David, I would pronounce it as: Mwir-kjart-ok But Melkorka looks like: Maol- ... as in tonsured, indicating a monk. So if female, a former abbess? Btw, my mother in Ireland is showing some distant Icelandic relatives, whereas my father has some Norwegian relatives - on 23andme. Cheers, Paul On Nov 6, 2013 7:04 PM, "David Maclennan" <[email protected]> wrote: > Bernard, Some time ago, I reported on my descent from Melkorka, the > daughter of an Irish king, Muirchertach MacNeill (Myrkjarten), who was > kidnapped at 15 and sold to an Icelander, Hoskuldur Dalakollsson. > I would appreciate your help or the help of anyone interested in > 10th > century Irish archives in resolving issues that are raised in my pedigree. > My grandfather¹s sister and their father, Jon Sigurdson, born in > Iceland > in 1850 and educated there, put the pedigree together in the 1920s using > information readily available to Icelanders at that time. My sources are > this pedigree, the Laxdaela Saga and the Icelandic Book of Settlements > (Landnamabok), which would have been readily available to Icelandic > speakers in the 1920s. > The Landnamabok was first compiled between 1097 and 1125 by the > priest > Ari (the learned) Thorgillson and Kolskegg the wise and later versions of > it are extant in manuscript form. A current edition of Landnamabok states: > ³When Ari and Kolskegg set to work, only 6 to 7 generations of settlers > had lived in Iceland, so it was not too difficult to gather information > even about the earliest period of Icelandic history. In many cases the > direct descendants of the original settlers were still living on the farms > where their ancestors had made their first homes in Iceland. What seems to > emerge from this is that the genealogies of people after the Settlement > seem to be trustworthy². > The Landsnamabok, unlike the Laxdaela Saga, was not conceived as a > work > of literature, but, because ³we think we can better meet the criticism of > foreigners (probably about Vikings) when they accuse us of being descended > from slaves or scoundrels, if we know for certain the truth about our > ancestry.² > So here is my earliest Icelandic/Irish pedigree: K = King; HK = > High King > Áed Finnliath (HK) Flann Sinna > (HK) 1.Kveldulfur Hersir Niall > Glúndub (HK) m Gormlaith Flann's daughter > 2.Skallagrimur Kveldulfurson Myrkjarten (Muirchertach MacNeill, > K of > Ailech) > > 3.Egil Skallagrimson Melkorka, concubine of Hoskuldur > Dalakollson > > 4.Thorgerdur Egilsdottir------wife of---Olafur Hoskuldurson > 5.Thorbjorg Olafursdottir m Asgeir Knattarson > 6.Kristjan Asgeirson > 7.Thorvaldur Kristjanson > 8.Thordur Thorvaldson > 9.Snorri Thordarson died 1193 > Egil Skallagrimson was born about 900 AD; Olaf Hoskuldon was born > about > 938 when Melkorka would have been between about 16 and 18, so she was born > around 920; Myrkjarten is reported in Wikipedia to have died in battle in > 943. > So - my questions are: is the Wikipedia entry about Muirchertach > macNeill > and his forbears and descendants accurate? What more is available in irish > archives about him? Is there any reference to his children and especially > about his daughters? > When I presented this earlier, someone asked about Icelandic > pronunciation and about whether Myrkjarten might be MacCartin. I think the > pronunciation in Icelandic actually speaks more about how the Irish > pronounced Muirchertach; Muir= Myr; chert=kjart; ach=an (a very soft > pronunciation of ach). > Another interesting point is the number of enslaved Irish and > Scottish > people who were brought to Iceland at this time. Surely some of these > people were M222+, just as Melkorka would likely have been if she were > male. They would have contributed to the Icelandic gene pool. What do we > know about M222+ people in Iceland? > David > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Paul, I have no knowledge of how Old Irish sounded in the 10th century, since I have not studied it and was not around ca. 840. My point was simply that to those Scandinavians who did actually hear Irish men and women speak at that time, including Muirchertach's daughter, Melkorka, the last 3 letters of his name sounded more like the last 2 letters in MacLennan than like the first 2 letters in O Canada (or O'Connor). Thanks for your interest! David On 2013-11-06 8:10 PM, "Paul Conroy" <[email protected]> wrote: >David, >I would pronounce it as: >Mwir-kjart-ok > >But Melkorka looks like: >Maol- ... as in tonsured, indicating a monk. So if female, a former >abbess? > >Btw, my mother in Ireland is showing some distant Icelandic relatives, >whereas my father has some Norwegian relatives - on 23andme. > >Cheers, >Paul

Paul - A colleague from Icelandic Studies at the University of Manitoba had an interesting suggestion: Spelling in Icelandic is often case and gender specific. Therefore, a name ending in a soft "sh" sound might be mistaken as feminine, whereas changing the ending to a firmer "N" might indicate masculinity. Does that make sense? David On 2013-11-06 8:10 PM, "Paul Conroy" <[email protected]> wrote: >David, >I would pronounce it as: >Mwir-kjart-ok > >But Melkorka looks like: >Maol- ... as in tonsured, indicating a monk. So if female, a former >abbess? > >Btw, my mother in Ireland is showing some distant Icelandic relatives, >whereas my father has some Norwegian relatives - on 23andme. > >Cheers, >Paul