Using the public data bases is our only avenue to do such a demographic study; I haven't seen anything regarding a demographic of US measure for M222 which has been planned and executed solely for that purpose. Part of the reason is that Americans except for Native Americans are all immigrants. There was considerable migration into the American Colonies by the Scots and Ulster Scots during the late 1600 forward with the highest estimates from those environs during the 1st quarter of the 1700's to about the time of the American Revolution. After the Revolution there was an up-tick, but not at the numbers previous; during the 1800's there was an up-serge of Immigration from all of Ireland inclusive of Ulster, and rather steady immigration from Western Europe including the Isles thereafter. Needless to say, the stated ancestral origin of testers for genealogical purposes requests that Americans state an ancestral origin other than the US as all were immigrants. The stated claims are a mix of firm knowledge to anecdotal speculation to best guesses based on surnames. The greatest numbers of tested individuals are from this American Immigrant pool, hence there is an inherent skew from the beginning mostly due to now knowing for certain what the ancestral origin actually is beyond mostly immigration stories and surnames complicated by Ulster Scots inevitably specifying "Ireland" as ancestral because this is where their immigrants hailed from after being in residence for as long as 100 or more years in Northern Ireland due to the Plantation. The record situation in Ireland is not optimal because of record loss, so if these descendants of immigrants can get across the pond to Ireland they generally cannot get further unless they are very lucky. Furthermore because of the immigration within the Isles which has always been, recent demographic studies as to where grandfathers and great grandfathers lived may be legitimate for at best 4 generations, and with surname issues, albeit they may help, they certainly are not reliable for tracking these populations. Conclusions of any of the assessments my remain theoretical and speculative at best; however, this SNP testing is going to help to clarify things better than we have ever had to date. Personally, I believe the Isles should be treated as a region, but me thinks I am in the minority with that opinion. Many seem to want to put a national identity to the DNA. M222 bearers have a history of bi-directional migration within the Isles. New SNP discoveries are showing some clade dividing SNPs which people are testing via both FTDNA and BISDNA (Britain/Ireland/Scotland's DNA). The picture of M222 is going to radically change, and since some of the SNPs seem to have some environmental coalescence of their own, different assessments of possible ancestral origins may result. It is however, way too soon to tell, and it will be not immediate for us to have some better assessments as testing has really just commenced and the numbers will need to be collated, assessed, and further analyzed also using genealogical information to qualify these things. It will take an entire project M222 effort IMO to make the best sense of things as there are several to many very knowledgeable people regarding the ancient history, more recent history, linguistics, clan & sept specialists, and family historians who have spent near life time careers on their surname groups that have records and documentations which stretch back hundreds of years, as well as those who spend a lot of time on the DNA results themselves. All this information needs to be considered with the new information from the SNP testing results. On 11/1/2013 3:00 AM, Yair Davidiy wrote: > Are the proportions of M222 amongst descendants of Irish and Scottish > migrants in the USA any different from those found in Ireland and Scotland? > Yair Davidiy > Jerusalem > Israel > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >