Thanks, Susan. I do not fit into this particular off-modal category, but am very interested in this approach.If anyone else has ideas about interesting R-M222 off-modal markers to explore, please let me know.I am 7 off-modal for 67 markers and tested + for the SNP. Bob Quinn Bob Quinn President&CEO Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable 27 Langton Lane Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 T:610-331-4920 e-mail:raaq@live.com Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:22:51 -0400 > From: chantillycarpets@earthlink.net > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com; dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com > Subject: [R-M222] R-M222 off modal matches > > One of the off modal markers which has fascinated me is DYS 392 = 15. > There are several with in M222. > > In review of the M222 project there are 5 Davidson (one w/spelling > Davisson), 2 Clarkson,, a Backer, Byrnes, Crighton, Dougherty, > Fergusson, McClelland, 2 McWhorer, Moore, Patterson, 2 Sizemore. 1 > McConnaughey kit 197231 not listed in the the project page and I believe > there are others as well on this list. > > Fair mix of Irish/Scottish surnames which may or may not be indicative > of anything. I haven't done a good look to see which other markers they > share, but since they all are M222 there is possibly some other off > modal markers. > > There is connection by marriage on paper between this McC and Davidson; > however this connection is that one was a wife (surname Davidson) to > McC and his sister married the wife's brother and this is probably all > just circumstantial and not relevant, but interesting. > > Unlike the others with dys 392 = 15, the McC has a 28 value at 389-2 > which could indicate a rare double mutation, and 389-2 is considered > faster mutating than 392, thus may or may not be of any significance, > also interesting though. > > DYS at 15, however might be an interesting look, since this marker > rarely mutates; it is among the slowest to mutate of all; and in fact > early on during the beginning of DNA testing it was considered to not > mutate at all until the data increased and they noted that indeed it did > but rarely based on the data collected thus far. > > Why look at this marker with-in M222? Well, I did a cursory look in Y > search and other projects, and it seems the majority with-in R1b who > carry this value also fall in M222 either SNP or unambiguous. > > 2ndly this marker appears to mutate up rather than down, based on as > assumptive look at what few R1b haplotype samples there are published > for human remains dug up during archeological investigations. 389-2 > appears by that same look to mutate down. > > Any comment and/or interest in pursuing this line of inquiry??? Susan > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Bob, I think that it would be a good look no matter what the particular OM markers are, and I would be willing to look in collaboration with other even if their OM marker values are not the same as the particular ones I'm really interested in. I know that some have investigated this some with some of their matches GD matches, but I don't know how many have scoured beyond the matches which have turned up with-in their project pages. I'm not certain either the over all consensus on potential value as I think some believe the randomness among mutations is so dicey, but that may be an educated assumption rather than reality if we are looking with in the same clade. Susan On 10/16/2011 2:43 PM, Bob Quinn wrote: > Thanks, Susan. I do not fit into this particular off-modal category, > but am very interested in this approach. > If anyone else has ideas about interesting R-M222 off-modal markers to > explore, please let me know. > I am 7 off-modal for 67 markers and tested + for the SNP. > > Bob Quinn > > Bob Quinn > President&CEO > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable > 27 Langton Lane > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 > T:610-331-4920 > e-mail:raaq@live.com <mailto:raaq@live.com> > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:22:51 -0400 > > From: chantillycarpets@earthlink.net > > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com; dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [R-M222] R-M222 off modal matches > > > > One of the off modal markers which has fascinated me is DYS 392 = 15. > > There are several with in M222. > > > > In review of the M222 project there are 5 Davidson (one w/spelling > > Davisson), 2 Clarkson,, a Backer, Byrnes, Crighton, Dougherty, > > Fergusson, McClelland, 2 McWhorer, Moore, Patterson, 2 Sizemore. 1 > > McConnaughey kit 197231 not listed in the the project page and I > believe > > there are others as well on this list. > > > > Fair mix of Irish/Scottish surnames which may or may not be indicative > > of anything. I haven't done a good look to see which other markers they > > share, but since they all are M222 there is possibly some other off > > modal markers. > > > > There is connection by marriage on paper between this McC and Davidson; > > however this connection is that one was a wife (surname Davidson) to > > McC and his sister married the wife's brother and this is probably all > > just circumstantial and not relevant, but interesting. > > > > Unlike the others with dys 392 = 15, the McC has a 28 value at 389-2 > > which could indicate a rare double mutation, and 389-2 is considered > > faster mutating