I put together a list of how many in the project matched the different M222 modal markers. M222 Modal Markers 390 = 25 (86.1%) 385b = 13 (95.8%) 392 = 14 (95.7%) 448 = 18 (96.6%) 449 = 30 (67.9%) 464b = 16 (87.4%) 464c = 16 (87.7%) 26-37 456 = 17 (70.1%) 607 = 16 (82.1`%) CDYa = 38 (40.8%) CDYb = 39 (54.3%) 37-67 413a = 21 (92.1%) 534 = 16 (72.9%) 481 = 25 (81.6%) 67-111 710 = 35 (40.4%) 714 = 24 (81.1%) 549 = 12 (87.8%) 712 = 22 (40%) 513 = 13 (79%) The percentages for 392 were striking. In addition to those at 14, another 23 were one step higher at 15. Other than these there were 6 at 13 and 1 at 11 (M222+, it's not a mistake).. If you added the 14 and 15 figures together you'd get 98.8% of the project with 14 or higher. You can also see why many of us distrust or do not use CDYab with it's 40% and 54% figures. The same goes for 710 and 712 in the 67-111 panel. All are barely modal. The low percentages probably correlate with fast moving markers but I have no data for many of these markers. 385b is supposed to be a fast moving marker but the percentages do not support that (90% at 13). The figure for 385a is higher with 95.8% at 11. Even 464bc, another fast moving marker, are in the 87% range, high compared to most of what follows in the 26-111 set. Overall, the strongest percentages of matches is found within the 1-25 marker set. In the 37-67 set 413a at 93.1% looks promising. For all the modal markers in the 1-25 set the overall rate is 88.1% In the other data sets there's a steep falloff partially due to markers like CDYab and 710 at 40% to 50%. But even without these the rates are considerably lower falling mostly into the 80% range with a few exceptions. I was a little surprised at the relatively low percentages for 390 (86.1%). That is mainly caused by a surprising number at 24 (73). Another 25 were 26 or higher. When I look at a sample and judge it's M222 potential I have always focused mostly on the first 25 markers. That was partly due to habit but partly due to the feeling that these markers were more instructive. David Wilson once mentioned he also focused on a marker value in the 37-67 set but I'm not sure which one he used. He was a firm believer that M222 could be accurately predicted most of the time at just 12 markers although of course he preferred more. Some on the L21 list focus on 481. That's an interesting marker because the M222 value of 25 is quite different from the AMH 23. But the matching percentage is low (81.6%). You can find these numbers online in the M222 repeat count file. It's not complete for all markers and may never be. John .

GOOD WORK JOHN: WHERE DO I COME OUT IN THIS LATEST TEST? MY HEAD IS SWIMMING! THANKS, DON M -----Original Message----- From: dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dna-r1b1c7-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lochlan@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 5:23 PM To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com Subject: [R-M222] M222 Modal Markers I put together a list of how many in the project matched the different M222 modal markers. M222 Modal Markers 390 = 25 (86.1%) 385b = 13 (95.8%) 392 = 14 (95.7%) 448 = 18 (96.6%) 449 = 30 (67.9%) 464b = 16 (87.4%) 464c = 16 (87.7%) 26-37 456 = 17 (70.1%) 607 = 16 (82.1`%) CDYa = 38 (40.8%) CDYb = 39 (54.3%) 37-67 413a = 21 (92.1%) 534 = 16 (72.9%) 481 = 25 (81.6%) 67-111 710 = 35 (40.4%) 714 = 24 (81.1%) 549 = 12 (87.8%) 712 = 22 (40%) 513 = 13 (79%) The percentages for 392 were striking. In addition to those at 14, another 23 were one step higher at 15. Other than these there were 6 at 13 and 1 at 11 (M222+, it's not a mistake).. If you added the 14 and 15 figures together you'd get 98.8% of the project with 14 or higher. You can also see why many of us distrust or do not use CDYab with it's 40% and 54% figures. The same goes for 710 and 712 in the 67-111 panel. All are barely modal. The low percentages probably correlate with fast moving markers but I have no data for many of these markers. 385b is supposed to be a fast moving marker but the percentages do not support that (90% at 13). The figure for 385a is higher with 95.8% at 11. Even 464bc, another fast moving marker, are in the 87% range, high compared to most of what follows in the 26-111 set. Overall, the strongest percentages of matches is found within the 1-25 marker set. In the 37-67 set 413a at 93.1% looks promising. For all the modal markers in the 1-25 set the overall rate is 88.1% In the other data sets there's a steep falloff partially due to markers like CDYab and 710 at 40% to 50%. But even without these the rates are considerably lower falling mostly into the 80% range with a few exceptions. I was a little surprised at the relatively low percentages for 390 (86.1%). That is mainly caused by a surprising number at 24 (73). Another 25 were 26 or higher. When I look at a sample and judge