In my Inbox this morning I had this question from one of our M222 guys: I was looking at the subgroups within the > M222 group and noticed I (among a couple others) are in the S675/DF85- > subgroup. Would it make more sense to place us in the S660+ subgroup? My response: Good question................. Unless you have tested for S660/S659 (DF105) on a third party test............... ............we do not know if you are positive or negative for same. Very confusing even to me still. The initial test by FTDNA for your yDNA only included down to M222........in theory.......theory being that is as far as was reported by FTDNA at that time. Now FTDNA may (does) know a lot more than they tell us and so the guarantee more or less is to test you through a certain point at a certain given time which until a few months ago was only down to M222 positive for our SNP M222. This time a year ago folks who were M222 positive had no where to go and nothing else to test as far as yDNA was concerned. Now, that does not mean that some scientists did not know what was downstream of M222. It just means that FTDNA did not offer a test. Nor did other companies that I know about. But, then last summer or even a year or so earlier we began to hear about a few folks that were testing was it called, for instance, Full Genome and Dr Jim Wilson of BritainsDNA et al were doing sequencing on advanced yDNA testing..............ie: new territory on the yDNA frontier. So, I see where you have bought the single SNP DF85 and tested negative but I do not see where you have tested any other SNP beyond your initial first yDNA tests. I would not know about THIRD PARTY TESTING unless you told me or Iain Kennedy or Susan Hedeen or someone posted same and I happen to see it. FTDNA only posts what their own labs do and that is all I have access to as an FTDNA admin. At this time it is highly suggested you ask Iain Kennedy or Susan Hedeen or David Wilson or post a query to the R1b1c7 before buying single SNPs for testing. This is because there is a disconnect between the "citizen science" and the FTDNA company. I believe I will post this to the forum as I know it is very difficult for most newcomers. Please let me (us-or the forum) know if I haven't "gotten" it for you. Linda