I've been locked out of DNA-Forums for some time; just got back in with a new email address and password today. There's a lot of chatter in the forums about M222 including some in the L21 project including the admin. who think M222 originated in Scotland. In one post he cites the greater diversity found in SW Scotland. David Wilson also posted a few times. Here's part of one. "In the earliest days I thought that M222, because of its distinctive Y-STRs, might have been a really ancient line that got into Ireland soon after the last retreat of the ice. When the L21 SNP was recognized and proved to be earlier while definitely younger in absolute time, that theory was buried at the crossroads with a stake through its heart. The next question then became whether the much younger M222 group originated in Ireland. I have never believed that it had to originate there, but it obviously flourished there once it appeared. I still think it possible that the SNP originated first in the area north of where Hadrian would build his wall." Here's another one by someone who used to post frequently on the GEN-DNA list. "Its a shame we know the name of the M222 guy but not the DF23* guy. The M222 guy fits into the typical Connachta M222 clan origin. So no surprise there. Its the other guy whose surname would be interesting to know. My understanding from discussions of pre-M222 STR guys (who I would guess are good condidates for DF23*) are not from the Connaught/NW Ulster origins and they tend more to be from the SW Scottish border area with the only Irish examples being located in Leinster. Clearly the most likely origin point for M222 is where both pre-M222 and M222 are found and as far as I know that is SW Scotland, not NW Ireland. This could be wrong but that is the way it seemed when a list of pre-M222 was presented here some time ago. My hunch has long been that the shared connection between SW Scotland, NW Ireland and perhaps Leinster is the Damnoni/Dumnoni/Fir Domnainn one. I think there are hints that they by the early centuries AD if not well before were some kind of major power on the seas and with powerbases along the coasts with the name and similar names appearing in SW England, Strathclyde, Leinster and NW Connaught etc. " I just thought people in this forum would be interested to see there are quite a few different opinions out there on where M222 originated. Not all follow the NW Ireland dogma of the geneticists. We've talked about a lot them in this forum. John

NICE... DON M -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 8:27 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] DNA Forums I've been locked out of DNA-Forums for some time; just got back in with a new email address and password today. There's a lot of chatter in the forums about M222 including some in the L21 project including the admin. who think M222 originated in Scotland. In one post he cites the greater diversity found in SW Scotland. David Wilson also posted a few times. Here's part of one. "In the earliest days I thought that M222, because of its distinctive Y-STRs, might have been a really ancient line that got into Ireland soon after the last retreat of the ice. When the L21 SNP was recognized and proved to be earlier while definitely younger in absolute time, that theory was buried at the crossroads with a stake through its heart. The next question then became whether the much younger M222 group originated in Ireland. I have never believed that it had to originate there, but it obviously flourished there once it appeared. I still think it possible that the SNP originated first in the area north of where Hadrian would build his wall." Here's another one by someone who used to post frequently on the GEN-DNA list. "Its a shame we know the name of the M222 guy but not the DF23* guy. The M222 guy fits into the typical Connachta M222 clan origin. So no surprise there. Its the other guy whose surname would be interesting to know. My understanding from discussions of pre-M222 STR guys (who I would guess are good condidates for DF23*) are not from the Connaught/NW Ulster origins and they tend more to be from the SW Scottish border area with the only Irish examples being located in Leinster. Clearly the most likely origin point for M222 is where both pre-M222 and M222 are found and as far as I know that is SW Scotland, not NW Ireland. This could be wrong but that is the way it seemed when a list of pre-M222 was presented here some time ago. My hunch has long been that the shared connection between SW Scotland, NW Ireland and perhaps Leinster is the Damnoni/Dumnoni/Fir Domnainn one. I think there are hints that they by the early centuries AD if not well before were some kind of major power on the seas and with powerbases along the coasts with the name and similar names appearing in SW England, Strathclyde, Leinster and NW Connaught etc. " I just thought people in this forum would be interested to see there are quite a few different opinions out there on where M222 originated. Not all follow the NW Ireland dogma of the geneticists. We've talked about a lot them in this forum. John R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message