In a message dated 5/24/2011 6:51:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com writes: Doesn't seem likely to me, but the name and dates are close. He would have to have left Ireland for Alba for this to be true. I think you need to find something with the "r" sound for a possibility. That's why I thought of Erc or Eirc. The name O'Cainus also makes little sense to me. Surnames weren't used prior to about 950 in Ireland. A man was described in terms of his father (mac) or grandfather (ua). You can see the development of fixed Irish surnames in the annals. Domhnall 'of Armagh', the High king of Ireland, was called Domhnall Ua Neill, not a surname but a reference to his grandfather, Nial glundubh. But his descendants were from then on called Ua Neill (now a surname). John

I think a clue may lie in considering the sheer vastness of the lands the Lamonts had prior to the backing of Bailiol against the Bruce. It was virtually a kingdom, and a large one at that. But they have never claimed royal descent. I think Laumon and a son both married princesses, but there's no claim of descent from royalty down a male line as far as I know. So I think it is most likely to have come about through a male ancestor who was very senior in ecclesiastical rank. Beyond that, I'm confident that there is a link to Cain. Firstly, my DNA is Cain M222 lookalike but I match a Lamont 66/67. Secondly, the word Cain actually means Law as in Cain of Adomnain = Law of Adomnan Cain/McCain Lagman/Ladhmann/Lauman/Lamont I must say I'm amused that McKechnie was quick to dismiss Orcanus as fantasy, but he was very slow at trying to explain how the Lamonts ended up with a vastness of land that could indeed be described as fantastic in the modern day sense of the word. But I take your point about the use of O'. -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com Sent: 24 May 2011 23:02 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] Orcanus In a message dated 5/24/2011 6:51:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alexanderpatterson@btinternet.com writes: Doesn't seem likely to me, but the name and dates are close. He would have to have left Ireland for Alba for this to be true.