I have a half-brother who is about twice my size. Because of his size I call him Fullbro and he calls me Harfa. He is less than half my age, so we don't know each other as well as brothers normally know each other. I've been trying to contact him ever since you posted the link to MS 1467, on a hunch. Eventually, I called my step-mother this morning, who I call Sis because she's about my age. Sis tells me Fulbro is something of an expert in Nodanna. Not a bad hunch. Anyway, it seems Fullbro normally calls Sis of a Sunday evening so I may be in luck. I remember him telling me some years back that a Gaelic poet who was from Ireland but who had moved to Scotland was tutoring him in something. So he's quite well connected and may be able to help. Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan Sent: 22 May 2011 15:06 To: dna-r1b1c7 Subject: Re: [R-M222] Did Gaelic scribes take shorthand? (Nodanna) > [How about after "Ic Doneill" on line 27 the entry "Ic Meilaert" ? Further reading I correct myself to "Ic Meilacr" (I cannot tell if a "t" runs into the curve of the "r"), so I am closer to original transcription of "gillacrist". I am no experted at reading Gaelic manuscripts, however I still struggling to see "gillacrist". After the Mhic in the middle of line 27, there seems to be an M followed by what looks like somewhat like an "e". This conflict with what I would have expected to have seen as Gillacrist. (Maybe what I see as a possible "t" at the end is just a shorthand line above the "r".) What is clear is the MS1467 pedigree for the MacLadhmainn does match any other pedigrees for the descendants of Anrathan. I highlight the differences below in bold: Ballymote: Mc. Suibne Conachtaigh Aedha alaind renab- burrci m. Andrathan m. Aeda athloman cacomraig- Clann Neill m. Flaithbertaig i trosdan m. Muircertaigh m. Domnaill m. Muircertaig na .c.c. m. Neill glunduibh. MS1467: MacLadhmainn Aed alainn .i. buirce mhic Anradin mhic Flaitbertaig mhic Connstan mhic Muiredhagh ----?---- mhic Domnaill mhic Gillacrist mhic Murachaidh .i. Gilladub mhic Neil Guirm .i. abite I can see clearly a symbol of mhic after Domnaill (line 27) and most likely after Flaitbertaig (line 25); these generations are missing from all other pedigrees. While the other pedigrees include Aeda athloman who does not appear in the MS1467 pedigrees (noticably missing from the MacLadhmain or MacEoghain pedigrees (on the first folio)). The way the mhic Connstan and mhic Gillacrist are made as double entries on the lines, does make the pedigree similar to Irish manuscript versions. Yet the undoubtably additional generation with mhic "Gillacrist" and the missing generation of Aeda athloman makes MS1467 unlike any other pedigree of the Scottish families. Why the difference? R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message