than 392, thus may or may not be of any significance, > > also interesting though. > > > > DYS at 15, however might be an interesting look, since this marker > > rarely mutates; it is among the slowest to mutate of all; and in fact > > early on during the beginning of DNA testing it was considered to not > > mutate at all until the data increased and they noted that indeed it > did > > but rarely based on the data collected thus far. > > > > Why look at this marker with-in M222? Well, I did a cursory look in Y > > search and other projects, and it seems the majority with-in R1b who > > carry this value also fall in M222 either SNP or unambiguous. > > > > 2ndly this marker appears to mutate up rather than down, based on as > > assumptive look at what few R1b haplotype samples there are published > > for human remains dug up during archeological investigations. 389-2 > > appears by that same look to mutate down. > > > > Any comment and/or interest in pursuing this line of inquiry??? Susan > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hey, Susan. The groundswell of non-response should tell us something. If anyone has any ideas about which of the modal values for the R-M222 haplotype , and deviation from such, might tell us the most, I'd like to hear that. Also, I am totally clueless on what time frames certain markers might point toward, so any feeling for that would be appreciated, if that is a (sorta) known area. Regards, Bob Bob Quinn President&CEO Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable 27 Langton Lane Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 T:610-331-4920 e-mail:raaq@live.com Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:55:44 -0400 From: chantillycarpets@earthlink.net To: raaq@live.com CC: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com; dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [R-M222] R-M222 off modal matches Hi, Bob, I think that it would be a good look no matter what the particular OM markers are, and I would be willing to look in collaboration with other even if their OM marker values are not the same as the particular ones I'm really interested in. I know that some have investigated this some with some of their matches GD matches, but I don't know how many have scoured beyond the matches which have turned up with-in their project pages. I'm not certain either the over all consensus on potential value as I think some believe the randomness among mutations is so dicey, but that may be an educated assumption rather than reality if we are looking with in the same clade. Susan On 10/16/2011 2:43 PM, Bob Quinn wrote: Thanks, Susan. I do not fit into this particular off-modal category, but am very interested in this approach. If anyone else has ideas about interesting R-M222 off-modal markers to explore, please let me know. I am 7 off-modal for 67 markers and tested + for the SNP. Bob Quinn Bob Quinn President&CEO Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable 27 Langton Lane Newtown Square, Pa, 19073 T:610-331-4920 e-mail:raaq@live.com Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals > Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:22:51 -0400 > From: chantillycarpets@earthlink.net > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com; dna-r1b1c7-request@rootsweb.com > Subject: [R-M222] R-M222 off modal matches > > One of the off modal markers which has fascinated me is DYS 392 = 15. > There are several with in M222. > > In review of the M222 project there are 5 Davidson (one w/spelling > Davisson), 2 Clarkson,, a Backer, Byrnes, Crighton, Dougherty, > Fergusson, McClelland, 2 McWhorer, Moore, Patterson, 2 Sizemore. 1 > McConnaughey kit 197231 not listed in the the project page and I believe > there are others as well on this list. > > Fair mix of Irish/Scottish surnames which may or may not be indicative > of anything. I haven't done a good look to see which other markers they > share, but since they all are M222 there is possibly some other off > modal markers. > > There is connection by marriage on paper between this McC and Davidson; > however this connection is that one was a wife (surname Davidson) to > McC and his sister married the wife's brother and this is probably all > just circumstantial and not relevant, but interesting. > > Unlike the others with dys 392 = 15, the McC has a 28 value at 389-2 > which could indicate a rare double mutation, and 389-2 is considered > faster mutating than 392, thus may or may not be of any significance, > also interesting though. > > DYS at 15, however might be an interesting look, since this marker > rarely mutates; it is among the slowest to mutate of all; and in fact > early on during the beginning of DNA testing it was considered to not > mutate at all until the data increased and they noted that indeed it did > but rarely based on the data collected thus far. > > Why look at this marker with-in M222? Well, I did a cursory look in Y > search and other projects, and it seems the majority with-in R1b who > carry this value also fall in M222 either SNP or unambiguous. > > 2ndly this marker appears to mutate up rather than down, based on as > assumptive look at what few R1b haplotype samples there are published > for human remains dug up during archeological investigations. 389-2 > appears by that same look to mutate down. > > Any comment and/or interest in pursuing this line of inquiry??? Susan > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message