I was thinking something similar today, especially as a Kennedy I have been testing at YSEQ has now been confirmed as S660+ (S588- DF85-). It's almost like S660* is the new M222, if we allow for some surname stacking by the McKees and McConns down in DF97. Walter's suggestion assumes you can predict branch membership by STRs and that is still a big question mark to me. One of my closest matches has just come back as FGC4077- to my surprise. It will be fascinating to monitor how close our nearest 'failed' matches get. Didn't someone tot up the numbers from the anonymous Chromo2 file, I don't have it to hand right now. What was the proportion of the total that was S660*.? That might be a better random sampling. Also, following Walter's suggestion, it is time for another mass network diagram for the project perhaps, to compare the groupings with and without the accompanying SNP confirmations. Again this can throw up surprises. I tend to do externally rooted ones using someone either from Z2961 or if appropriate, another M222 branch. Increasingly I find my external root is plotted as a closer relative than some of the folks in the branch I'm examining. Certainly I know from memory that both S660 and FGC4077 have members as far apart as any pair of people in the overall project. Iain > From: dcw1000@live.com > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 10:17:37 -0700 > Subject: [R-M222] Some idle numerical observations > > I don't think it is news to anyone that S660/DF109 is the monster sub-branch > within M222, but I was just idly pushing some numbers around on a warm > weekend morning and realized that it may be an even larger group than I had > calculated the last time I went through this exercise. Perhaps others would > be interested in these stats. > > > > Iain Kennedy's tree now has 117 individuals in it, if I counted them > correctly. (I did this hastily, so I may be off by one or two.) > > > > Of these, the S568 group (now including PF1169) contains 7 individuals. > > > > The FGC4077 group (which has yet to produce a major subhaplogroup to divide > its members) contains 15 individuals. > > > > The 97 others are all located in S660. > > > > In short, about five-sixths of M222 individuals are in S660; the other > one-sixth are split between the two smaller groups, with FGC4077 twice the > size of S568. > > > > Within S660, if you exclude the major S588 and DF85 branches, just under > one-fourth are S660* and members of the recently identified small branches. > The S588 population makes up a little over one-fourth and the DF85 branch > about one half of the entire S660 group. Of that large latter branch, DF97 > is the largest subordinate classification. With 32 members it makes up > two-thirds of the DF85 branch by itself and amounts to more than one-fourth > of the entire M222 population. DF97 may be that large because of statistical > oversampling of some surnames and kindred groups, so these percentages may > change a bit as time goes by. > > > > David Wilson > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message