Doug, I agree. There is not much sense in taking two tests simultaneously that will have a lot of overlap. You have to realize I'm a combination Czech-Irish-Scots-German-Englishman. No offense to those people, but I may get out of hand from time to time. LOL. I'm amazed at how many people have and are taking all: Geno 2, Chromo 2, WTY, FGC and Big Y. I'm not quite to that elite level of whatever that means, but I try to keep them within sight. Regards, Mike W On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:12 PM, tuulen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > @Mike W > > My background is in mechanical engineering, and so I can appreciate how > test results can vary. But there is no sense in taking two tests which > effectively duplicate each other. > > Doug > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Mike W <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I agree that the FGC test is probably the most comprehensive as far as > SNP > > discovery. > > > > However there really aren't any guarantees. I've discovered that the > > "full" Y types of tests don't really cover 100% of the Y chromosome. None > > do, but with good reasons, including impenetrable and unstable segments > of > > the chromosome and costs. It appears the definition of pseudo-full will > > change over time. The technology itself is part of the equation. Some > SNPs > > may be positioned such that the current technologies will not read them > > consistently, accurately. > > > > I have both Chromo 2 and Big Y orders in for myself. We won't really know > > what's what until we see a good number of results and can do the > > comparisons. > > > > The relative pricing between the products is probably relative to their > > value, at least generally so. Chromo 2 is built on the same technology as > > Geno 2 but is essentially a "2.1" as they were able to add more > identified > > SNPs. Ultimately, I'm not sure if the pricing isn't about right with FGC > at > > $1250, Big Y at $695, Chromo 2 (raw) at $199, Geno 2 at $159. What has > > thrown a wrench into the works is FTDNA's introductory price of $495. I > was > > not expecting that price. > > > > This reminds me of the high tech industry. There will always be vendors > > leapfrogging each other, sometimes only in promises, sometimes only by > > comparing their new version versus someone else's old. You'll probably > not > > buy just one product from any of these companies so I recommend > considering > > the company/institution itself, their long term viability, apparent > > business model, executives and technical people and succession, product > > line breadth, modularity and upgrade paths, geographic focus, support, > > matching databases, etc. etc. I am positive there will be a new package > > next year or the year that will be better than anything you have to day. > > The question is who to do business with and when? Well, at least that is > > my point of view. > > > > For genetic genealogists, I think Iain said it very well, "no SNP on the > > chip is new in any meaningful sense of the word anyway... unless the > > database also has data". In the end we don't care about many of these > > SNPs, maybe even most of them. Many will be upstream, many recurrent and > > many will be phylogenetically equivalent. That's not to say those won't > be > > useful for science in general. > > > > Regards, > > Mike W > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 1:40 AM, Iain Kennedy < > [email protected] > > >wrote: > > > > > Doug, the only thing we can say reasonably for sure right now is that > > BigY > > > isn't guaranteed to fully cover all the regions containing the Chromo2 > > > SNPs. I think that particular binary choice coupled with the tight > > deadline > > > is a difficult one to call. Some people feel they are being bounced > into > > > buying BigY at the cheap intro price unsighted, whereas with the fully > > > comprehensive FullGenomes test (which would be guaranteed to find all > the > > > Chromo2 SNPs) there was a pilot phase and later customers could talk to > > the > > > pilot testers and see their results whilst still getting the early bird > > > price. > > > > > > Iain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 20:30:44 -0500 > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] A quote from Robert Brooks Casey R1b-L21 at > yahoo > > > forum > > > > > > > > As a consumer, let me say that I am annoyed at this lack of clarity. > > At > > > > this time I have the option of taking the ScotlandsDNA Chromo2 test > > > and/or > > > > the FTDNA Big Y test, but could they essentially duplicate each > other? > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Iain Kennedy > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > This number of 'new' Geno M222 SNPs must set some kind of record > for > > > the > > > > > number of times it's changed ;-) > > > > > > > > > > It still fails to make any sense since all the ones on the diagram > > from > > > > > their talk are already on the Geno 2.0 chip (I checked each one > > > manually in > > > > > my Geno file) and no SNP on the chip is new in any meaningful sense > > of > > > the > > > > > word anyway... unless the database also has data that was obtained > by > > > some > > > > > other method than the Geno 2.0 chip which I'm not aware of. In > which > > > case > > > > > their list of SNP names was wrong. > > > > > > > > > > Not to mention the question of how they will get them through > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Mike, ha! My father was born in Scotland although of Irish descent, my mother's family was English, I spent a year living in southern Germany, and I grew up in a rural USA town populated by Czech, Polish, Russian, Ukrainian and other eastern European immigrants. They were all wonderful people. Best, Doug On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Mike W <[email