani MacKilcoli MacErewar T"ra Eneg MacErewar T"ra .....Insula de Boot. That is, the lands of Laumun, son of Malcolm, son of Ferchar, the lands of Angus, son of Ferchar, the lands.... Island ob Bute (Act. Parl. Scot., Vol. I.) Note: the author treats MacErewar as MacFearchar in his analysis. In a charter dated before 1249, granted by Angus filii Donaldi in terra mea de Kentyr, among the witnesses are Farchardo filio Nigelli de Buyt and Duncano fratre suo. Also in 1292 Scots Act of Parliament We command and direct by these presents, that without any delay whatever, you cause summons of warning be served of Sir Angus son of Donald, Lawmund son of Ereghere, and Angus son of Duncan, the son of Eregere. Lamont MacFearchar and Angus son of Duncan, the son of Fearchar. 1230 - 1246 Gifts to Kilinan, Kilmore and Kilmun. Duncan, son of Ferchar, and Laumun, son of Malcolm, grandson of said Duncan...... I can't really do a genealogy chart in an email so I have to simplify it. Nigelli de Buyt 1249 Ferchar 1249, 1292 Malcolm 1230-1246 Lauman 1230-1246 This seems to fit part of the pedigree. ladmainn mhic gillacolaim [altereed to gillasp(aig?] mhic ferchair These aren't death dates; just dates in sources or charters when the names appear. Nigelli de Buyt is interesting. Neill (or Nial) of the island of Bute. It is tempting to equate this Nial with Nial guirm, Abbot of Iona, yet it of course does not fit the pedigree which has a lot of intervening names between Ferchar and Nial. If nothing else it shows it was a name used by the Lamonts. The only record recorded when Fearchar was alive was in 1249. Old or young? Who knows? But if you take that as a starting point and walk down the pedigree using 30 years as a generation you find something like this: neill guirm .i. ab ite 930 murachaidh or gilladdub 960 gillacrist 990 domnaill 1010 missing name 1040 muiredaigh 1070 connstantin 1100 flaitbertaig 1130 anradain 1160 aed alainn (ie, Buirche) 1190 Duinnshleibhe 1220 Fearchar 1250 Being of the suspicious sort I think Nigelli de Buyt is probably the Nial in this pedigree. Which would mean it's basically a fabrication. And that would mean the first reliable name in the pedigree is Fearchar. If the pedigree is a fabrication than what might that mean for the other families also linked to the same line prior to Fearchar, ie, Duinnshleibe and Anradan? It's curious no record appears of a Duinnshleibe or Anradan. They appear just prior to Fearchar in the pedigree (alive in 1249). Or can someone produce such a record? And of course the above records shows Nigelli of Buyt to be Ferchar's father, not Duinnshleibhe. John R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message