[That struck me as odd for two reasons. The first is that Connstantine is a name seldom encountered in Gaelic pedigrees. In fact I think the only place I've ever seen it is in the old Welsh pedigrees.] I found him in Chronicles of the Picts, Chronicles of the Scots, and Other Early Memorials of Scottish History page cxlv "He is also apparently meant by the Kenneth, son of Malcolm, who slew Constantin..." I then searched for Constantin and the name appears many times, but it could be the same person. http://www.archive.org/stream/chroniclespicts00skengoog#page/n153/mode/1up/s earch/Gille+Dubh Sandy -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com Sent: 17 May 2011 23:57 To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com; DNA-R1B1C7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] MS. 1467 If anyone is wondering I haven't heard back yet from the authors of the new transcription of MS. 1467. Here's a part of what the author said: "It could easily be 'glundubh'. I think perhaps we should change our reading here. To be honest it could be almost anything, and this is where the problem arises. We were trying to read the manuscript as it was, and not be influenced in advance by what was in other manuscripts. But here, where it is so unclear, I think you are right and it should be 'glundubh'." This was intended for someone else, not me. I think they got confused on who said what. But of course it can only refer to Nial glundubh. And the only place that name is likely to appear in the MS. 1467 is in the pedigree of the Lamonts. And the only place in the Lamont pedigree that is likely to appear is in place of Neill guirm, Abbot of Iona. At first I noticed no possible connection between their new transcription and the normal Anradan pedigree from other sources too numerous to mention. But I was struck by one phrase - Flaitbertach mhic Connstantine That struck me as odd for two reasons. The first is that Connstantine is a name seldom encountered in Gaelic pedigrees. In fact I think the only place I've ever seen it is in the old Welsh pedigrees. Secondy, it bears a superficial resemblence to the Flaitbertach an trostain of the traditional Lamont pedigrees in Irish MS. If you've looked at the graphic of the pedigree online you'll understand why Skene butchered it so badly and why the current editors admit to having so much trouble reading it. I can't make heads or tails of it myself. So I took the names from the traditional Lamont pedigree and lined them up with the new reading from the online transcription and was surprised to find they basically matched up at least in terms of generations. A few names were the same in each version. In fact only one name is missing completely - Aodh Athlaman. I'll re-post this from yesterday. Anradan--------------------------------Anradan Aedha athlamhain--------------- ? Flaithbertaigh an trostain-----Flaitbertag mc Constantine? Muircertaigh mhidhigh----------Muirdaigh Domhnaill arda macha ---------Domnaill mic Gillacrist Muircertaigh na ccocal ccroicenn--------Murachaidh ie Gilladubh Nial glundubh--------------------------------Nial guirm Notice that the names line up almost perfectly. Except Muirchertaigh is rendered Muirdaigh and Murachaidh in different spots. That is a very easy mistake to make with handwritten abbreviated names in Irish script and remember, we're dealing with a very poor copy to begin with. So I think we're just going to end up with another version of the traditional Anradan kindred pedigree, which would make perfect sense and would clear up a lot of the ambiguities in the text from Skene's time. That alone would make the new editor's efforts worthwhile even if they didn't get it quite right themselves. All any of us want is accuracy. Just as an example look at the authors "how to" page. You can see an abbreviation commonly used for Murchadh. That McH can be difficult to distinguish from other similar names especially in a poor quality manuscript. I've looked at the MacSweeney pedigree in the Book of Ballymote and all I see are a series of squiggles because just about every name in the pedigree is abbreviated as above.. I'm amazed anyone can decipher this stuff. My hat is off to them. I need a roadmap and a GPS to navigate these pedigrees. But at this point I do not know for sure what their opinion is and what they intend to do next if anything. If I hear anything I'll pass it along. John R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message