My email client is acting up...and I think there is also an operator error -- in other words I made a gaff. There is an erroneous reply to address. PLEASE MAKE CERTAIN THAT YOU NOTE MY ADDRESS ABOVE and don't reply to my realtor. ------------------------------- I am about to post the new work sheet; however thought I'd give individuals the opportunity to review prior to doing so. Extra sets of eyes always a good thing in the event of even a slight error or omission. Any that desire to review it PLEASE EMAIL ME PRIVATELY. Here is a summary report of the work, separated by headers. DF97: 18 surnames 33 results (1 being used as a proxy for another) 67Marks 1550±175 ybd w/out Coleman 400 CE 37Marks 1650±200 ybd w/Coleman 300 CE S668 2 surnames (Allison and McCollum) 2 results 67Marks 750±295 ybd 1200 CE S673 Boath…no strs Dunbar one only haplotype, hence no TMRCA DF85 8 surnames 9 results 67Marks 1525±260 ybd 425 CE 37Marks 2000±330 ybd 50BCE DF104 (S661) McKenzie (neg 1265, df85) FTDNA DF104 DF105/S659 - S660/DF109 27 surnames 30 results 67M 1450±180 ybd 500 CE 111M 1425±150ybd same To deflect the comment about how can DF97 and DF85 be showing a higher median age than S660, take note that TMRCA is a statistical function and the numbers are withing the margins of one another DF97: 1550±175 ybd DF85: 1525±260 ybd S660: 1450±180 ybd AND in actuality, there is only a 4 generation difference with an average deviation of about 200 years for the median value. DF97 is a very diverse group within their haplotypes, and they remain nearly bi-modal. This bi-modality could be of a geographical consideration, Once the lineages there in are analyzed we may have a better flavor for it. S603 5 surnames 6 results 67Marks 1550±285 ybd 400 CE Same comment as above, including the bi-modality bit. S590 Byrne Chromo2 S590 S595 2 surnames 4 results 750±300 ybd 1200 CE S588 3 surnames (one testing S603) 3 results 1500±370 ybd 450 CE S588 and DF85 are apparently brothers as indicated in phylogeny DF85: 1525±260 ybd If these fellows remain terminal for S588, these numbers are supportive of the two splitting away from S660 at about the same time. S7049 McGonnigil FGC S7049 F3952 2 surnames 2 results 1100±365 ybd 850 CE S7814 3 surnames 3 results 1100±365 ybd 850 CE F1265 3 surnames 6 results 585±150 ybd 1450 CE Surnames involved may be linked by Clan and geography MacDonald, MacLennan, and McKenzie Basic TMRCA MacDonald/MacLennan: 315 ybd - 1635 CE - there is a good size standard deviation that I did not calculate MacDonald and McKenzie: 470 ybd -1480 CE - same remark MacLennan and McKenzie: 470 ybd -1480 CE - same remark S7073 Group in TOTAL 13 surnames 14 results 1425±210 ybd 525 CE of this group FGC4077/4078: 1325±340 ybd 625 CE FGC 4087: 1200±175 ybd 750 CE S7073 Beirne (K) Gillespie 1550±440 ybd 400 CE Which is consistent and within the margin with the group at large. This could suggest that FGC 4077/4078 and FGC4087 are equivalent Thus far all of the FGC4077/78 group that has tested for FGC4087 have been found positive to the best of my knowledge. If that isn't correct, please suggest a negative result. The average between the 2 of the S7073 remaining and the group at large is about 1490±325 ybd Since the standard deviation for Beirne and Gillespie is at over 28% -- that is a confidence level of about 72% and the confidence level for the group at large is 85%. S567 and S568 2 surnames 2 results one in each 1 haplotype belonging to Lamont PF1169 5 surnames 5 results 4 haplotypes 1200±300 ybd 750 CE Hope you find this helpful. Susan Hedeen There is an erroneous reply to address in my previous post. How it got there has to be operator (in other words - my) error. please note my email address if replying I am about to post the new work sheet; however thought I'd give individuals the opportunity to review prior to doing so. Extra sets of eyes always a good thing in the event of even a slight error or omission. Any that desire to review it PLEASE EMAIL ME PRIVATELY. Here is a summary report of the work, separated by headers. DF97: 18 surnames 33 results (1 being used as a proxy for another) 67Marks 1550±175 ybd w/out Coleman 400 CE 37Marks 1650±200 ybd w/Coleman 300 CE S668 2 surnames (Allison and McCollum) 2 results 67Marks 750±295 ybd 1200 CE S673 Boath…no strs Dunbar one only haplotype, hence no TMRCA DF85 8 surnames 9 results 67Marks 1525±260 ybd 425 CE 37Marks 2000±330 ybd 50BCE DF104 (S661) McKenzie (neg 1265, df85) FTDNA DF104 DF105/S659 - S660/DF109 27 surnames 30 results 67M 1450±180 ybd 500 CE 111M 1425±150ybd same To deflect the comment about how can DF97 and DF85 be showing a higher median age than S660, take note that TMRCA is a statistical function and the numbers are withing the margins of one another DF97: 1550±175 ybd DF85: 1525±260 ybd S660: 1450±180 ybd AND in actuality, there is only a 4 generation difference with an average deviation of about 200 years for the median value. DF97 is a very diverse group within their haplotypes, and they remain nearly bi-modal. This bi-modality could be of a geographical consideration, Once the lineages there in are analyzed we may have a better flavor for it. S603 5 surnames 6 results 67Marks 1550±285 ybd 400 CE Same comment as above, including the bi-modality bit. S590 Byrne Chromo2 S590 S595 2 surnames 4 results 750±300 ybd 1200 CE S588 3 surnames (one testing S603) 3 results 1500±370 ybd 450 CE S588 and DF85 are apparently brothers as indicated in phylogeny DF85: 1525±260 ybd If these fellows remain terminal for S588, these numbers are supportive of the two splitting away from S660 at about the same time. S7049 McGonnigil FGC S7049 F3952 2 surnames 2 results 1100±365 ybd 850 CE S7814 3 surnames 3 results 1100±365 ybd 850 CE F1265 3 surnames 6 results 585±150 ybd 1450 CE Surnames involved may be linked by Clan and geography MacDonald, MacLennan, and McKenzie Basic TMRCA MacDonald/MacLennan: 315 ybd - 1635 CE - there is a good size standard deviation that I did not calculate MacDonald and McKenzie: 470 ybd -1480 CE - same remark MacLennan and McKenzie: 470 ybd -1480 CE - same remark S7073 Group in TOTAL 13 surnames 14 results 1425±210 ybd 525 CE of this group FGC4077/4078: 1325±340 ybd 625 CE FGC 4087: 1200±175 ybd 750 CE S7073 Beirne (K) Gillespie 1550±440 ybd 400 CE Which is consistent and within the margin with the group at large. This could suggest that FGC 4077/4078 and FGC4087 are equivalent Thus far all of the FGC4077/78 group that has tested for FGC4087 have been found positive to the best of my knowledge. If that isn't correct, please suggest a negative result. The average between the 2 of the S7073 remaining and the group at large is about 1490±325 ybd Since the standard deviation for Beirne and Gillespie is at over 28% -- that is a confidence level of about 72% and the confidence level for the group at large is 85%. S567 and S568 2 surnames 2 results one in each 1 haplotype belonging to Lamont PF1169 5 surnames 5 results 4 haplotypes 1200±300 ybd 750 CE Hope you find this helpful. Susan Hedeen