It's of my opinion that the best clarifications for some of this looking is through the lineages. What I've been looking at w/df85/97 are some tentative looks for some idea of snp age; however to do justice with any of it, the lineages within a SNP category should be considered. To that end my intent is to start a data base of the lineages that fall in the different SNP categories. I need help with this needless to say as going to each project and culling out those is over bearing in time consumption; hence if anyone interested in contributing to this cause? This is how I suggest we start, and the effort will get expanded. 1. Those testing positive for any down stream SNP, collect the haplotypes of your surname consistent in haplotype and/or close matches from your project pages on an exel spread sheet. I am happy to furnish you with the exel format that I use with instructions of how to enter the haplotypes into the spread sheet (contact me privately and I will send to you via attachment a blank sheet with the columns labeled already--all is necessary is for the blanks to be filled in and I will give you instructions as how to do that). 2. Those who have tested negative for df85: These lineages are important and they will fall in a group -- some have ordered further testing through Chromo2; hence we should get a better idea of the groupings once the results information begins to flow. (I have in possession some surname lineages already, but what I have is not comprehensive for the M222 project general) 3. If you do not mind, I will also share these lineages in exel with others such as Iain, Bernard, Sandy, Alan, David McL. Linda McK, and anyone other who would like to discuss the lineages/groups in assessment and perhaps we can also be of assistance with some testing recommendations for 1 or more within. I would also like to involve Mark Jost of L21. Sandy, David, Mark and I all use different types of analyses methods and it would be good to compare the different information coming out of the different models. 4. With R-M222, I have a bias based on experience for the 67 marker haplotypes as they generally yield the best information for analysis plus the 111 marker haplotypes can be spotty in the projects; however I will also be appreciative if there are 111 marker haplotypes in your lineage/group results. If your lineage results feature mostly 37 marker haplotypes, reviewing those is helpful but I probably will not use them for any calculations beyond perhaps a particular lineage review. Susan Hedeen

Susan, I think that is a good idea, and you can use my data. For lineages, what do you consider as 'authoritative' sources? Would Irish Names and Surnames by Rev. Patrick Woulfe, and Leabhar na nGenealach be considered something that you'd use to capture the lineage? Lachtna, the founder of the O'Lachtna sept was most likely brothers to Amhlaoibh Mór mac Fir Bhisigh and Giolla Pádraig mac Fir Bhisigh, so I am assuming that the common ancestor would be Fear Bhisigh mac Domhnaill Óig. I am at 67 markers (Kit No: 218512) and sufficient far from any other matches (closest is a Clark - private) at 5 steps. FTDNA is having a sale, so I am not sure if 111 marker test would be useful, or something else. thanks, John On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Susan Hedeen < [email protected]> wrote: > It's of my opinion that the best clarifications for some of this looking > is through the lineages. What I've been looking at w/df85/97 are some > tentative looks for some idea of snp age; however to do justice with any > of it, the lineages within a SNP category should be considered. > > To that end my intent is to start a data base of the lineages that fall > in the different SNP categories. I need help with this needless to say > as going to each project and culling out those is over bearing in time > consumption; hence if anyone interested in contributing to this cause? > > This is how I suggest we start, and the effort will get expanded. > > 1. Those testing positive for any down stream SNP, collect the > haplotypes of your surname consistent in haplotype and/or close matches > from your project pages on an exel spread sheet. I am happy to furnish > you with the exel format that I use with instructions of how to enter > the haplotypes into the spread sheet (contact me privately and I will > send to you via attachment a blank sheet with the columns labeled > already--all is necessary is for the blanks to be filled in and I will > give you instructions as how to do that). > > 2. Those who have tested negative for df85: These lineages are > important and they will fall in a group -- some have ordered further > testing through Chromo2; hence we should get a better idea of the > groupings once the results information begins to flow. > > (I have in possession some surname lineages already, but what I have is > not comprehensive for the M222 project general) > > 3. If you do not mind, I will also share these lineages in exel with > others such as Iain, Bernard, Sandy, Alan, David McL. Linda McK, and > anyone other who would like to discuss the lineages/groups in assessment > and perhaps we can also be of assistance with some testing > recommendations for 1 or more within. I would also like to involve Mark > Jost of L21. Sandy, David, Mark and I all use different types of > analyses methods and it would be good to compare the different > information coming out of the different models. > > 4. With R-M222, I have a bias based on experience for the 67 marker > haplotypes as they generally yield the best information for analysis > plus the 111 marker haplotypes can be spotty in the projects; however I > will also be appreciative if there are 111 marker haplotypes in your > lineage/group results. If your lineage results feature mostly 37 marker > haplotypes, reviewing those is helpful but I probably will not use them > for any calculations beyond perhaps a particular lineage review. Susan > Hedeen > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear John, Members such as Bernard, Iain, Alan, Don M, Paul Duffy, Jerry Kelly are far more knowledgeable about the Gaelic Naming systems and the histories of these Clans, septs, and family groups than I am; I hope that we may marry the information of both the data and these lineage histories to better understand what we have. For my part in this presently are the haplotypes themselves. A genetic distance of 7 or 8 (sometimes more, often less depending) between haplotypes particularly with either some off modal marker matches and/or within surname can be very useful particularly if the men fall in the same SNP classification. Understandably we do not have all the SNP particulars yet...but having the groups in data base will help in further grouping once the SNP ID's are met. Would you like me to send you my exel format so that you may enter into it the groups you believe are most consistent with your result? Also if you'd like to write up a brief description included in the email returning the exel to me once filled in, the information can be attached. Susan On 11/13/2013 2:15 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Susan, > > I think that is a good idea, and you can use my data. For lineages, > what do you consider as 'authoritative' sources? Would Irish Names and > Surnames by Rev. Patrick Woulfe, and Leabhar na nGenealach be > considered something that you'd use to capture the lineage? > > Lachtna, the founder of the O'Lachtna sept was most likely brothers > to Amhlaoibh Mór mac Fir Bhisigh and Giolla Pádraig mac Fir Bhisigh, > so I am assuming that the common ancestor would be Fear Bhisigh mac > Domhnaill Óig. > > I am at 67 markers (Kit No: 218512) and sufficient far from any other > matches (closest is a Clark - private) at 5 steps. FTDNA is having a > sale, so I am not sure if 111 marker test would be useful, or > something else. > > thanks, > John > >