it's M222 potential I have always focused mostly on the first 25 markers. That was partly due to habit but partly due to the feeling that these markers were more instructive. David Wilson once mentioned he also focused on a marker value in the 37-67 set but I'm not sure which one he used. He was a firm believer that M222 could be accurately predicted most of the time at just 12 markers although of course he preferred more. Some on the L21 list focus on 481. That's an interesting marker because the M222 value of 25 is quite different from the AMH 23. But the matching percentage is low (81.6%). You can find these numbers online in the M222 repeat count file. It's not complete for all markers and may never be. John . R1b1c7 Research and Links: http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Remind me how you define acceptance into this project, since without that key piece of information the data below doesn't seem to mean much, to me? And of course if it's not precisely defined, the stats would mean even less. That then runs the risk that you have let some in who are further away from the modal from ones you earlier rejected. Thanks Iain ---------------------------------------- > From: Lochlan@aol.com > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 20:23:14 -0500 > To: dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com > Subject: [R-M222] M222 Modal Markers > > I put together a list of how many in the project matched the different > M222 modal markers. > > M222 Modal Markers > > 390 = 25 (86.1%) > 385b = 13 (95.8%) > 392 = 14 (95.7%) > 448 = 18 (96.6%) > 449 = 30 (67.9%) > 464b = 16 (87.4%) > 464c = 16 (87.7%) >

John, Can you please check DYS710. I have it in my notes as 16. David > From: <Lochlan@aol.com> > Reply-To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 20:23:14 -0500 (EST) > To: <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [R-M222] M222 Modal Markers > > I put together a list of how many in the project matched the different > M222 modal markers. > > M222 Modal Markers > > 390 = 25 (86.1%) > 385b = 13 (95.8%) > 392 = 14 (95.7%) > 448 = 18 (96.6%) > 449 = 30 (67.9%) > 464b = 16 (87.4%) > 464c = 16 (87.7%) > > 26-37 > > 456 = 17 (70.1%) > 607 = 16 (82.1`%) > CDYa = 38 (40.8%) > CDYb = 39 (54.3%) > > 37-67 > > 413a = 21 (92.1%) > 534 = 16 (72.9%) > 481 = 25 (81.6%) > > 67-111 > > 710 = 35 (40.4%) > 714 = 24 (81.1%) > 549 = 12 (87.8%) > 712 = 22 (40%) > 513 = 13 (79%) > > The percentages for 392 were striking. In addition to those at 14, > another 23 were one step higher at 15. Other than these there were 6 at 13 > and 1 > at 11 (M222+, it's not a mistake).. If you added the 14 and 15 figures > together you'd get 98.8% of the project with 14 or higher. > > You can also see why many of us distrust or do not use CDYab with it's 40% > and 54% figures. The same goes for 710 and 712 in the 67-111 panel. All > are barely modal. The low percentages probably correlate with fast moving > markers but I have no data for many of these markers. 385b is supposed to > be a fast moving marker but the percentages do not support that (90% at > 13). The figure for 385a is higher with 95.8% at 11. Even 464bc, another > fast > moving marker, are in the 87% range, high compared to most of what follows > in the 26-111 set. > > Overall, the strongest percentages of matches is found within the 1-25 > marker set. > > In the 37-67 set 413a at 93.1% looks promising. > > For all the modal markers in the 1-25 set the overall rate is 88.1% > > In the other data sets there's a steep falloff partially due to markers > like CDYab and 710 at 40% to 50%. But even without these the rates are > considerably lower falling mostly into the 80% range with a few exceptions. > > I was a little surprised at the relatively low percentages for 390 > (86.1%). That is mainly caused by a surprising number at 24 (73). Another > 25 > were 26 or higher. > > When I look at a sample and judge it's M222 potential I have always focused > mostly on the first 25 markers. That was partly due to habit but partly > due to the feeling that these markers were more instructive. David Wilson > once mentioned he also focused on a marker value in the 37-67 set but I'm > not sure which one he used. He was a firm believer that M222 could be > accurately predicted most of the time at just 12 markers although of course > he > preferred more. > > Some on the L21 list focus on 481. That's an interesting marker because > the M222 value of 25 is quite different from the AMH 23. But the matching > percentage is low (81.6%). > > You can find these numbers online in the M222 repeat count file. It's not > complete for all markers and may never be. > > > John > > > > > . > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links: > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DNA-R1B1C7-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message