protected]> wrote: > Doug, I agree. There is not much sense in taking two tests simultaneously > that will have a lot of overlap. You have to realize I'm a combination > Czech-Irish-Scots-German-Englishman. No offense to those people, but I may > get out of hand from time to time. LOL. > > I'm amazed at how many people have and are taking all: Geno 2, Chromo 2, > WTY, FGC and Big Y. I'm not quite to that elite level of whatever that > means, but I try to keep them within sight. > > Regards, > Mike W > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:12 PM, tuulen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > @Mike W > > > > My background is in mechanical engineering, and so I can appreciate how > > test results can vary. But there is no sense in taking two tests which > > effectively duplicate each other. > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Mike W <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I agree that the FGC test is probably the most comprehensive as far as > > SNP > > > discovery. > > > > > > However there really aren't any guarantees. I've discovered that the > > > "full" Y types of tests don't really cover 100% of the Y chromosome. > None > > > do, but with good reasons, including impenetrable and unstable segments > > of > > > the chromosome and costs. It appears the definition of pseudo-full > will > > > change over time. The technology itself is part of the equation. Some > > SNPs > > > may be positioned such that the current technologies will not read them > > > consistently, accurately. > > > > > > I have both Chromo 2 and Big Y orders in for myself. We won't really > know > > > what's what until we see a good number of results and can do the > > > comparisons. > > > > > > The relative pricing between the products is probably relative to their > > > value, at least generally so. Chromo 2 is built on the same technology > as > > > Geno 2 but is essentially a "2.1" as they were able to add more > > identified > > > SNPs. Ultimately, I'm not sure if the pricing isn't about right with > FGC > > at > > > $1250, Big Y at $695, Chromo 2 (raw) at $199, Geno 2 at $159. What has > > > thrown a wrench into the works is FTDNA's introductory price of $495. I > > was > > > not expecting that price. > > > > > > This reminds me of the high tech industry. There will always be vendors > > > leapfrogging each other, sometimes only in promises, sometimes only by > > > comparing their new version versus someone else's old. You'll probably > > not > > > buy just one product from any of these companies so I recommend > > considering > > > the company/institution itself, their long term viability, apparent > > > business model, executives and technical people and succession, product > > > line breadth, modularity and upgrade paths, geographic focus, support, > > > matching databases, etc. etc. I am positive there will be a new > package > > > next year or the year that will be better than anything you have to > day. > > > The question is who to do business with and when? Well, at least that > is > > > my point of view. > > > > > > For genetic genealogists, I think Iain said it very well, "no SNP on > the > > > chip is new in any meaningful sense of the word anyway... unless the > > > database also has data". In the end we don't care about many of these > > > SNPs, maybe even most of them. Many will be upstream, many recurrent > and > > > many will be phylogenetically equivalent. That's not to say those won't > > be > > > useful for science in general. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Mike W > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 1:40 AM, Iain Kennedy < > > [email protected] > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Doug, the only thing we can say reasonably for sure right now is that > > > BigY > > > > isn't guaranteed to fully cover all the regions containing the > Chromo2 > > > > SNPs. I think that particular binary choice coupled with the tight > > > deadline > > > > is a difficult one to call. Some people feel they are being bounced > > into > > > > buying BigY at the cheap intro price unsighted, whereas with the > fully > > > > comprehensive FullGenomes test (which would be guaranteed to find all > > the > > > > Chromo2 SNPs) there was a pilot phase and later customers could talk > to > > > the > > > > pilot testers and see their results whilst still getting the early > bird > > > > price. > > > > > > > > Iain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 20:30:44 -0500 > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] A quote from Robert Brooks Casey R1b-L21 at > > yahoo > > > > forum > > > > > > > > > > As a consumer, let me say that I am annoyed at this lack of > clarity. > > > At > > > > > this time I have the option of taking the ScotlandsDNA Chromo2 test > > > > and/or > > > > > the FTDNA Big Y test, but could they essentially duplicate each > > other? > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Iain Kennedy > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > This number of 'new' Geno M222 SNPs must set some kind of record > > for > > > > the > > > > > > number of times it's changed ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > It still fails to make any sense since all the ones on the > diagram > > > from > > > > > > their talk are already on the Geno 2.0 chip (I checked each one > > > > manually in > > > > > > my Geno file) and no SNP on the chip is new in any meaningful > sense > > > of > > > > the > > > > > > word anyway... unless the database also has data that was > obtained > > by > > > > some > > > > > > other method than the Geno 2.0 chip which I'm not aware of. In > > which > > > > case > > > > > > their list of SNP names was wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not to mention the question of how they will get them through > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >